Oil Cooler

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Very tempted to get in on this deal but haven't done any much research on oil coolers. Any thoughts? http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=614008

At the risk of being flamed (yet again) can I ask what sort of oil temps you are seeing and do you track the car?

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by pcockley

At the risk of being flamed (yet again) can I ask what sort of oil temps you are seeing and do you track the car?

I consistently run around 115-120 degrees. If I'm on it all the time it gets up around 125 but if I take it easy for the next few km's it gets down to 120 fairly quickly. I don't recall it ever hitting 130 though.

I plan to keep the car long term and it gets really warm here so the goal is preventing any long damage from consistent high oil temps.

I think the dual core may be an overkill. Which oil cooler is the best from the research you have done?

[MrBlonde]

I think what kills circuit cars is heat and RPMs. I would do everything possible to remove heat from the system: upgraded radiator, an oil system like ERs with the dual cores. Maybe even tranny/diff cooler too.

[Ian///M]

Imagine that huh! ... temps at what it was designed to be at. Be interesting to see the oil temps of other cars that don't have oil temp gauges.

Where is it stated that 120 deg is too high and will damage the engine over time?

[TimMc]

Originally Posted by alik01

JD75/Skycat, is there any reason why you think the OE thermostat pushes temperatures into the 120C. What would be the benefit BMW engineers were angling for with this? The reason I ask is, if the solution to better cooling is having the thermostats action point reduced, wouldn't this be the obvious thing for BMW to do first before sticking extra coolers in the 1M & BMWP Performance Pack?

I'm really concerned about the temps in my car while on the track which hit about 130 sometimes, but the engine ran perfectly well and seemed to be pulling hard as ever. The 120C mark is a mid point on the engine and it seems to love being at this temp. From your extensive experience, is there any benefit to running warmer?

Thanks.

One benefit of BMW running high temps in these DI engines, that I've read elsewhere on this forum, is that it may help prevent carbon build up on the inlet valves & tract. I'm not sure of the validity of this though. Anyone else heard/read similar?

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

I think what kills circuit cars is heat and RPMs. I would do everything possible to remove heat from the system: upgraded radiator, an oil system like ERs with the dual cores. Maybe even tranny/diff cooler too.

Good advice Kenny. Do you think dual cores is an overkill though?

Originally Posted by ianf2002

Imagine that huh! ... temps at what it was designed to be at. Be interesting to see the oil temps of other cars that don't have oil temp gauges.

Where is it stated that 120 deg is too high and will damage the engine over time?

I think 120 deg is safe but I plan on doing more drag racing and track events next year. Plus it gets really warm here in Queensland and I have done a fair few km's, more than most on this forum as I've had the 135i almost 3 years now. I've never experienced limp mode from overheating but I'd like to have a better cooling system before I upgrade my twin snails

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by TimMc

One benefit of BMW running high temps in these DI engines, that I've read elsewhere on this forum, is that it may help prevent carbon build up on the inlet valves & tract. I'm not sure of the validity of this though. Anyone else heard/read similar?

I'm not sure if this is true but I'm hoping my meth system is taking care of that problem for me

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by BMW86

I think 120 deg is safe but I plan on doing more drag racing and track events next year. Plus it gets really warm here in Queensland and I have done a fair few km's, more than most on this forum as I've had the 135i almost 3 years now. I've never experienced limp mode from overheating but I'd like to have a better cooling system before I upgrade my twin snails

+1... if big power is added like with your car, then definitely upgrade cooling systems.

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by TimMc

One benefit of BMW running high temps in these DI engines, that I've read elsewhere on this forum, is that it may help prevent carbon build up on the inlet valves & tract. I'm not sure of the validity of this though. Anyone else heard/read similar?

I recall Dackel mentioning that somewhere

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Good advice Kenny. Do you think dual cores is an overkill though?



I think 120 deg is safe but I plan on doing more drag racing and track events next year. Plus it gets really warm here in Queensland and I have done a fair few km's, more than most on this forum as I've had the 135i almost 3 years now. I've never experienced limp mode from overheating but I'd like to have a better cooling system before I upgrade my twin snails

From the chat I had with Pete from Advan, he wasn't too concerned with 120 but had a BIG concern with the change interval. I get that bit!

What temps are you seeing on the strip, is that the 120+ you mention?

Remember BMW did not ship the N54 with an oil cooler to start with, so does that mean we should rip out the OEM unit?? The more I think about it and read from other members the bigger single unit where the stock one is sounds like the best compromise? I am keen to hear back from JD, who has the most worked N54 I have seen locally on OIL/WATER cooling.

I suspect I know the answer but he has done lots of development so he will know

[BMW86]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

+1... if big power is added like with your car, then definitely upgrade cooling systems.

I haven't been on the dyno since my meth system is now fully functional but I estimate anywhere between 260-280kw right now. I realistically average 120 deg but I would like to do anything that minimises stress on the engine. I'd also like to see some data on Advan's radiator and an estimated price point too. It looks the goods

[BMW86]

I just had another look at Advan's radiator and the end tanks appear to have a smaller diameter.. not sure if this can be a good thing. Glad to see it's not made of plastic though!

[pcockley]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Glad to see it's not made of plastic though!

Guaranteed never to rust

[JD75]

Originally Posted by pcockley

Are you planning on replacing the stock oil cooler like the Stett kit you have or will this be an additional oil cooler in front of the radiator.

The OE cooler will be replaced with the new Setrab or Earl's core.

I would not wish to place a further flow restriction in front of the radiator.

It is worth noting that most guys who will buy this kit, are FBO.

As such they will already have a significantly larger intercooler installed in front of the radiator.

Installing a second component that further inhibits air flow through the rad' core is obviously not a good idea.

[JD75]

Originally Posted by pcockley

JD

Thanks I appreciate the time to explain the setup, I was assuming the new thermostat was replacing the OEM unit, but I understand why the new adaptor plate is needed now.

Did you do the radiator AND oil cooler at the same time on your car, just wondering if you saw a difference in cooling between them? From an install timeframe do you have any idea how long this would take, just wondering if it's a day job or if its taxi time?

Hey Paul,

the PWR radiator was fitted just prior to the car entering the "Hot Tuner Shootout".

FYI,

the Stett oil cooler kit was the VERY FIRST MOD I bought for the vehicle.

This was for two reasons.

The first being that I considered it a key component given the "build" I had envisaged.

The latter was that excessive oil temps was very much a known problem on modded vehicles, due to the insufficient OE oil cooling system.

I had not upgraded the radiator previously, as I had not tracked the car as yet.

The Stett kit had done wonders for controlling oil temps whilst the car had spent countless hours on the dyno.

Pete has commented several times before that my car has the lowest sustained oil temp, of all the N54/N55 BMW's he has dynoed.

Which in itself is quite significant as my 1'er makes just a little more horsepower than most other 1 & 3 Series BMW's too.

Paul I suspect if you give Pete a bit of notice, he can knock the complete installation over in around 5 hours.

[CrustyNoodle]

Higher engine operating temps are better for fuel efficiency - suspect this is why the OE stuff targets a high oil (and no doubt water) temp.

Lower engine temps produce more power but are less fuel efficient.

[BMW86]

Justin - can you give any details on why the end tanks of the new radiator are slightly smaller in diameter and if this was intentional part of the design?

[JD75]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

120 deg is fine... over 150 deg is an issue and when DME engine management reduces power. 100-120 deg is optimal temp managed by thermostat setting. I have done many track days and my oil temps have never gone over 120. The only time it went high was on the Advan dyno due to lack of fans blowing on it initially.

Get your facts correct before sprouting unfounded statements. I think the BMW engineers know what they are doing. Do a track day first and then see if it is an issue. Unless your mods are pushing more than 20% over stock, I can't see this being an issue.

Hey Ian,

with all due respect I would not consider a sustained oil temp of 120+ degrees Celsius to be fine, for anything but a stock vehicle making stock power.

I suspect the N55 may place less load on the oil cooling system than that of the N54.

You only have 1 heat exchanger on your vehicle, where as the N54 has two turbos that are spinning like crazy and in turn generating a lot of heat.

That is potentially more thermal load on the oil cooling system, which would result in higher running temps than that of the twin-scroll turbo N55.

By the way are the BMW engineers you so fondly refer to, the one and the same engineers that managed very quickly to resolve the HPFP and or ignition system issues that would have otherwise plagued the platform, oh wait, they didn't.

Lastly if you do the math Ian, practically ANY 135i/335i with just a PROcede or JB3/JB4 will be making way more power than 20% over stock.

[Ian///M]

JD, you know more & have more experience than I do. So I'll give you that

For my N55 car & mods (PROcede), I don't believe oil temps are an issue. Switching to 0W40 Castrol EDGE made a difference too...and then there's Redline WW.

My tune only adds around than 20-25%. (230-240rwkw). If I was going further with mods, sure I would add better cooling.

Using an example, I think that the 1M has a different oil cooler and definitely an aux water radiator to cope with extra performance, so based on this, a N54 135i adding similar performance may also benefit from added cooling??

Any way not too concerned as no more 135i for me

[MrBlonde]

Originally Posted by BMW86

Good advice Kenny. Do you think dual cores is an overkill though?

It depends on what you want to use your car for. You can look at it as a one off expense that solves that particular engineering problem long term. Then you forget it.

[Ian///M]

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

It depends on what you want to use your car for. You can look at it as a one off expense that solves that particular engineering problem long term. Then you forget it.

Out of interest, you must have additional coolers on your beast?

[MrBlonde]

Originally Posted by ianf2002

Out of interest, you must have additional coolers on your beast?

No I am running stock cooling, street car has not needed anything better. If I was to upgrade I would go ER race setup and consider the Advan offering that's in development.