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      04-02-2014, 08:18 PM   #1
Patronus86
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1M Engine question

So I make my way over to this forum from time to time. I really admire the 1M Coupe and truth be told, if I could rewind time, I would have gotten the 1M Coupe instead of my 335is. I still enjoy my car, especially because of the N54 engine with its 370lb-ft of torque!

I recently saw a video explaining how Dinan has managed to tune the 1M's N54 to get 440hp/430lb-ft. I have read about Dinan modded 335i, which is only able to get about 408hp/430lb-ft.

My question is this: Why is the 1M's engine able to get tuned to higher hp level than the 335i's N54? I know that there are slight differences in the engines, but overall both engines are made up of the same components right? I believe the 1M has different downpipes from the 335is. Does that have anything to do with it?
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      04-02-2014, 08:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
So I make my way over to this forum from time to time. I really admire the 1M Coupe and truth be told, if I could rewind time, I would have gotten the 1M Coupe instead of my 335is. I still enjoy my car, especially because of the N54 engine with its 370lb-ft of torque!

I recently saw a video explaining how Dinan has managed to tune the 1M's N54 to get 440hp/430lb-ft. I have read about Dinan modded 335i, which is only able to get about 408hp/430lb-ft.

My question is this: Why is the 1M's engine able to get tuned to higher hp level than the 335i's N54? I know that there are slight differences in the engines, but overall both engines are made up of the same components right? I believe the 1M has different downpipes from the 335is. Does that have anything to do with it?
They have the same motor. The Dinan 1M package has upgraded turbos which explains the additional power. You can put upgraded turbos on your 335is and get the same results
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      04-03-2014, 07:34 AM   #3
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For less than half the money Dinan charges get a set of Vargas stage IIs or RB turbos and end up with more HP.

For slightly less money than Dinan get a set of Vargas stage IIIs or a FFTEC single turbo with approx. 200 more WHEEL hp.

Those prices include install and all accompanying components.
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      04-03-2014, 07:52 AM   #4
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Lets not forget that the 1M has high flow cats over a regular N54. That might have something to do with it too. Especially in a street legal road car sold with a warranty.

I think IF your talking bolts on to bolt on's(ie down pipes, FMIC, tune)... both engines should make the same power level.
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      04-03-2014, 08:21 AM   #5
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1M also has upgraded cooling components stock... I don't know if they upgraded the cooling on the 335i...
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      04-03-2014, 08:56 AM   #6
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I think the 1M engine is a N54T, donno if this refers to anything additional or different than the N54
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      04-03-2014, 08:59 AM   #7
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I thought the 1M has a different type of turbo. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
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      04-03-2014, 09:12 AM   #8
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1m is basically a PPK2 with a little more power, exhaust, ecu flash, and upgraded oil cooler
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      04-03-2014, 09:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1M SUSI View Post
I thought the 1M has a different type of turbo. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
You're wrong.

Neil
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      04-03-2014, 10:40 AM   #10
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Thanks Neil

But is this true for a 335? -->
Quote:
370lb-ft of torque
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      04-03-2014, 10:45 AM   #11
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Thanks for the responses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Lets not forget that the 1M has high flow cats over a regular N54. That might have something to do with it too. Especially in a street legal road car sold with a warranty.

I think IF your talking bolts on to bolt on's(ie down pipes, FMIC, tune)... both engines should make the same power level.
I have heard this too..that the 1M has different high flow downpipes, which is ultimately why tuners like Dinan can only take the horsepower for the 335i so far (I've read around 410hp) without risking damage to the turbos or engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowbudgethero View Post
1m is basically a PPK2 with a little more power, exhaust, ecu flash, and upgraded oil cooler
That is essentially the 335is as well...main differences being that this car didn't get the LSD or M3 Suspension upgrades...unfortunately.
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      04-03-2014, 10:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1M SUSI View Post
Thanks Neil

But is this true for a 335? -->
The overboost feature is simply a matter of the tune. Has nothing to do with the hard parts.

Neil
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      04-03-2014, 10:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1M SUSI View Post
Thanks Neil

But is this true for a 335? -->
The N54 in the 335is has a very similar tune to that of the 1M: 320 horsepower and 332 lb-ft, with a temporary overboost to 370lb-ft.
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      04-03-2014, 12:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1M SUSI View Post
I thought the 1M has a different type of turbo. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Nope. The 135i(and therefore probably the 1M) have different tour housing for the front turbo - in order to clear the frame horns. The outer turbo housing is small than say a 335i N54 engine. Thats all.



I think one thing everyone is forgetting about is on a 335is BMW limits power(& Tq) bc of the transmission choice. BMW worries that over time the drivetrain will not hold up.

Remember how the N55 manual trans that is used in the 1M is only rated to something like 470Nm of Tq. Even though the engine puts out 500Nm(+50Nm when on over boost)!! Remember how some 1M owners went thru clutches. Thats one of the reasons. IF you like to slip the clutch you will go thru some clutch jobs.

Steve Dinan talked recently about how BMW engineers this "weakness" on purpose... so the customer doesn't break a more expensive part like the transmission. He also talked about how you can reliably get a 25% increase in power and have relatively nothing break, and the engine will last 125K miles. Or... you can tune it to have a 50% increase in power... but the engine will only last you 60K miles. It's in interesting pod cast to listen to...

http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2014/t...107-krautwerk/


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      04-03-2014, 02:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I think one thing everyone is forgetting about is on a 335is BMW limits power(& Tq) bc of the transmission choice. BMW worries that over time the drivetrain will not hold up.
The power and torque on the 1M and the 335is are pretty much the same, I think 1M's hp is slightly higher...

Are you referring to the optional Dual Clutch Transmission being not as capable of handling increased hp/tq? I've heard that, but haven't seen detailed specs for the DCT.
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      04-03-2014, 02:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
The power and torque on the 1M and the 335is are pretty much the same, I think 1M's hp is slightly higher...

Are you referring to the optional Dual Clutch Transmission being not as capable of handling increased hp/tq? I've heard that, but haven't seen detailed specs for the DCT.
No Patronus86

I was eluding to that BMW offers the 335is in two Tq levels. One low version for the 6MT(317 ft/lbs) and a slightly bumped up tune for the 8AT(332 ft/lbs), since that auto trans can handle more torque.
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      04-03-2014, 03:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
No Patronus86

I was eluding to that BMW offers the 335is in two Tq levels. One low version for the 6MT(317 ft/lbs) and a slightly bumped up tune for the 8AT(332 ft/lbs), since that auto trans can handle more torque.
Two questions:
1) how did you put my name in that highlighted box?
2) what is the source of this info about the 2 different torque levels? I've never seen or heard that about the torque difference between 6mt and AT.
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      04-03-2014, 05:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
Two questions:
1) how did you put my name in that highlighted box?
Its easy. Just put an @ in front of the members name(@ user name, no space between the @ and user name). That will highlight the user name and also give them a notification that you are quoting or talking about them.

The only down side about using the @ sign is the user's name can not have any special characters or spaces in the name - for it to work(highlight).



Quote:
2) what is the source of this info about the 2 different torque levels? I've never seen or heard that about the torque difference between 6mt and AT.
I don't remember exactly where I saw it.(maybe on the Bimmerpost front page feature ?) I just remember that the auto trans can handle more power - so that's what BMW did with the PPK tune for it.

Name:  335is specs   is-2.jpg
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Size:  70.1 KB
(note: the DCT was never offered for the 335is. Only the 135i from 2010's and up had a DCT option along with M cars)


Official 2011 BMW 335is coupe and convertible (E92/E93) Info/Video/Wallpaper Thread
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342598
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      04-03-2014, 05:27 PM   #19
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Dackelone,
Thanks for the tip.

As for the 335is torque stats, I don't know. Every review and official spec sheet I've read has both the AT and 6MT listed for 332lb-ft with the 370lb-ft overboost. The 335is engine is pretty much tuned the same way the 1M's is, so I think the PPK is slightly different. I'm sure someone has dyno tested too. And DCT is offered for the 335is, in fact its listed as one of the options in the screenshot you posted.

I do know that the new F3x 3 and 4 series have have the PPK as options and there is slight difference in the hp/torque between 6MT and AT for that option (i think AT can get a slightly higher tune than the 6MT). That might be what you are thinking of.
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      04-03-2014, 05:48 PM   #20
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Lots of things can be done with SW... it is rumored that BMW "tinkered" with the first 1M press cars, and then later when those cars came in for service... bmw detuned them. Just like BMW has been doing with our N54's and N55's for the anti-tuner sw(the engine runs quieter bc the wastgates are open more, plus fuel injector noise is quieter, at the expense of throttle response and a slight Hp loss).

Check out Artemis 's great thread about it. ( I believe its true, that BMW did this).

Name:  Special 1M tune for Press cars   Screenshot.jpg
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Was the 1M detuned to 340 hp ?
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=894101



And speaking of SW... there is my "imfamous" screen shot of the 1M's HP(before) the 1M was sold. This screen shot burned up the internet forum all around the world.

Name:  1M_BMW_engine_specs1.jpg
Views: 350
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      04-10-2014, 06:11 PM   #21
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As a matter of fact most of the 335is's I see are DCT's so not sure where they got that info from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patronus86 View Post
Dackelone,
Thanks for the tip.

As for the 335is torque stats, I don't know. Every review and official spec sheet I've read has both the AT and 6MT listed for 332lb-ft with the 370lb-ft overboost. The 335is engine is pretty much tuned the same way the 1M's is, so I think the PPK is slightly different. I'm sure someone has dyno tested too. And DCT is offered for the 335is, in fact its listed as one of the options in the screenshot you posted.

I do know that the new F3x 3 and 4 series have have the PPK as options and there is slight difference in the hp/torque between 6MT and AT for that option (i think AT can get a slightly higher tune than the 6MT). That might be what you are thinking of.
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      04-11-2014, 02:59 AM   #22
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As a matter of fact most of the 335is's I see are DCT's so not sure where they got that info from?

The ONLY bmw's to get a DCT is the 135i and the M3 e9x series. The 335is has a ZF automatic. So does the F2x M135i(has aZF auto and not a DCT like most people think).

The new ZF eight speed auto's are so fast it's almost like a DCT.


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