1M Zuzette

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by beemer

if bmw have spent huge amounts of cash researching and testing to make a turbo m car with as much throttle response as a na car and making the driver feel as linked to the car as possible i don't want to throw that out the window for the sake of 10% more power.
for me throttle response and connection to the motor and car are key, and the m car is designed to do that, so i am happy stock.

the only mod i would do is the exhaust, maybe

Agree, don't think the 1M needs more power. Seems from all the reviews that it is VERY fast. I don't think a tune will be as effective as on a 135i.

Akra pipes are very appealing. but very $$$ way to add 15HP, but the sounds is simply glorious

Originally Posted by RaihaX

Throttle response seems fine on my car

Not response, rather the way the power is delivered. The JB/Procede are very aggressive in their delivery, JB more so.

[Ian///M]

Also to add to this perspective .... Joe you said that the 1M felt faster & more powerful than you 255kW vert ?

[gazz]

Originally Posted by pcockley

You chaps need to come to Wakefield in December so we can compare a 1M and a 335!!!!

Come on chaps man up otherwise it's me (with BMW) against the poobs :-(

Having gone from a 335i to a 1M I can say that, given equal drivers, the 335i will be slaughtered on a track against a 1M. Just the M differential means a huge advantage in getting power down, plus brakes, turn in, power, M3 chassis, etc etc. I loved my 335i and it is an outstanding road car but on a track it's no contest.

It's bordering on scandalous that a car like the 335i doesn't have at least a partially locking diff'. I imagine it's the same for the 1ers. Hell a 1973 Alfa 2000 GTV with a puny 97.7 Kw had a 25% locking diff'.

[Ian///M]

+1 it would be a stupid comparison. As I saw yesterday with Alex's 1M vs my 135i (even with LSD & PS) ... I would be close in the dry, but track driving comes down to chassis and suspension, not really power. E.g. A mates Lotus Elise kills my 135i on the track simply due to the cornering ability...I can catch up on the straights, but generally too late.

A stock 335i will be very average on a track, esp the braking, lack of LSD and soft suspension.

IMO track driving can be fun in most cars... not about lap times, but rather what you can get out of your car and the fun in the process.

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by gazz

Having gone from a 335i to a 1M I can say that, given equal drivers, the 335i will be slaughtered on a track against a 1M. Just the M differential means a huge advantage in getting power down, plus brakes, turn in, power, M3 chassis, etc etc. I loved my 335i and it is an outstanding road car but on a track it's no contest.

It's bordering on scandalous that a car like the 335i doesn't have at least a partially locking diff'. I imagine it's the same for the 1ers. Hell a 1973 Alfa 2000 GTV with a puny 97.7 Kw had a 25% locking diff'.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's I think they did, it was dropped to differentiate the M from the rest

I guess at the end of the day gotta get something to justify an extra 50k over a 335 for the M. For my money (well what I am allowed to spend anyway) a 335 with tune, dp's, FMIC, meth, quaife and M suspension runs to about 10k

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by pcockley

Back in the late 70's and early 80's I think they did, it was dropped to differentiate the M from the rest

I guess at the end of the day gotta get something to justify an extra 50k over a 335 for the M. For my money (well what I am allowed to spend anyway) a 335 with tune, dp's, FMIC, meth, quaife and M suspension runs to about 10k

Good luck with that! it will be a good car, but a //M car will run rings around it.... That is just a fact!

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

Good luck with that! it will be a good car, but a //M car will run rings around it.... That is just a fact!

I dont see why, if I address the power and suspension they should be pretty equal.

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by gazz

It's bordering on scandalous that a car like the 335i doesn't have at least a partially locking diff'. I imagine it's the same for the 1ers. Hell a 1973 Alfa 2000 GTV with a puny 97.7 Kw had a 25% locking diff'.

Many modern sports cars such as Porche, Merc C63 (added extra option on C63) don't have LSD's. 135i & 335i definitely need some form of locking diff, but again, they are not track designed cars like the M's are. The M-diff is superior to aftermarket LSDs.

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by pcockley

I dont see why, if I address the power and suspension they should be pretty equal.

See my car's specs.... BMW PS, Quaife, M3 bits, tune etc. While it is vastly better than stock, very capable and huge fun, it's not close to an M3 on the track. I have swapped cars with an M3, and even though I'm not the fastest driver on the track, times were similar, so driver out of the equation. The M just did the job with less fuss & better.

[lavaletta]

Originally Posted by pcockley

I dont see why, if I address the power and suspension they should be pretty equal.

With respect, without specifics that 's a pretty vague proposition. I could just as easily say that if I address the power and suspension in my 1M I can have it performing like a GT3 RS 4.0....it's an easy statement to make.

[RaihaX]

I suppose you could always put all the m3 chassis and suspension components and that should get it close to a real m3?

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by RaihaX

I suppose you could always put all the m3 chassis and suspension components and that should get it close to a real m3?

Not really, there is the M-diff & wider track on the //M too, plus the way the car's electronics are programmed to respond & understand the suspension it has fitted.

[MrBlonde]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

Agree, don't think the 1M needs more power.

For street use or circuit days (club track sprints), agreed.

For drag racing it needs a LOT more power.

[RaihaX]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

Not really, there is the M-diff & wider track on the //M too, plus the way the car's electronics are programmed to respond & understand the suspension it has fitted.

Yeah I guess when i say chassis and suspension it means retrofitting the m3 diff and putting m3 body with the wider fender as well, but you are right with the car's electronic i suppose.

[pcockley]

My expectation is with the following kit http://hpashop.com/BMW-E8X-E9X-to-M3...conversion.htm from Harold the man that I am gonna get 90+% the way there, throw in a Quaife and full bolt ons and I doubt an M3 will run rings around it.

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by pcockley

My expectation is with the following kit http://hpashop.com/BMW-E8X-E9X-to-M3...conversion.htm from Harold the man that I am gonna get 90+% the way there, throw in a Quaife and full bolt ons and I doubt an M3 will run rings around it.

Just buy a 2nd hand M3 ... $95k for a decent one now days

As I said, ANY car can be fun on the track etc. There is good fun in improving it via mods etc, but it is naive to think that you can turn a 335i into a M3, or a 135i into a 1M.
If you want to get competitive on the track, then get a purpose built track car, not a +$100k car that isn't insured when you push the limits

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

For street use or circuit days (club track sprints), agreed.

For drag racing it needs a LOT more power.

Kenny, you always want more power

[BMW86]

Interesting comments in this thread. Some of you guys really need to experience a tune, you are really missing out on somethign special. And before you say the power delivery of the 1M is so smooth check out some of the power curves of tuned N54's first. It's quite epic.

I'm not going to lie, my 135i feels slow on stock map (190-195kw) and Map 1 (235kw). Map 2 (249kw) feels like the perfect 'minimum' level for me. The 1M dynos at 220kw... When you line the 2 cars up side by side then you'll see what it's all about... seeing is believing

On the track, it's another story. I'm going out to QR and will most likely use Map 2 or my Meth maps but at Lakeside I will probably tone it down to Map 1 power because that track is all about the handling and corners.

IMHO, all a 1M needs is some kind of tune - especially since it's so easy, otherwise it's a great out of the box. Do it, it's the best few hundred bucks you will ever spend.

[pcockley]

mmm See the best thing about a white 135 is THE BABE SPREAD OUT IN FRONT......

seriously there's not too much difference from a spec'd 135 and a 1M in price where as in a 3 its over 50K thats a joke and as a DD the M3 is no where as nice to drive as a 335. Well I'm only comparing a mates manual M3 to my DCT 335, so perhaps thats the unfair bit.

[beemer]

not if it takes even a bees dick of throttle response out of it, i really learned how inportant that was yesterday, if you cant feather the throttle while on the limit with the back wheels just hanging on then there is no fun in it. with a jb4 there is virtually no throttle control, its on or off, makes yor car un driveable in the wet at speed, unless your vettle or some kind of track god

jb4 on a 1m would be like tomato sauce on caviar

Originally Posted by BMW86

Interesting comments in this thread. Some of you guys really need to experience a tune, you are really missing out on somethign special. And before you say the power delivery of the 1M is so smooth check out some of the power curves of tuned N54's first. It's quite epic.

I'm not going to lie, my 135i feels slow on stock map (190-195kw) and Map 1 (235kw). Map 2 (249kw) feels like the perfect 'minimum' level for me. The 1M dynos at 220kw... When you line the 2 cars up side by side then you'll see what it's all about... seeing is believing

On the track, it's another story. I'm going out to QR and will most likely use Map 2 or my Meth maps but at Lakeside I will probably tone it down to Map 1 power because that track is all about the handling and corners.

IMHO, all a 1M needs is some kind of tune - especially since it's so easy, otherwise it's a great out of the box. Do it, it's the best few hundred bucks you will ever spend.

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by beemer

not if it takes even a bees dick of throttle response out of it, i really learned how inportant that was yesterday, if you cant feather the throttle while on the limit with the back wheels just hanging on then there is no fun in it. with a jb4 there is virtually no throttle control, its on or off, makes yor car un driveable in the wet at speed, unless your vettle or some kind of track god

jb4 on a 1m would be like tomato sauce on caviar

Certainly cant agree with that, unless you are also adding stock tyres for both 135 and 1M but that would not be fair at all. So assuming same tread JB4 is pretty smooth in my book

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by beemer

not if it takes even a bees dick of throttle response out of it, i really learned how inportant that was yesterday, if you cant feather the throttle while on the limit with the back wheels just hanging on then there is no fun in it. with a jb4 there is virtually no throttle control, its on or off, makes yor car un driveable in the wet at speed, unless your vettle or some kind of track god

jb4 on a 1m would be like tomato sauce on caviar

Agreed.
A handheld flash, if maps done properly, could be brilliant on the 1M. Zuzu must do it first and report back!

So when's you dad buying my car Alex??