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      06-12-2011, 08:28 AM   #1
rogbmw
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Speculation.....

One has to remember in this age of the internet, "HYPE' is just that. From day one BMW said that the 1M would be a limited production vehicle.

One also has to remember that in the US (not necessarily the same as other countries), Model Year does not equal Production Year (just try importing a euro car into the US).

BMW has always said that the N54 used in the 1M is certified only through the end of calendar year 2011. Maybe there is something to the fact that according to the BMW M brief at the launch of the 1M, BMW said they changed some very small internals (ie - piston rings) in the motor inside the 1M - which is supposedly different than the motor in the Z4. Maybe this is true - maybe not. But - this would be one reason why the 1M will not be offered past 12/2011.

For those of you that do not know - there was another limited production M vehicle that ended US production because of just such an emissions certification issue - the 1994-1995 850 CSi. The S70 V12 in the 850 CSi was the lowest production number motor which has ever been made by BMW Motorsport for BMW M cars, and did not meet US OBD2 requirements after the end of 1995 - hence no 1996 models were sold in the US. BMW only imported 225 examples of the 850 CSi to the US, and only produced 1510 examples worldwide.

Another thing - why would BMW produce a vehicle after the normal MY 2011 run is over (as is evident that 2012 models are being produced alongside the 2011 1M), and still call it a MY 2011, not a 2012? Probably the fact is that the data given by BMW that the specific N54 used in the 1M is not certified past 12/2011 - hence they can not call it a 2012.

So - many may speculate as to "what if" or "how many" or "when ever" with regard to production. But - the fact is that as of now - according to BMW - we know that production of the 1M will end at the end of 2011.

You never know what "may" happen in the future - but just remember - anyone can say anything and "speculate" on this or any other board or discussion group. But...it does not necessarily meant it it the gospel truth.

Now....I think I'm going to go and take a drive.............
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      06-12-2011, 08:50 AM   #2
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      06-12-2011, 11:45 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogbmw View Post
For those of you that do not know - there was another limited production M vehicle that ended US production because of just such an emissions certification issue - the 1994-1995 850 CSi. The S70 V12 in the 850 CSi was the lowest production number motor which has ever been made by BMW Motorsport for BMW M cars, and did not meet US OBD2 requirements after the end of 1995 - hence no 1996 models were sold in the US. BMW only imported 225 examples of the 850 CSi to the US, and only produced 1510 examples worldwide.
Remember also the E46 M3 CSL approx. eight years ago: a one-off exclusive too (1383 cars in two metallic colors only) which - except if mistaken - was even never officially released to the North American market. The CSL was short-lived despite popular demand and excellent reviews. BMW fared well, image wise, with that brief M exercise, alike the 1M market wise: due to all its accolades it currently further strengthens BMW's fanbase and loyalty of M enthusiasts, paving the road for the future M2.

Hence, IMHO, except if BMW Germany is currently overwhelmed by a truly extraordinary massive demand, the end of this year will be the final curtain call for the E82 1M. Time to move over for the future by then. For now it's (car) history in the making.

Well, the least which can be said is that this time, unlike the CSL, the North American market was not denied the limited edition 1M.
...and 1383 x 2 = 2766.
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      06-12-2011, 12:18 PM   #4
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The other unknown variable is the amount of excess capacity available to increase production before the end of the year. If the demand is there, and they're getting MSRP, can/will they bump up production to meet it?
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      06-12-2011, 12:40 PM   #5
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rogbmw - I agree with everything you said, except...

BMW never called the S70 V12 in the 850 CSi an //M model. The 850 CSi engine did say: Powered by //M - on it though.


One nice thing about the Germans is they don't get caught up into this Model Year game. When car shopping people ask what is the buid date, so they know the specs of the car. And they also go by the first date teh car was registered - IF it is a used or demo car.


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      06-12-2011, 12:48 PM   #6
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I can't understand how they are making 2012 1 series on the same assembly line then 2011 1Ms? They look indentical including the new headlights which are 2012 headlights? BMW is getting more bizarre by the day. They have dropped the previous nonmenclature.....325 for 3 series 2.5L, etc. They are putting M badges on trucks...not one truck but two or three. They are doing this to the 1M, then renaming the 1M...2M, rolling out FWD....

Gentlemen, there are dark clouds brewing here IMO. BMW has gotten too big..they are losing their way. They are undermining the things that got them here and their decisions don't make sense. Despite the first post, Dr. Kay said the 1M will NOT be a limited production! And now what do we have? It's as if there is turmoil and confusion at BMW.
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      06-12-2011, 01:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
rogbmw - I agree with everything you said, except...

BMW never called the S70 V12 in the 850 CSi an //M model. The 850 CSi engine did say: Powered by //M - on it though.


One nice thing about the Germans is they don't get caught up into this Model Year game. When car shopping people ask what is the buid date, so they know the specs of the car. And they also go by the first date teh car was registered - IF it is a used or demo car.


Dackel
Research shows the 850 CSi VIN actually designates the car as being produced by BMW Motorsport. The beginning of the BMW 850 CSi VIN starts with WBSEG - which at the time was the BMW Vin designation for cars specifically produced by BMW Motorsports. Also, the S70 V12 engine was actually specifically produced by BMW Motorsport. Many German registration forms list the 850 CSi as a M8, although there was one car actually designated the M8 by BMW - the prototype is still owned by BMW.

My first BMW - purchased while stationed overseas in the Navy, was a 1973 3.0 Cs. The european registration said the car was a 1975 even though the car was produced by BMW in 1973. I don't know if it is still true - but then the car was said to be the model year when it was sold, not produced. When I brought it back to the US, I had to have the year changed on the Title to reflect the production date of the car.

I personally like a driver's oriented car - hence the purchase of the 1M. It will be my daily car - our Alpina B12 will be the weekend garage queen.

I started the tread because there was so much speculation on "what if" and "how many". Bottom line - I like the review the car has had now that it is out, and I can't wait to start driving mine all the time.
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      06-12-2011, 03:02 PM   #8
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Another point to consider.
High demand unfortunately also attracts opportunists who are merely concerned by making a quick buck, rather than getting genuine driving pleasure: ordering/buying and immediate putting up for sale the car (or an allocation spot) at a significant markup.
As an M enthusiast, it is sad to read that some US forum members already reported on their dreadful experiences that some dealers seem to contribute creating the scarce 1M availability hype: snatching all available 1M allocations and subsequently offer the 1M's they spec'ed with a markup. 1M's are not prohibitively expensive enough for avoiding any such (re)sale gambles. One of the downsides of the free market supply and demand principles.
IMHO BMW does not approve practices which artificially lock up the market and frustrate genuine potential customers, as competing car manufacturers are on the prow to attract those customers. However, I do not see BMW contractually embargoing resale options for a buyer in order to refrain purely speculative buyers (after all, it's a car company, no charity institution).
So, a production increase maybe ? I can imagine BMW Germany is not insensitive to the 1M success and reviews, and therefore likely to be looking into the option of a production increase if technically feasible as to work capacity and 1M components availability in the time window ending in December 2011. However, I doubt BMW will stretch the time window into 2012. On the one hand BMW stated that there will be no 2012 production run. On the other hand I did nowhere read that a production increase in 2011 is a taboo. For example a BMW Australia representative told the review Car Advice recently: "BMW in Munich has been under constant pressure since we announced the car for the Australian market, and we’re pleased that overwhelming customer demand has meant we’re able to offer more cars to our dealers."
Just my 2 eurocents.
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      06-12-2011, 03:48 PM   #9
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogbmw View Post
Research shows the 850 CSi VIN actually designates the car as being produced by BMW Motorsport. The beginning of the BMW 850 CSi VIN starts with WBSEG - which at the time was the BMW Vin designation for cars specifically produced by BMW Motorsports. Also, the S70 V12 engine was actually specifically produced by BMW Motorsport. Many German registration forms list the 850 CSi as a M8, although there was one car actually designated the M8 by BMW - the prototype is still owned by BMW.

My first BMW - purchased while stationed overseas in the Navy, was a 1973 3.0 Cs. The european registration said the car was a 1975 even though the car was produced by BMW in 1973. I don't know if it is still true - but then the car was said to be the model year when it was sold, not produced. When I brought it back to the US, I had to have the year changed on the Title to reflect the production date of the car.

I personally like a driver's oriented car - hence the purchase of the 1M. It will be my daily car - our Alpina B12 will be the weekend garage queen.

I started the tread because there was so much speculation on "what if" and "how many". Bottom line - I like the review the car has had now that it is out, and I can't wait to start driving mine all the time.
Ok, I did not know that about the VIN. very interesting BMW folk lore.

It is true about German registration papers. They are still done this way, like you said.

Most (German) people go by the build date. Called: BauJahr (Bj.) in German. This is the date (dd.mm.yyyy) that the car was made. Then they also like to know when was the car first registered: erstezulassung (eZ.) All this info (and more!) is on every German car regsitration papers called a Fahrzeugschein and Fahrzeugbrief. The brief is more like a title, but in fact you need both in order to tranfer ownership to another person.

I have attached two Examples/Muster's of the car papers used today in Germany...

Name:  fahrzueg_zulassungsbescheinigung_teil_1.jpg
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Size:  279.9 KB

Name:  Fahrzeugbrief1.jpg
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Size:  140.1 KB



And also... here are some tastey BMW cars from your past...

From the KlassikWelt BodenSee Messe last year...




















more photos here...

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...kWelt+BodenSee


I hope that was a blast from your past!


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      06-12-2011, 11:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post

Gentlemen, there are dark clouds brewing here IMO. BMW has gotten too big..they are losing their way. They are undermining the things that got them here and their decisions don't make sense. Despite the first post, Dr. Kay said the 1M will NOT be a limited production! And now what do we have? It's as if there is turmoil and confusion at BMW.
He said not limited BUT HARD TO GET. Limited would mean they expected to produce X number of units then they stop. They havent announced a number of units, some estimates yes, but this leaves room to increase production to meet demand if they decide to.
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      06-13-2011, 08:53 AM   #11
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The replacement to the current 1 Series is just about to depute.

http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539990

It uses the F20 platform and will be a Larger car overall, some speculation has it being labeled the 2 Series. This car is due out for 2013, with a new M Model due out sometime in 2014. No M cars for the 1 -2 series from Jan of 2012 to sometime in 2014. Current model 1 Series except for 1M are selling as 2012's.

1M finishes up Dec 31, 2011.
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