Non-hubcentric rims - BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)

Knightelf · 02-06-2013, 10:25 PM

I bought a set of non-hubcentric rims from another member. I've ordered hub rings which should arrive soon.

No issues with wheel clearance and I've had a guard roll.

The issue is that, I found a strange noise on the front left wheel after putting them on. The noise only happens sometimes at very low speeds (e.g. stuck in traffic jam) and with my foot OFF the brake pedal. Sounds like the wheel hub/rotor creaking or grinding on something. Definitely not normal.

Took it back to the tyre shop next day and they told me somethings wrong with the rotors because the wheel doesn't spin freely when they jack it up. It gets "stuck" on some points. They said there's no way the wheel install caused it.

I took it to BMW, who then replaced all by brake pads on warranty. Well, as I suspected that didn't fix anything (although I got new brake pads for free).

Any ideas? Could the tyre shop have screwed up my rotors when they put on my wheels?

froop · 02-06-2013, 11:28 PM

Unless they dropped it onto the rotor with no wheel mounted I wouldn't think so.

Knightelf · 02-06-2013, 11:44 PM

These guys were recommended on the forum and seems to know what they're doing so I didn't think it was their fault. However, it's just strange how the issue popped up on the day that I changed wheels.

I'm taking it to another dealership on Tuesday, so hopefully they can find the problem.

Ian///M · 02-07-2013, 12:00 AM

Wheel bearing?

John_01 · 02-07-2013, 12:45 AM

Sounds like a brake caliper / pad / disc issue, maybe unrelated to the wheels. The disc should normally rotate freely when the car is jacked.

Sometimes its possible for the brake discs to be out of round if the lug bolts are severely overtightened. Maybe that's possible in your case but I wouldn't want to accuse anyone until you have evidence.

Knightelf · 02-07-2013, 12:48 AM

Re brakes or bearings... could be either, but it only happens at speeds of under 20km/h and only intermittently. I think it's a brake issue (hope they don't blame it on my wheels).

The wheels were put on & removed 3 times now so they couldn't have over-tightened it every time, and only happens on 1 wheel.

Ian///M · 02-07-2013, 02:17 AM

Have you tried swapping the front wheels left with right?

froop · 02-07-2013, 05:46 AM

Actually, it could be a stone trapped between the rotor and the dust shield. Have you checked that yet? We had that happen at the snowy mountains 1000 due to all the gravel.

Knightelf · 02-07-2013, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by froop

Actually, it could be a stone trapped between the rotor and the dust shield. Have you checked that yet? We had that happen at the snowy mountains 1000 due to all the gravel.

Yep checked already, different sound

I've had that stone issue once before

Knightelf · 02-12-2013, 06:41 PM

This is driving me nuts. BMW says they can't find what's wrong and cannot replicate the sound. The grinding noise ONLY happens after the car is warmed up so I guess that's why they can't hear it. The noise is pretty frequent after a highway run and can get pretty loud. They're trying to tell me "noise is normal" on a 135i.

Do you think it could be caused by using the stock bolts? as opposed to the Enkei bolts (which I don't have). The wheel uses a 5x120 pattern of course.

John_01 · 02-12-2013, 07:00 PM

You wrote before the wheel doesn't turn freely when the car is jacked up. Is it right? If that is still the case, it should be too hard for them to find the problem. I am wondering if maybe they aren't very motivated to identify this issue.

When you hear the noise, try lightly touching the brakes. If the noise changes then its likely to be a brake problem - Personally I suspect it is.

Knightelf · 02-12-2013, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_01

You wrote before the wheel doesn't turn freely when the car is jacked up. Is it right? If that is still the case, it should be too hard for them to find the problem. I am wondering if maybe they aren't very motivated to identify this issue.

When you hear the noise, try lightly touching the brakes. If the noise changes then its likely to be a brake problem - Personally I suspect it is.

The wheel wasn't turning freely when my tyre guy inspected it, I haven't checked since. It may be that it only happens when the car is warm. I can tell BMW doesn't want to deal with it since they think it's not a big issue, but this noise is definitely not normal.

What the noise feels like is that something is stuck and as I take my foot off the break, the rotor does not want to move so it makes a grinding noise as it gets loose. The noise only lasts for a second or two.

The noise goes away when I brake (since the wheel would stop turning).

froop · 02-12-2013, 08:12 PM

A good way to diagnose the problem would be in stages.

First would be to jack up the car and see if the wheel turns freely or not. Probably good idea to check this with the wheel straight and at full and/or partial lock to either side. Find out whether direction of the hub plays any part in it.

Next take the wheel off and see if the hub turns freely performing the same steps as with the wheel on.

If it's still grinding, then the final step would be to remove the brake pads or possibly the entire caliper and perform the same above steps.

If it happens with the pads/caliper off then you know it's a problem with your rotor or your hub. If it goes away with the pads/caliper then you know you have a braking problem.

Of course that only works if you can reproduce some kind of issue either noise or friction with the wheels off.

But you also said that you have non-hub centric wheels on without the hub centric rings. Maybe wait until the rings arrive and put them on and see if the issue happens.

Also, have you tried putting back on your stock wheels and seeing if the issue still happens?

Knightelf · 02-13-2013, 09:20 AM

Here we go... sound clip! Can happen going forward or backward depending on what the car feels like... And usually it's even louder than this

John_01 · 02-13-2013, 05:14 PM

It sounds like brake pads on discs to me. I wonder if your discs have been bent or otherwise some problem with the caliper.

Knightelf · 02-13-2013, 06:09 PM

It seems to be accompanied by steering wheel wobble (already balanced the wheels and put hub rings on last week). There's no wobble on cold start, the wobble just seems to come out when the sound issue surfaces. I am convinced it must be some sort of caliper problem!

I've sent BMW the clip so hopefully I'll know what they think later today.

Thanks for all your input guys.

Knightelf · 02-14-2013, 10:40 PM

BMW service rep replied as follows:

"I have limited access internet at work and am unable to view this clip on my computer
I have viewed it on another computer and there is no sound on the clip"

Well, I feel like I'm emailing a retard.

They are definitely stonewalling me. Fking BMW are a joke sometimes.

tracer bullet · 02-14-2013, 11:11 PM

IMO it's related to the rotor. Either the rotor is truly warped from a ridiculous stud tightening (as mentioned already by John-01), or it's possibly uneven pad deposit on the rotor itself. Stoptech has a "myth or warped rotors" document that's a good read about this, the gist is that the rotor has more friction in some spots than others, and it can feel like a warp as the pads gain and lose grip as the rotor spins around through them.

If it's the latter, do a bed-in process for the pads, which you can "google" about. Basically a bunch of rapid stops from speed. The good news is that it's free to do, just takes up some of your time. I have recommended this to people in the past (I'm an admin on other car forums) and it has worked, not always but sometimes, so I'd suggest it again here.

If that doesn't do it then there doesn't seem to be anything left except the rotors being warped. I've seen brake lines tug on dust shields and various other problems but that's only during a hard turn, and obviously not the case here.

(And along those lines how did the dealer possibly think that changing the pads would do anything? They don't spin, and clearly this is related to something that is spinning. I know you can't answer for them, but sheesh.)

((Also as you well know other people can hear the noise in the video, including me, so it ain't the video at fault.))

Knightelf · 02-14-2013, 11:56 PM

Thanks for all the info, I definitely intend to take your advice and bed in the brakes and see if that helps. I am not sure if it is rotor warping though, since braking itself seems unaffected...

Knightelf · 03-03-2013, 11:14 PM

In case anyone was wondering... BMW replaced both my front rotors on warranty and the issues are now resolved.

So I scored new pads all around and new discs

Thanks everyone

racer_x · 03-03-2013, 11:47 PM

Glad to hear they saw reason. Did you have to demo the issue in front of them?

Zuzu · 03-03-2013, 11:50 PM

Great result... Do you actually know what caused the issue.

Was it from over torquing the wheels?

02-06-2013, 10:25 PM	#1
Knightelf Lieutenant Drives: 2011 135i SGM DCT Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 433 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 135i [0.00]	Non-hubcentric rims I bought a set of non-hubcentric rims from another member. I've ordered hub rings which should arrive soon. No issues with wheel clearance and I've had a guard roll. The issue is that, I found a strange noise on the front left wheel after putting them on. The noise only happens sometimes at very low speeds (e.g. stuck in traffic jam) and with my foot OFF the brake pedal. Sounds like the wheel hub/rotor creaking or grinding on something. Definitely not normal. Took it back to the tyre shop next day and they told me somethings wrong with the rotors because the wheel doesn't spin freely when they jack it up. It gets "stuck" on some points. They said there's no way the wheel install caused it. I took it to BMW, who then replaced all by brake pads on warranty. Well, as I suspected that didn't fix anything (although I got new brake pads for free). Any ideas? Could the tyre shop have screwed up my rotors when they put on my wheels?
	Tweet

02-07-2013, 12:00 AM	#4
Ian///M Brigadier General Drives: 1M E82 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Oz Posts: 4,515 iTrader: (0)	Wheel bearing? __________________ BMW 1M VO - Cobb, Remus muffler, MadDads midpipes, ETS 5" FMIC, ER CP, CDV, OCC, Michelin PSS

02-07-2013, 02:17 AM	#7
Ian///M Brigadier General Drives: 1M E82 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Oz Posts: 4,515 iTrader: (0)	Have you tried swapping the front wheels left with right? __________________ BMW 1M VO - Cobb, Remus muffler, MadDads midpipes, ETS 5" FMIC, ER CP, CDV, OCC, Michelin PSS

02-12-2013, 06:41 PM	#10
Knightelf Lieutenant Drives: 2011 135i SGM DCT Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 433 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 135i [0.00]	This is driving me nuts. BMW says they can't find what's wrong and cannot replicate the sound. The grinding noise ONLY happens after the car is warmed up so I guess that's why they can't hear it. The noise is pretty frequent after a highway run and can get pretty loud. They're trying to tell me "noise is normal" on a 135i. Do you think it could be caused by using the stock bolts? as opposed to the Enkei bolts (which I don't have). The wheel uses a 5x120 pattern of course. Last edited by Knightelf; 02-12-2013 at 06:49 PM.

03-03-2013, 11:50 PM	#22
Zuzu Major General Drives: VO 1M Beast Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SyDnEy Oz Posts: 6,971 iTrader: (0)	Great result... Do you actually know what caused the issue. Was it from over torquing the wheels? __________________ : COBB tune ... ETS FMIC ... aFe CAI ... Meisterschaft GT exhaust ... BM OCC ... H&R springs :

02-06-2013, 11:28 PM	#2
froop Captain Drives: 08 AW 6MT E82 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 738 iTrader: (1)	Unless they dropped it onto the rotor with no wheel mounted I wouldn't think so.

02-06-2013, 11:44 PM	#3
Knightelf Lieutenant Drives: 2011 135i SGM DCT Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 433 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 135i [0.00]	These guys were recommended on the forum and seems to know what they're doing so I didn't think it was their fault. However, it's just strange how the issue popped up on the day that I changed wheels. I'm taking it to another dealership on Tuesday, so hopefully they can find the problem.

02-07-2013, 12:45 AM	#5
John_01 Lieutenant Colonel Drives: E90 325i, E82 135i Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,673 iTrader: (0)	Sounds like a brake caliper / pad / disc issue, maybe unrelated to the wheels. The disc should normally rotate freely when the car is jacked. Sometimes its possible for the brake discs to be out of round if the lug bolts are severely overtightened. Maybe that's possible in your case but I wouldn't want to accuse anyone until you have evidence.

02-07-2013, 12:48 AM	#6
Knightelf Lieutenant Drives: 2011 135i SGM DCT Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 433 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 135i [0.00]	Re brakes or bearings... could be either, but it only happens at speeds of under 20km/h and only intermittently. I think it's a brake issue (hope they don't blame it on my wheels). The wheels were put on & removed 3 times now so they couldn't have over-tightened it every time, and only happens on 1 wheel.

02-07-2013, 05:46 AM	#8
froop Captain Drives: 08 AW 6MT E82 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 738 iTrader: (1)	Actually, it could be a stone trapped between the rotor and the dust shield. Have you checked that yet? We had that happen at the snowy mountains 1000 due to all the gravel.

02-12-2013, 07:00 PM	#11
John_01 Lieutenant Colonel Drives: E90 325i, E82 135i Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,673 iTrader: (0)	You wrote before the wheel doesn't turn freely when the car is jacked up. Is it right? If that is still the case, it should be too hard for them to find the problem. I am wondering if maybe they aren't very motivated to identify this issue. When you hear the noise, try lightly touching the brakes. If the noise changes then its likely to be a brake problem - Personally I suspect it is.

02-12-2013, 08:12 PM	#13
froop Captain Drives: 08 AW 6MT E82 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 738 iTrader: (1)	A good way to diagnose the problem would be in stages. First would be to jack up the car and see if the wheel turns freely or not. Probably good idea to check this with the wheel straight and at full and/or partial lock to either side. Find out whether direction of the hub plays any part in it. Next take the wheel off and see if the hub turns freely performing the same steps as with the wheel on. If it's still grinding, then the final step would be to remove the brake pads or possibly the entire caliper and perform the same above steps. If it happens with the pads/caliper off then you know it's a problem with your rotor or your hub. If it goes away with the pads/caliper then you know you have a braking problem. Of course that only works if you can reproduce some kind of issue either noise or friction with the wheels off. But you also said that you have non-hub centric wheels on without the hub centric rings. Maybe wait until the rings arrive and put them on and see if the issue happens. Also, have you tried putting back on your stock wheels and seeing if the issue still happens?

02-13-2013, 09:20 AM	#14
Knightelf Lieutenant Drives: 2011 135i SGM DCT Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 433 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 135i [0.00]	Here we go... sound clip! Can happen going forward or backward depending on what the car feels like... And usually it's even louder than this

02-13-2013, 05:14 PM	#15
John_01 Lieutenant Colonel Drives: E90 325i, E82 135i Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,673 iTrader: (0)	It sounds like brake pads on discs to me. I wonder if your discs have been bent or otherwise some problem with the caliper.

02-13-2013, 06:09 PM	#16
Knightelf Lieutenant Drives: 2011 135i SGM DCT Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 433 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 135i [0.00]	It seems to be accompanied by steering wheel wobble (already balanced the wheels and put hub rings on last week). There's no wobble on cold start, the wobble just seems to come out when the sound issue surfaces. I am convinced it must be some sort of caliper problem! I've sent BMW the clip so hopefully I'll know what they think later today. Thanks for all your input guys.

02-14-2013, 10:40 PM	#17
Knightelf Lieutenant Drives: 2011 135i SGM DCT Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 433 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 135i [0.00]	BMW service rep replied as follows: "I have limited access internet at work and am unable to view this clip on my computer I have viewed it on another computer and there is no sound on the clip" Well, I feel like I'm emailing a retard. They are definitely stonewalling me. Fking BMW are a joke sometimes.

02-14-2013, 11:11 PM	#18
tracer bullet Captain Drives: '11 135i - AW w/ TC Join Date: May 2011 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 606 iTrader: (1)	IMO it's related to the rotor. Either the rotor is truly warped from a ridiculous stud tightening (as mentioned already by John-01), or it's possibly uneven pad deposit on the rotor itself. Stoptech has a "myth or warped rotors" document that's a good read about this, the gist is that the rotor has more friction in some spots than others, and it can feel like a warp as the pads gain and lose grip as the rotor spins around through them. If it's the latter, do a bed-in process for the pads, which you can "google" about. Basically a bunch of rapid stops from speed. The good news is that it's free to do, just takes up some of your time. I have recommended this to people in the past (I'm an admin on other car forums) and it has worked, not always but sometimes, so I'd suggest it again here. If that doesn't do it then there doesn't seem to be anything left except the rotors being warped. I've seen brake lines tug on dust shields and various other problems but that's only during a hard turn, and obviously not the case here. (And along those lines how did the dealer possibly think that changing the pads would do anything? They don't spin, and clearly this is related to something that is spinning. I know you can't answer for them, but sheesh.) ((Also as you well know other people can hear the noise in the video, including me, so it ain't the video at fault.))

02-14-2013, 11:56 PM	#19
Knightelf Lieutenant Drives: 2011 135i SGM DCT Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 433 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 135i [0.00]	Thanks for all the info, I definitely intend to take your advice and bed in the brakes and see if that helps. I am not sure if it is rotor warping though, since braking itself seems unaffected...

03-03-2013, 11:14 PM	#20
Knightelf Lieutenant Drives: 2011 135i SGM DCT Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 433 iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 135i [0.00]	In case anyone was wondering... BMW replaced both my front rotors on warranty and the issues are now resolved. So I scored new pads all around and new discs Thanks everyone

03-03-2013, 11:47 PM	#21
racer_x Private First Class Drives: When He Has To Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Sydney Posts: 126 iTrader: (0)	Glad to hear they saw reason. Did you have to demo the issue in front of them?

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