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      09-27-2011, 11:05 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marconi118 View Post
Is this for N54?????
Yes it is!!!!!!!
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      09-27-2011, 11:33 AM   #46
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Would Stage 2 be advised for prolonged (10+ hour) 80-90mph interstate travel, with occasional sprints over 100?
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      09-27-2011, 11:47 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by pghollysprings View Post
Hey all,
Just ordered power kit ver 1 for $599 ...total $747.50 installed at Valley Auto World Fayetteville, NC. Installed price is on their web site:
http://www.valleyautoworldbmw.com/
Guys - BMW updated all their dealer website to include this price ($747.50 installed). If any dealer charges you more they are price gouging. This price does not include tax.
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      09-27-2011, 02:01 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Pangloss View Post
Would Stage 2 be advised for prolonged (10+ hour) 80-90mph interstate travel, with occasional sprints over 100?
unnecessary.
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      09-27-2011, 02:04 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by tzsgti View Post
Guys - BMW updated all their dealer website to include this price ($747.50 installed). If any dealer charges you more they are price gouging. This price does not include tax.
Hmmm... when did that happen?
My dealer is still at $815.
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      09-27-2011, 06:18 PM   #50
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unnecessary.
Thanks for the fast reply.
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      09-28-2011, 04:27 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icabod7 View Post
Awesome -- thanks for the review, Govenator.

I'm really interested in this option, but I have what may be a stupid question -- if I get the PPK Stage 1 (software only) and I get Cobb later on, will Cobb overwrite the PPK? In other words, are the tunes "stackable"?
I e-mailed cobb with this same question. Their reply was that the AP would store your PPK update. If you did an uninstall of the cobb tune your ECU would return to stock configuration with the PPK update intact.
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      09-28-2011, 09:33 AM   #52
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Would love to see a dyno of this with a catless downpipe.
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      09-28-2011, 01:25 PM   #53
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This is only for US market? What about us in Europe, any information?
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      09-28-2011, 04:20 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Fasst1 View Post
I e-mailed cobb with this same question. Their reply was that the AP would store your PPK update. If you did an uninstall of the cobb tune your ECU would return to stock configuration with the PPK update intact.
To answer the question more directly: software is not "stackable" like a coupon. He's been on sleakdeals for too long.
If it were, you'd just keep staking one on top of the other and you'd get infinite power.
3rd party tuners take a snapshot of a particular version of BMW software, say version 4.3, and make their changes on that version.
It's a nice feature to "image" what you have and save that in memory before uploading their version on your car. That allows you to "undo" the tune and revert to what you had before going to the dealer for whatever reason.
However, the other way around isn't addressed.
Suppose BMW loads software version 4.4 in your car to fix the problem you are complaining about.
Now you can't just reload the 3rd party tuner's software when you get home. You'd undo the fix the dealer made.
Your tuner software is now useless, and you'll have to wait for your tuner to take a snapshot of version 4.4 and port their changes over, and hopefully give it to you for free.
That is the main disadvantage I see with going non OEM.

Last edited by MPBK; 09-28-2011 at 04:27 PM.
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      09-28-2011, 04:31 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzsgti View Post
Guys - BMW updated all their dealer website to include this price ($747.50 installed). If any dealer charges you more they are price gouging. This price does not include tax.
Hmmm... when did that happen?
My dealer is still at $815.
anyone can confirm the post by Mr. tzsgti?
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      09-28-2011, 04:42 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
To answer the question more directly: software is not "stackable" like a coupon. He's been on sleakdeals for too long.
If it were, you'd just keep staking one on top of the other and you'd get infinite power.
3rd party tuners take a snapshot of a particular version of BMW software, say version 4.3, and make their changes on that version.
It's a nice feature to "image" what you have and save that in memory before uploading their version on your car. That allows you to "undo" the tune and revert to what you had before going to the dealer for whatever reason.
However, the other way around isn't addressed.
Suppose BMW loads software version 4.4 in your car to fix the problem you are complaining about.
Now you can't just reload the 3rd party tuner's software when you get home. You'd undo the fix the dealer made.
Your tuner software is now useless, and you'll have to wait for your tuner to take a snapshot of version 4.4 and port their changes over, and hopefully give it to you for free.
That is the main disadvantage I see with going non OEM.
Thanks for the explanation -- it's a lot clearer to me now.

So does this mean that Cobb most likely has not made their tune based on the "snapshot" of cars with the PPK software?
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      09-28-2011, 04:43 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
anyone can confirm the post by Mr. tzsgti?
The dealer websites I've looked at all xfer to shopbmwusa.com and give you a different price for every dealer.

I've seen as much as a $300 difference in the installed version 2 package. I suppose this reflects their individual markup/costs.
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      09-28-2011, 06:24 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singular View Post
The dealer websites I've looked at all xfer to shopbmwusa.com and give you a different price for every dealer.

I've seen as much as a $300 difference in the installed version 2 package. I suppose this reflects their individual markup/costs.
exactly.
I wonder where he pulled that piece of rumor from.
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      09-28-2011, 06:49 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icabod7 View Post
Thanks for the explanation -- it's a lot clearer to me now.

So does this mean that Cobb most likely has not made their tune based on the "snapshot" of cars with the PPK software?
You seem to be stuck with the idea that an engine can produce infinite power, and it's up to the software to pull that power out.
That's not the case.
Unless you can change the hardware as well, software can only do so much.
Let me give you a simplistic and not very accurate picture, in the hopes of making it easier to see the big picture.
Imagine a control panel that's wired to an engine. This panel controls all aspects of the engine operation. This panel is full of buttons, each graduated from -5 to +5. Each button controls one parameter in the engine, say a button might control the fuel/air mixture, another might control the time when spark plugs fire, etc.
Often times, the parameters are interrelated, and optimal engine performance depends on (the art of) finding the best position for each knob, given the position of all the other knobs.

Say BMW delivers this panel (or the software version of it) with all buttons in the center position (position 0).
Suppose you crank the fuel/air mixtrure button a couple of notches (to position +2). You notice that HP increases, but you may also notice that fuel economy suffers.
Well, a tuner like Cobb, whose purpose is to maximize HP and couldn't care less about fuel economy, might crank that knob up to +5. They sell that version to you.
Now let's say that BMW found some other way to control fuel economy. As a result, they can afford to turn that button up to position +2. They sell that new version as the PPK.
Your question is: if Cobb took this new BMW setting (or +2), can they now crank it up to +7? There is no +7. We're not changing hardware, remember?
Even if they revised their version, Cobb's software would probably deliver less of an increment over the BMW+PPK version, because they have already maxed out in their previous version.
Unless, of course, Cobb finds that they didn't really max out. That's a different story.
Hope this helps.
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      09-28-2011, 07:02 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
You seem to be stuck with the idea that an engine can produce infinite power, and it's up to the software to pull that power out.
That's not the case.
Unless you can change the hardware as well, software can only do so much.
Let me give you a simplistic and not very accurate picture, in the hopes of making it easier to see the big picture.
Imagine a control panel that's wired to an engine. This panel controls all aspects of the engine operation. This panel is full of buttons, each graduated from -5 to +5. Each button controls one parameter in the engine, say a button might control the fuel/air mixture, another might control the time when spark plugs fire, etc.
Often times, the parameters are interrelated, and optimal engine performance depends on (the art of) finding the best position for each knob, given the position of all the other knobs.

Say BMW delivers this panel (or the software version of it) with all buttons in the center position (position 0).
Suppose you crank the fuel/air mixtrure button a couple of notches (to position +2). You notice that HP increases, but you may also notice that fuel economy suffers.
Well, a tuner like Cobb, whose purpose is to maximize HP and couldn't care less about fuel economy, might crank that knob up to +5. They sell that version to you.
Now let's say that BMW found some other way to control fuel economy. As a result, they can afford to turn that button up to position +2. They sell that new version as the PPK.
Your question is: if Cobb took this new BMW setting (or +2), can they now crank it up to +7? There is no +7. We're not changing hardware, remember?
Even if they revised their version, Cobb's software would probably deliver less of an increment over the BMW+PPK version, because they have already maxed out in their previous version.
Unless, of course, Cobb finds that they didn't really max out. That's a different story.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the explanation, but I'm really not stuck on the idea than an engine can produce infinite power. Really, I'm not.

All I was getting at is this: You mentioned that tuners use a snapshot of the engine software to base their tunes. So, like in your example, if you get a software update from the dealership that's a version higher, then, according to you, your tune may be useless because "you can't just reload the 3rd party tuner's software when you get home. You'd undo the fix the dealer made. Your tuner software is now useless, and you'll have to wait for your tuner to take a snapshot of version 4.4 and port their changes over."

So my question is simply will Cobb's tune work for cars with the PPK software version? Or will we, as you put it, have to wait for the tuner (i.e. Cobb) to get a snapshot of this version of software?

Notice I am not asking if its possible to combine the power of the PPK and the tune. Doesn't work like that, got it.
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      09-28-2011, 07:42 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icabod7 View Post
Thanks for the explanation, but I'm really not stuck on the idea than an engine can produce infinite power. Really, I'm not.

All I was getting at is this: You mentioned that tuners use a snapshot of the engine software to base their tunes. So, like in your example, if you get a software update from the dealership that's a version higher, then, according to you, your tune may be useless because "you can't just reload the 3rd party tuner's software when you get home. You'd undo the fix the dealer made. Your tuner software is now useless, and you'll have to wait for your tuner to take a snapshot of version 4.4 and port their changes over."

So my question is simply will Cobb's tune work for cars with the PPK software version? Or will we, as you put it, have to wait for the tuner (i.e. Cobb) to get a snapshot of this version of software?

Notice I am not asking if its possible to combine the power of the PPK and the tune. Doesn't work like that, got it.
I'll give you one example: I've heard that to fix the infamous high pressure fuel valve issue, which you'd think involves only a redesigned fuel valve, BMW also downloads a new version of the software as part of that fix.
Say you have the Cobb software. You go in for a HPFV issue. They download new software, overriding your Cobb.
You'd think... no problems, I'll just go home and download the Cobb software again. If you did that, you'd lose the software changes for the new HPFV they installed, which could render the valve worse than before. Realizing that, you don't want to reinstall the Cobb software. That's why I say it's useless... not that you can't. You won't want to.
You'll want to wait for Cobb to take a new snapshot of the BMW software with the HPFV fix, and then migrate their performance maps onto it.
Capiche?
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      09-28-2011, 07:56 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
I'll give you one example: I've heard that to fix the infamous high pressure fuel valve issue, which you'd think involves only a redesigned fuel valve, BMW also downloads a new version of the software as part of that fix.
Say you have the Cobb software. You go in for a HPFV issue. They download new software, overriding your Cobb.
You'd think... no problems, I'll just go home and download the Cobb software again. If you did that, you'd lose the software changes for the new HPFV they installed, which could render the valve worse than before. Realizing that, you don't want to reinstall the Cobb software. That's why I say it's useless... not that you can't. You won't want to.
You'll want to wait for Cobb to take a new snapshot of the BMW software with the HPFV fix, and then migrate their performance maps onto it.
Capiche?
Did you just ignore my above post? I'm asking if Cobb works with a car that has been flashed with the PPK. It's a specific question (not necessarily to you) that requires no analogies. So please no more examples, everyone gets what you're saying.
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      09-28-2011, 08:57 PM   #63
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If you cared to pay attention to what I said, you'd be able to easily make a conclusion.
I'll let others address your ever changing question.
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      09-28-2011, 11:11 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbolader View Post
First off, welcome

I suspect the reason why most people are not going for this is that it gives you no extra power, but costs a lot more for parts, and even more for installation (Since it's a lot more than just updating the ECU).

The following statements are generalizations I've seen since I joined -- I'm far from an expert since I don't track my car...

That being said, many people here who do track their cars run into limp mode issues pretty easily depending on the track, the driver skill, mods, and weather. Some attribute this to oil temperature, and some attribute it to water temperature. While both fluids do cool the engine, coolant is the preferred method for cooling.

When it comes to keeping the cooling in check for track duty or for lower/more consistent temps in a hot area, the best way to do this is to upgrade the cooling system. You can do this with a better primary radiator (best bet, but expensive) or you can add another smaller radiator to the system (What "Stage 2" does). Further, even if you do add a better primary radiator, you are still using the stock fan motor. The Stage 2 adds a more powerful fan motor to further assist in cooling.

In the end, stage2 is ...IMO... for more consistent performance, not for "more" performance.

I consider it a great deal only because anytime you can buy a BMW radiator, some BMW hoses and a new BMW Hi-Po Radiator fan for (only) $1200, it's a good deal to me.

I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet that a better primary radiator costs more than $1200 by itself.
Thanks. I've seen posts on the install price of Stage 1. Does anyone have an install price for Stage 2?
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      09-29-2011, 12:37 AM   #65
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Thanks. I've seen posts on the install price of Stage 1. Does anyone have an install price for Stage 2?
Varies per dealership, but I've seen a range of $2200 to $2500 installed.
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      09-29-2011, 06:18 AM   #66
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Any online vendors selling the kits at these prices yet?
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