Gauging interest in a more affordable carbon lip option

[SloPoke]

What would the interest level be in a carbon lip almost identical to the Moto GP lip offered by Lightweight, but at a $500ish price point? I work at an Aerospace composites manufacturing company so I'm thinking about running these at night and weekends. These would be VARTM infused carbon pieces, possibly with Kevlar center plies for added strength. The work is going to be done by me at our family business Nor-Ral, Inc. Google us to check us out.

[SloPoke]

I guess I would get more responses once I post some pics of the prototype.

[Jay-K]

post some pics, maybe a little bit less 300-400 will sell real good.

[MDORPHN]

Despite the hype regarding the Moto GP lip, it offers little real aero benefit since it allows high-pressure air to flow above the lip and underneath the car.

I'm exploring using either the SLEK or Revozport splitter and fashioning a real splitter that would extend forward beneath it.

I need a real splitter to balance out a wing I'm planning to install on my car for use on track.

Neil

[yemski]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

What would the interest level be in a carbon lip almost identical to the Moto GP lip offered by Lightweight, but at a $500ish price point? I work at an Aerospace composites manufacturing company so I'm thinking about running these at night and weekends. These would be VARTM infused carbon pieces, possibly with Kevlar center plies for added strength. The work is going to be done by me at our family business Nor-Ral, Inc. Google us to check us out.

I'd be interested, currently looking at the PE lightweight version as I've heard CF lips are prone to crack. If you can develop a durable CF piece (I prefer CF over PE but don't want to deal with structural or cosmetic damage) I'd be game.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

What would the interest level be in a carbon lip almost identical to the Moto GP lip offered by Lightweight, but at a $500ish price point? I work at an Aerospace composites manufacturing company so I'm thinking about running these at night and weekends. These would be VARTM infused carbon pieces, possibly with Kevlar center plies for added strength. The work is going to be done by me at our family business Nor-Ral, Inc. Google us to check us out.

I would but if it followed the shape of the moto gp lip more closely than the lightweight. The lightweight is close but the moto gp lip sticks out a little further and and swoops in the center of the air curtain vents. Take a good look at pictures for both lips and you will see the difference. Also, I would like to not have to drill extra holes if that is possible. And I agree with the poster above...3-400 would be better!

[SloPoke]

I'm going to be getting the Lightweight version to use as a starting point and then tweak the design a bit. I'm thinking about extending it a bit further out for a more aggressive look. I'll see how the prototype goes to see about material usage. Carbon is expensive so there is a limit to how cheap it will be. Any other requests out there? I'm trying to keep complicated contours like the Slek and Revozport to a minimum since that will push the tooling cost way up. That type of tool would cost $6-10k. My goal here is to offer a carbon splitter at the price others are charging for a painted FRP version.

[SloPoke]

If anyone has any close-up shots of the real Moto GP lip, please post them. I have searched, but can't find any?

[EINSER M]

kevlar reinforced

[thok47]

I might be interested, assuming no drilling is needed.

[fastauto]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Despite the hype regarding the Moto GP lip, it offers little real aero benefit since it allows high-pressure air to flow above the lip and underneath the car.

I'm exploring using either the SLEK or Revozport splitter and fashioning a real splitter that would extend forward beneath it.

I need a real splitter to balance out a wing I'm planning to install on my car for use on track.

Neil

For function I can not find anything. If you come across one which does not require me to sell a kidney, please let me know. What rear wing are you going to look at? Apr?

[Robcut1]

It needs to be measured properly in order to fit all the way to the edges of the bumper

[ace11]

Originally Posted by yemski

I'd be interested, currently looking at the PE lightweight version as I've heard CF lips are prone to crack. If you can develop a durable CF piece (I prefer CF over PE but don't want to deal with structural or cosmetic damage) I'd be game.

+1 exactly

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by fastauto

For function I can not find anything. If you come across one which does not require me to sell a kidney, please let me know. What rear wing are you going to look at? Apr?

Yeah, the SLEK, Revozport and Vorsteiner splitters are the only ones that fit properly. Of course, I wish they were less expensive and made from something more robust, like FRP. If I get one, I'm planning to attach a splitter beneath, likely made from DiBond or Alumalite.

Yes, planning to go with an APR 200 rear wing.

Neil

[fastauto]

Originally Posted by MDORPHN

Yeah, the SLEK, Revozport and Vorsteiner splitters are the only ones that fit properly. Of course, I wish they were less expensive and made from something more robust, like FRP. If I get one, I'm planning to attach a splitter beneath, likely made from DiBond or Alumalite.

Yes, planning to go with an APR 200 rear wing.

Neil

i was talking to someone who had the slek on his car. i did not think the fitment was great and the fact that it was not adjustable is an issue. i think the revozport may be the best options but i do not like how people do not take use into consideration when making these parts. running a carbon piece on track is not something i am trying to do. i wonder why apr never released a front splitter option. if they had a splitter/wing packgage that would be a must. keep me posted on your build.

[SloPoke]

For those that have the carbon lips, how thick is the cross section of the part? I just got in the gloss black Lightweight Titanauspuffanlagen to study how they are attaching it, and its .500" thick black UHMW type plastic that weighs a ton. I'm thinking anything over .125" is just added weight. I've got pricing on 2x2 twill 6K carbon and plain weave 5.1 GSM Kevlar and I'm thinking my price point is still do-able. Right now I'm aiming for 2 plies carbon on the top of the lip, 8 inner plies Kevlar and 2 more carbon plies on the bottom, essentially making a carbon/Kevlar hybrid sandwich laminate. I'm now working on locating the best clear epoxy resin for infusion and then the best UV resistant clear coat.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

For those that have the carbon lips, how thick is the cross section of the part? I just got in the gloss black Lightweight Titanauspuffanlagen to study how they are attaching it, and its .500" thick black UHMW type plastic that weighs a ton. I'm thinking anything over .125" is just added weight. I've got pricing on 2x2 twill 6K carbon and plain weave 5.1 GSM Kevlar and I'm thinking my price point is still do-able. Right now I'm aiming for 2 plies carbon on the top of the lip, 8 inner plies Kevlar and 2 more carbon plies on the bottom, essentially making a carbon/Kevlar hybrid sandwich laminate. I'm now working on locating the best clear epoxy resin for infusion and then the best UV resistant clear coat.

I think 1/8" is too thin...visually. It need to be at least .25 to .38 area.

[E30 Racer]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

For those that have the carbon lips, how thick is the cross section of the part? I just got in the gloss black Lightweight Titanauspuffanlagen to study how they are attaching it, and its .500" thick black UHMW type plastic that weighs a ton. I'm thinking anything over .125" is just added weight. I've got pricing on 2x2 twill 6K carbon and plain weave 5.1 GSM Kevlar and I'm thinking my price point is still do-able. Right now I'm aiming for 2 plies carbon on the top of the lip, 8 inner plies Kevlar and 2 more carbon plies on the bottom, essentially making a carbon/Kevlar hybrid sandwich laminate. I'm now working on locating the best clear epoxy resin for infusion and then the best UV resistant clear coat.

Why not use a honeycomb inlay rather than all those (heavy) layers?

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by E30 Racer

Why not use a honeycomb inlay rather than all those (heavy) layers?

I was thinking about doing that, but honeycomb does not work well with infusion. The cells fill up with resin. Honeycomb laminates usually are associated with prepreg and involve expensive film adhesives to create a good bond and keep the resin from bleeding into the cells.

As far as being too thin visually, I'm going to curve the leading edge down to create a radius on the leading edge to look the same as the thicker front lips without the weight.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

I was thinking about doing that, but honeycomb does not work well with infusion. The cells fill up with resin. Honeycomb laminates usually are associated with prepreg and involve expensive film adhesives to create a good bond and keep the resin from bleeding into the cells.

As far as being too thin visually, I'm going to curve the leading edge down to create a radius on the leading edge to look the same as the thicker front lips without the weight.

Awesome! Do you think drilling into the car will be needed?

[OrangeCrush]

Ahem? ....

[SloPoke]

Haha, yeah I have not forgot about this. Work has just been pretty busy lately. I'm hoping to get the tooling and first prototype done in the next few weeks.