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      10-03-2011, 12:11 PM   #1
D[128i]T
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Heel-toe nearly impossible!

Hi guys,

after a couple months with my new 1series, I continue to find it EXTREMELY difficult to heel-toe. Mostly because I find the accelerator is too low compared to the brake pedal. I have grown far too accustomed to Japanese cars which I have always owned before my 1series.

After some searching I have found "ultimatepedals" but it looks like they only offer extensions on the side rather than a height extension

Anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Mike
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      10-03-2011, 12:38 PM   #2
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I don't "heel-toe" in BMWs, but I do rev-match on downshifts... it's more like left side of the foot on the brake, right side on the gas (rather than heel on gas, toe on brake, or vice versa). Having owned an S2000, I know what you mean about the pedals... you could "heel-toe" in that car, not so much on BMWs because of how the pedals are setup. You just need to readjust to the car!
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      10-03-2011, 12:43 PM   #3
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Look at "Ultimate Pedals" heal/toe extentions.
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      10-03-2011, 12:54 PM   #4
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I find it extremely easy to heal toe in a 135i. My old car which was a 2000 audi s4 was much much harder.
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      10-03-2011, 12:56 PM   #5
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BMW has some of the best pedal position for heel and toe shifting, compared to VW for example which has them too close together.
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      10-03-2011, 01:28 PM   #6
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I just role my foot instead of heel toe.
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      10-03-2011, 01:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxtyp3 View Post
I just role my foot instead of heel toe.
yup, roll* my foot over
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      10-03-2011, 02:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
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yup, roll* my foot over
Yap, sori por da taypo.
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      10-03-2011, 03:04 PM   #9
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rolling is very easy to do but it won't work on the track. when you are standing on the brakes the pedal is way lower than the gas pedal to be able to roll onto. heel and toe is very easy if you have a flexible ankle. just twist your heel while you are braking and tap the gas pedal when you down shift.

btw, ultimate pedals are great pedals. word of caution, when you install the pedals make sure to grind down the tips of the screws. had a freaky accident at the track last week. pedal got stuck when the throttle was mashed down. the sharp screw got logged in the plastic backing. pretty scary situation if you have no idea what caused the throttle to get stuck
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      10-03-2011, 03:55 PM   #10
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I roll to blip the throttle on downshifts of both my Japanese SUV and my 128i vert. The bimmer is significantly easier because the pedals are closer together. I have noticed that the brake position on a hard stop is lower, however, but the blip of the throttle needs to be greater since I am trying to carry more rpm if I am braking that hard. I am not good at it at the track but I can do it. I need more practice. I suppose it depends some on how wide your feet (and shoe) are. I wear an 11D but I've noticed some of my shoes are wider than others.
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      10-03-2011, 04:46 PM   #11
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Last time I tried to help someone with this, he insisted his ankle was too stiff to turn inward to the brake or roll outward to the gas. But I proved to myself that I can easily do it without moving my ankle at all. And I have small feet.

So try this. Just put the left half of your foot, or just your big toe, on the brake pedal, and keep your ankle firm. When you press down on the brake, the right side of your foot is going to touch the gas pedal, because it has nowhere else to go. Now roll your entire leg by moving your knee to the right. That will roll the right side of your your foot into the gas pedal. You already know that you only need a slight little blip, so there's no contortion at all. Also, since you're keeping your ankle firm using just upper leg muscles for everything, you will feel very strong on the brake.
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      10-03-2011, 04:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelblue View Post
rolling is very easy to do but it won't work on the track. when you are standing on the brakes the pedal is way lower than the gas pedal to be able to roll onto. heel and toe is very easy if you have a flexible ankle. just twist your heel while you are braking and tap the gas pedal when you down shift.

btw, ultimate pedals are great pedals. word of caution, when you install the pedals make sure to grind down the tips of the screws. had a freaky accident at the track last week. pedal got stuck when the throttle was mashed down. the sharp screw got logged in the plastic backing. pretty scary situation if you have no idea what caused the throttle to get stuck
It wasn't that hard for me because when I press on the brakes the point where it engage is almost if not in level with the gas pedal already. It only takes a little bit of practice and feel.
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      10-03-2011, 05:34 PM   #13
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No matter how you do it, it's still called "heel-and-toe," and I find the pedals in the 1er to be pretty nicely placed for it.
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      10-03-2011, 06:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
No matter how you do it, it's still called "heel-and-toe," and I find the pedals in the 1er to be pretty nicely placed for it.
+1.
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      10-03-2011, 07:07 PM   #15
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Actually, ignore my first post. This is my opinion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by D[128i]T View Post
I have grown far too accustomed to Japanese cars which I have always owned before my 1series.
Sit in your driveway with the parking brake on and the shifter in neutral. Put your foot on the brake and press. Now look down at your foot and figure out how to blip the throttle. Okay, now you know how.
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      10-03-2011, 07:12 PM   #16
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check this out:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223274

you probably don't need the lifter plate, I found out that actually adds too much "height" to the gas pedal, and you'll hit the gas VERY easily when you hit the brakes.

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      10-04-2011, 06:25 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
No matter how you do it, it's still called "heel-and-toe," and I find the pedals in the 1er to be pretty nicely placed for it.
+2

Although I drive a DCT so have no need to heel-toe, I test drove a few manual 135i's before I went with the DCT. I always heel-toe in every manual I drive and the 1er was no different (or I should say no harder - because every car is different). The only thing I'd say would make heel-toeing easier would be less sensitive brakes - with the sensitive brakes on the 135 every slight movement of your foot toward the accelerator tends to change the braking effort you are applying making it a slightly jerky affair.
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      10-04-2011, 06:48 AM   #18
D[128i]T
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Hey guys thanks for the responses!

I usually wear my puma shoes when driving. My shoe sizes vary from 8.5 to 9 (US) depending on the brand. So I dont know if that has anything with my not being able to heel toe properly in german cars.

thanks for the link akak1997! That thread was something exactly what im looking for. Love the design of the Rennline pedals. I may have to get myself a set.
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      10-04-2011, 06:54 AM   #19
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I find the 135 fairly easy to heel-toe, but the sensitive brakes make it very jerky at lower speeds. As stated, the brake pedal is pressure sensitive and when I heel-toe while not driving aggressively, it is hard to be smooth. My 135 brakes are so sensitive, it is hard to stop smoothly even without heel-toeing.
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      10-04-2011, 07:29 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the snake View Post
I find the 135 fairly easy to heel-toe, but the sensitive brakes make it very jerky at lower speeds. As stated, the brake pedal is pressure sensitive and when I heel-toe while not driving aggressively, it is hard to be smooth. My 135 brakes are so sensitive, it is hard to stop smoothly even without heel-toeing.
Exactly! It's a lot easier and smoother to heel and toe and slow for a turn from 130mph then it is from 45mph. In a high performance situation, that is at speed, you can press the brake pedal to its firm spot and use that as a solid platform to rock your heel towards the gas pedal. If you press the brake firmly enough to find a firm spot in city traffic at low speeds, then braking distances, brake pad life and tire wear will be very short.

Nonetheless, if you expect to be proficient at track days or club racing, it helps immensely to practice.

Remember, brake pads are less expensive and easier to replace than a clutch and/or transmission. Decelerating for a turn should be done with the brakes only.
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      10-04-2011, 08:37 AM   #21
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I find all non M BMW brakes to be grabby. The initial brake bite is very strong, possibly designed for safety. On the highways if you touch the brakes the car will go BOOM from the initial bite.

However, once you get into an M car, the brakes feel a lot more linear without a strong first bite that'll catch you. But you gotta know how to use it.. If you apply pressure the same way you did in a non M car you'll run into something. I know I almost did in Munich xD
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      10-04-2011, 09:01 AM   #22
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I never turn my foot completely sideways, I am not that flexible, but I sometimes put my foot at an angle, especially in my SUV, to effectively widen my foot and better engage both pedals. With narrow shoes in my SUV I need to do this. Those with smaller feet might need to do something like this in the bimmer. When I do it, my heel is firmly on the brake and my ball to toe is on the gas. I still kind of roll my foot to apply a little gas.

This is a bit off topic but I think BMW may use the electronic cut out of the gas if the brake is applied (after a few seconds) because their pedals are relatively close together. They didn't want lawsuits over "unintended acceleration" like Audi and more recently Toyota got hit with.

Jim
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