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      12-02-2011, 06:08 PM   #89
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The reality is stock for stock, the 1M is a much better car than a 135i. However, performance wise, it seems a modded 135i edges out a 1M. The reality is some of us have been driving these 'modded 1M's' for years now, the 1M is a bit late to the party although it's attracted plenty of new buyers. The 1M is a good opportunity for those that left their 135i stock and want to upgrade, but for the rest of us, there's less motivation to do so. If we were buying today, the clear choice is the 1M
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      12-02-2011, 06:29 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by infinitekid2002 View Post
i wanna see..link!
here...
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      12-02-2011, 06:29 PM   #91
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here...
thanks i meant the bitching thread though
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      12-02-2011, 06:40 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by bimmer ///man View Post
This argument is pointless and ridiculous. The M Division hardly did anything to the 1M, not to take anything away. The ONLY things that had be be designed specifically for this car were the body work, axle back muffler, M gauges, M button and alcantara interior pieces. That's it! Everything else was either pulled from the 135 or M3. Nothing was "tweaked" by superior engineering aside from what I listed. A 135i can EASILY achieve and surpass the 1M.

Pull a steering rack off a wrecked m3 and HP would have had the same steering feedback. The quaife does behave a little differently than a clutch pack diff but aside from that they are identical and then the 135 surpasses with the TCK's.

BTW, I am no longer arguing MSRP, let's get real. Most people will be doing this to a used car. No one is arguing that if offered both HP's modded 135 and a brand new 1M that someone would opt for the 135 at the same price.

The 1M is a great car, it symbolizes M finally making a step in the right direction towards a lighter and smaller chassis after the M3s have been getting heavier each generation. Hopefully this car will show them that there is the demand and they will devote more resources to the next 1M/M2.

To make it easier for everybody to understand, let me put it this way. 135i is equal to the e36 328is. The 1M is equal to the E36 M3. The M3 is a tweaked version of the 328. The engine is just a bored and stroked 2.8L. The brakes, dampers, control arms, LSD, axle back exhaust, gauges, steering wheel, bumpers and seats were the only things that were changed. They shared the same transmission, intake manifold, headers, midpipe, steering rack, and majority of body work. At least the e36 m3 got upgraded leather and m3 specific seats unlike the 1M.

My point being that yes the e36 m3 is a better car but with a few changes to the 328, it is easily an m3 competitor because they share SO many parts. The gap is even easier to close between the 135 and 1M.
If you say so... sounds like you are bitter ... an M is an M, purpose built.

My modded 135 will not keep up with an 1M on the track... in a straight line it is quicker. I recently saw a modded 135 and 1M swap drivers at a track and 1M still was quicker with each driver. A piggyback tune is also never going to give a linear power delivery like a flash tune or the 1M's factory tune.

In this article they should have done some lap times!
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      12-02-2011, 06:51 PM   #93
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I hate to bring this up but on my last track outing I let a pro driver take my car out for a few laps. That same day he drove a 1M. He was 1.3 sec faster with my car. I don't have a tune but my suspension is upgraded and I was wearing R comps. here is his fast lap

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      12-02-2011, 07:15 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelblue View Post
I hate to bring this up but on my last track outing I let a pro driver take my car out for a few laps. That same day he drove a 1M. He was 1.3 sec faster with my car. I don't have a tune but my suspension is upgraded and I was wearing R comps. here is his fast lap

Uh the tires probably made almost all of that difference.
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      12-02-2011, 07:40 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkbr0wn View Post
Uh the tires probably made almost all of that difference.
So tires made up for 35horsepower, 69overboosted torque, LSD, etc? 1.3 seconds is huge in the racing world. At SoCal tracks here 1-2 seconds determines times between an M3 and and M3 that has spent 20k in upgrades.


I stand by my original statement that even with a tune, the modded 135i would be faster on a track due to superior aftermarket parts compared to stock 1M parts.
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      12-02-2011, 07:44 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by cooler2442 View Post
So tires made up for 35horsepower, 69overboosted torque, LSD, etc? 1.3 seconds is huge in the racing world. At SoCal tracks here 1-2 seconds determines times between an M3 and and M3 that has spent 20k in upgrades.


I stand by my original statement that even with a tune, the modded 135i would be faster on a track due to superior aftermarket parts compared to stock 1M parts.
Keep telling your self that
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      12-02-2011, 07:51 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianf2002 View Post
Keep telling your self that
Don't need to, if Pixelblue's car was faster around the track due to his aftermarket suspension yet having no tune so being down in power but better tires then its already basically proven.
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      12-02-2011, 07:52 PM   #98
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Correct, 1.3 seconds is huge in the RACING world. Where everyone is on racing tires. Comparing times from cars with street tires to r-comps is silly.
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      12-02-2011, 07:54 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkbr0wn View Post
Correct, 1.3 seconds is huge in the RACING world. Where everyone is on racing tires. Comparing times from cars with street tires to r-comps is silly.
I would agree with you if his car had a tune or even LSD. But it didn't. So it was down 35hp, 69 torque, LSD, other miscellaneous bits? Isn't that a big advantage in the 1M's favor as much as having R compounds in the 135i's favor?
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      12-02-2011, 09:38 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by cooler2442 View Post
I would agree with you if his car had a tune or even LSD. But it didn't. So it was down 35hp, 69 torque, LSD, other miscellaneous bits? Isn't that a big advantage in the 1M's favor as much as having R compounds in the 135i's favor?
Depends on the track.
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      12-03-2011, 03:53 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooler2442 View Post
Don't need to, if Pixelblue's car was faster around the track due to his aftermarket suspension yet having no tune so being down in power but better tires then its already basically proven.
Doubt that, put the car's on equal rubber
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      12-03-2011, 06:06 PM   #102
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.............................but at the end of the day, its still a 135i
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      12-03-2011, 06:18 PM   #103
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Quote:
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Uh the tires probably made almost all of that difference.
From R compounds vs PS2s? Well more than 1.3 seconds on a 1:30 track.

Grass Roots Motorsports did a test recently comparing an R compound to an "extreme performance" SCCA cheater "street tire" (much faster than a PS2 on track) and found a 1.8 second difference between them on a 1 minute lap. On a 50% longer course you'd easily expect a 2-3 second difference between an R compound and a PS2.
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      12-03-2011, 06:34 PM   #104
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Ain't that a bitch (I mean tires)

What were we talking again?

Apples to oranges, driven by who-knows-who in neverland!

That's real scientific contribution!
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      12-03-2011, 10:01 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
Ain't that a bitch (I mean tires)

What were we talking again?

Apples to oranges, driven by who-knows-who in neverland!

That's real scientific contribution!
No it wasn't vettel but it was a pro driver driving both cars on the same track on the same day. Can't get more objective than that for what it's worth!
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      12-03-2011, 10:38 PM   #106
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No it wasn't vettel but it was a pro driver driving both cars on the same track on the same day. Can't get more objective than that for what it's worth!
Not worth much considering the tire difference.
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      12-04-2011, 05:24 AM   #107
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ianf2002

Auto Motor und Sports mixed up the data for the 100-0 km/h Braketest for the GTS.
The GTS brakes better when the Brakes are warm. :-)
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      12-04-2011, 07:57 AM   #108
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Pixel blue, what they are saying is that all the extra power, torque, and LSDs in the world won't help you go faster once you have reached the limit of grip of the tire, and there's such a difference in grip between an R compound and a street compound tire to negate any other 'tuning' effect between two 1 series with almost the same engine and same driver... And probably the better the driver the more he will be able to exploit the extra grip in the tires.
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      12-04-2011, 02:11 PM   #109
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I am not one of the people that thinks tweaking a 135 is dumb. I think they are great cars and wholeheartedly agree whoever spends the most money on their car will usually win whatever the challenge is supposed to be.

I have to disagree with your dumbing down of what BMW had to do to create the 1M though. First they changed the front left and right fenders. Then the inner shrouds. Then the rear fenders and inner shrouds. Then the valance below the rear bumper. Then the front bumper. That is no small amount of work. Then they redid the interior to what you see now. That includes stitching on all seats, door cards, door handles, shift boot, dash inlay and probably a few things I'm not counting. Then they redid the axleback exhaust. Then they replaced all suspension with M3 pieces. Spring rates are different, not sure about dampening. I believe the front subrfame is a hybid design, donít know about rear. Then the engine was fitted with a different transmission. Then they added M3 brakes. Then they added new brake ecu. Then they changed the valve cover. Then they changed some cooling bits (fan speed or something like that, minor stuff I believe). Then they redid the ECU to work with new diff, new tranny, new brakes, new power package (same as 135is power), new M button, new brakes and possibly new traction control parameters. Iím sure there are a few dozen smaller things that I am overlooking or donít even realize.

Added up that is a tremendous amount of work. Please don't fool yourself into thinking itís not. I hate to make assumptions but I'm going to assume you do not work in the engineering or design fields. If you did you would appreciate just how much effort and testing went into putting all that together and realize how benighted thinking otherwise truly is.
Body work isn't hard. They have giant presses and computers that stamp out the fenders like a cookie cutter. Have you watched their factory videos? Bumpers are just injected molded. Once again, not a feat that M was the only one able to complete.

The interior?? Please. It is the same leather that is used in the 135i. They just had to switch the thread that was being ran through the machine. I guarantee that the interior was easy. At any interior shop, aside from restitching the seats, all the other pieces could be knocked out in a day once the materials are in hand by hand.

Exhaust isn't hard to do, and personally it is a bit quite. It is high flowing though. Bolting parts on is not hard. Any shop can do it so I don't see how that argument comes into play. Front subframe is stock 135i. The rear subframe is an M3 subframe that will bolt into any 135/335. Transmission is the same manual transmission from any N55 6 speed 135/335. They had to change the valve cover??? That one must have been a real brain teaser... They even put the powered by M sticker on backwards. It does not have a new diff and brakes, these were pulled straight off the M3 assembly line. The ECU is programming is near identical to the z4is and 335is. The M button simply changed the drive by wire parameters, giving more throttle input for the same amount of foot input. Started back on the e46 m3 and nothing that a Sprint Booster can't match on a 135.

Where is the TREMENDOUS amount of work? Aside from the new exhaust and lightweight flywheel, NOTHING mechanical had to be designed.
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      12-04-2011, 02:26 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by ianf2002 View Post
If you say so... sounds like you are bitter ... an M is an M, purpose built.

My modded 135 will not keep up with an 1M on the track... in a straight line it is quicker. I recently saw a modded 135 and 1M swap drivers at a track and 1M still was quicker with each driver. A piggyback tune is also never going to give a linear power delivery like a flash tune or the 1M's factory tune.

In this article they should have done some lap times!
Yea, real bitter...you nailed it. Resorting to personal retorts already? Lol

If the M is SO purpose built, why would they install a plastic charge pipe that pops off...REAL purpose built. When was the last time you ever heard of an M car popping parts off the engine?

Lol, solid argument. "I saw a 135 that looked modded but have no idea what mods it had and the 1M beat it. Therefore, all modded 135s must be slower than 1Ms due to my experience."

How thick headed are you? What do you think the 1M's tune is? It is a flash/upload/coding. BMW took the stock n54 tune, modified it and then flashed the 1M's ecu after testing and new parameters. The same thing that GIAC can do. Piggybacks can deliver linear power, where they usually fall is on off throttle response situations as well as stop and go.

You are speaking out of the wrong end. If you don't know, don't spread BS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ianf2002 View Post
Doubt that, put the car's on equal rubber
BUT, BUT, BUT it's a 1M!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkbr0wn View Post
Not worth much considering the tire difference.
Doesn't matter, the 1M should always win. It was hand crafted and forged exclusively at M.
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