Power loss after DME Reprogram on N55 2011 135i

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I don't know why they would do this, but...

I think the slow-er throttle response is a by product of the wastegate(s) being open more with this "new" SW update. Open WG's = slower boost build up = less rattles at part throttle. I think it's that simple.


Less boost = less power = detune (in my book).

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

It will be interesting to see what kind of (de)tune we get with this new SIB 12-22-11.

Maybe BMW is just gonna give out PPK.1's and not tell the customers.


Keep us updated jobe1k!

This new software is good to know.
However, isn't that new software for the N55.
Is there an updated software version for our N54?

You and I have N54's and I don't recall if you've had any new versions since we last discussed this issue.
I've only has one update done and that was the one that started this whole mess for my 135i.
My car is due for maintenance and I'll be taking it in with a week.
I'll report if a new version gets applied and if so what it feels like.
I hope they fixed something.
I'm not about to pay BMW for a "performance" upgrade just so I can get my throttle response back. I already paid for performance once, and I'd just like it to be like it was.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I think the slow-er throttle response is a by product of the wastegate(s) being open more with this "new" SW update. Open WG's = slower boost build up = less rattles at part throttle. I think it's that simple.


Less boost = less power = detune (in my book).

True, less boost is less power.
I don't feel that there is less boost.
Overall power feels the same.
But, how quickly that boost builds is slower.
That's still technically a "detune" as it's now tuned to be LESS responsive.
I just wanted to clarify what I think the "detune" is, because most people will associate a "detune" with 'less power' and in my case it's not so much less power as 'slower to respond'.
You can have more power, but that doesn't fix how quickly the engine will respond to the drivers request for that power.

I believe we're all in agreement that what was done just simply SUCKS!
SO, I'm with you all the way.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by RPM90

This new software is good to know.
However, isn't that new software for the N55.
Is there an updated software version for our N54?

You and I have N54's and I don't recall if you've had any new versions since we last discussed this issue.
I've only has one update done and that was the one that started this whole mess for my 135i.
My car is due for maintenance and I'll be taking it in with a week.
I'll report if a new version gets applied and if so what it feels like.
I hope they fixed something.
I'm not about to pay BMW for a "performance" upgrade just so I can get my throttle response back. I already paid for performance once, and I'd just like it to be like it was.

Yes, I have a N54. And yes, like you when I got my one and only SW update - I got stuck with this detune. It was enough to make me go out and get a German flash tune to 'fix" the throttle response. I also got a 80 HP gain in power too(with my flash tune!).

I believe that BMW has this SW "update" for both N55 and N54's. At first all the N55 guys said it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then some guys with acute "butt dyno's" noticed the loss of throttle response and power after their updates.

DriveHard has pointed out that SIB 12-22-11 has nothing to do with our twin turbo engines. It has to do with fuel evap on the 6er engine. We are still waiting for an update on this SIB#'s, but I think R&T got the info wrong. Maybe BMW just threw them a bone to shut Road & Track magazine up. ???


I don't know how you can live with this SW update for as long as you have. I had mine for just one month and it was unbearable!!!


Dack

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I think the slow-er throttle response is a by product of the wastegate(s) being open more with this "new" SW update. Open WG's = slower boost buildup = less rattles at part throttle. I think it's that simple.


Less boost = less power = detune (in my book).

For discussion, I'd like to offer this.
If I recall correctly, the WG issue was an earlier build issue that BMW attempted to fix with software, but they ended up fixing the problem with a WG hardware change. That software I believe resulted in opening the WG's a bit to reduce rattle, but then it introduced lag.
The fix was a hardware change, which all cars after 2008 received.

I don't see how opening the WG's was needed for 1's after the new hardware. Where did you read that the software we have actually opened the WG's?
If this is part of a newer program then what I have, it has me concerned because I am taking my 1 in for service soon.
I'll have to tell them about the WG adjustment you mentioned.

I don't see how the "ticking" that's inherent to DI engines is going to be fixed by opening the WG's, so I don't see why BMW would do that.
Lag is what would be introduced by opening the gates a bit, but I don't have additional turbo lag, I have a lack of throttle response which is a different feel.
IOW, I have experienced an increase in turbo lag, which would be more pronounced if the WG's were opened with the software I received.
Maybe you received a SW that was newer than mine?
IT sucks that we can't readily have access to SW versions as it would help us know what to compare. But then, it's a good way for BMW to keep us guessing.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by RPM90

True, less boost is less power.
I don't feel that there is less boost.
Overall power feels the same.
But, how quickly that boost builds is slower.
That's still technically a "detune" as it's now tuned to be LESS responsive.
I just wanted to clarify what I think the "detune" is, because most people will associate a "detune" with 'less power' and in my case it's not so much less power as 'slower to respond'.
You can have more power, but that doesn't fix how quickly the engine will respond to the drivers request for that power.

I believe we're all in agreement that what was done just simply SUCKS!
SO, I'm with you all the way.

Yes, I agree with you too. This SW update thing just sucks for the performance oriented driver.

I agree too with your detune statement. While technically the engine HP feels "almost" the same - it did feel a few ponies less to me. Maybe 20 HP or so. Still with the update... I am sure the car had 300 HP, its just the engine felt sooooo much better before the SW update. All that snappy throttle response and pull at part throttle was gone, post update.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I don't know how you can live with this SW update for as long as you have. I had mine for just one month and it was unbearable!!!


Dack

Yeah, I know.
Mostly, for me, it's the fact that I'm leasing and knew that around June 2012 I would get something else.
I couldn't justify the $700 for the actual software uptune as I would only have it for less than a year and some months.

Then the PPK came up and I was intrigued, but I couldn't justify it for the same reason. I just decided to live with it. I don't track my car so that affected my decision as well. If I tracked, you bet I would have done something because the lack of throttle response would really suck at the track.

BTW, I did get a CAN cable.
I used it to hijack the fuel gauge so that I could see boost.
At peak my engine is boosting what it should.
For me it confirmed that BMW didn't cut the max boost level.
I wish I had a way to measure how long it takes to build that boost at various rpm, and at various speeds like from a stop or from 55mph in 3rd going from part throttle to full.
That is my biggest complaint and where I feel the worst throttle response.
If I'm moving at speed, let's say 3rd gear, and I'm steady at part throttle, then I go WFO, it takes longer for the engine to respond than before the update.
In my 135i, the power gush comes slower and it feels at times like it's a 2 part power curve.
IOW, I'm steady state in 3rd not slowing or accelerating. I go WFO, I can do a "one one-thous...." count and then I feel the power surge.
But, instead of it coming as one smooth curve upward, I get a power surge...then a second hard surge/push.

That 2 part surge isn't every time though.
The delay is every time. Sometimes, the surge is one smooth upward curve.
However, that could be related to exterior incoming air temps, as the surge feels stronger when it's below 32F.
The 2 part surge seems to be related to hotter temps where there could be more knock events.

Seems we're feeling the same thing just relating it a bit differently.
You and I have had only 1 update so it's very likely it's the same version.
As I said, I'll be in to BMW within a week and I'll report if they do an update.
If so, this time I will DEMAND they give me a version number.
Last time I asked for the software version after a week or two after picking up my car, and the SA made it seem like it would be a hassle to find the number.
This time I'll be more insistent.

[Dackelone]

^^Yea... well I don't track either, but I do have this sort of track called an Autobahn just down the street from here.

[rudyv1]

what "xenon warranty' are you referring?

Once I had the adaptive xenon headlight failure icon show up, but never again, which worries me since my warranty is running out in Aug 2012...

Thanks

[wibbles]

Sorry to drag this thread up from the dead, I recently had my DME updated because of an Engine management light coming on due to a VANOS problem.

After getting the car back it was awful to drive, exactly the way you guys are describing, 1/2 second delay on the throttle, no low down power & exhaust muted - basically they cut the balls off my car

Anyway, I managed to get a goodwill compensation out of BMW & need to decide what to do. I can get the PPK but I'm wary of spending out on this if it isn't going to fix the issue.

Can someone that had the sh1t update post a video of the car revving at idle?

I've made a video of the symptoms of my car:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qoreo7ENTsQ



The other option is to have the software reverted, but I don't know for sure that can be done...

Thanks

[shodanusmc]

Got the PPK1 on my car 2 months ago. Love it. It is now better than it was new, before the SW update. Just a shame I had to spend money on what should have been standard.

[wibbles]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

Got the PPK1 on my car 2 months ago. Love it. It is now better than it was new, before the SW update. Just a shame I had to spend money on what should have been standard.

Was yours like mine in the video above?

Can you post a video so I can see the revs @ accelerator pedal response?

Many thanks

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by wibbles

Sorry to drag this thread up from the dead, I recently had my DME updated because of an Engine management light coming on due to a VANOS problem.

After getting the car back it was awful to drive, exactly the way you guys are describing, 1/2 second delay on the throttle, no low down power & exhaust muted - basically they cut the balls off my car

Anyway, I managed to get a goodwill compensation out of BMW & need to decide what to do. I can get the PPK but I'm wary of spending out on this if it isn't going to fix the issue.

Can someone that had the sh1t update post a video of the car revving at idle?

I've made a video of the symptoms of my car:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qoreo7ENTsQ

The other option is to have the software reverted, but I don't know for sure that can be done...

Thanks

BMW can not reload your old dme SW. You are now stuck with this new level SW flash. Your original SW is gone forever.

From all reports the PPK1 SW flash seems to put the car back to normal, with a small bump in HP (+20HP). I have not seen/read a signle post of someone who was unhappy with the PPK after getting BMW's latest de-tune SW update.

I would take BMW up on their PPK1 tune/offer. I think you will be happy with the results and throttle response.


I think BMW thinks anyone who doesn't buy a M car must be clueless and they can do what ever they want to our dme SW. Seems to me that the PPK1 is a way they identify the customer as being "sensitive" to throttle response and power delivery - so that is a way they get around their crappy new SW for our cars.


What ever you do... please update us and let us know how you made out.



Dackel

[ba83]

I need to go for my second service and now after going over this thread I am pissed.

Detuning the car and then asking to do a PPK to get the throttle response back is a F**ked up way to squeeze money out of the consumer.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by ba83

I need to go for my second service and now after going over this thread I am pissed.

Detuning the car and then asking to do a PPK to get the throttle response back is a F**ked up way to squeeze money out of the consumer.

It might just be worth it to change your oil yourself or have your indi shop do it for you. There really is not much to BMW "free" services besides oil and filter and maybe wiper blades and a pollen filter. Just my two cents worth.

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by wibbles

Sorry to drag this thread up from the dead, I recently had my DME updated because of an Engine management light coming on due to a VANOS problem.

After getting the car back it was awful to drive, exactly the way you guys are describing, 1/2 second delay on the throttle, no low down power & exhaust muted - basically they cut the balls off my car

Anyway, I managed to get a goodwill compensation out of BMW & need to decide what to do. I can get the PPK but I'm wary of spending out on this if it isn't going to fix the issue.

Can someone that had the sh1t update post a video of the car revving at idle?

I've made a video of the symptoms of my car:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qoreo7ENTsQ

The other option is to have the software reverted, but I don't know for sure that can be done...

Thanks

I went through the same issue and my dealer offered me the PPK really cheap. Get it, it's the only way your car comes back to life along with a little extra oomph. Yes that video is great it shows exactly what happens, but the PPK is your best option. The exhaust will sounder louder and start popping again. For me the best result of the PPK is throttle response.

[wibbles]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

I went through the same issue and my dealer offered me the PPK really cheap. Get it, it's the only way your car comes back to life along with a little extra oomph. Yes that video is great it shows exactly what happens, but the PPK is your busy option. The exhaust will sounder louder and start popping again. For me the best result of the PPK is throttle response.

Can you make a video of your car for me?

Thank you

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by wibbles

Can you make a video of your car for me?

Thank you

I'll try to do it after work today.

[wibbles]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

I'll try to do it after work today.

You are a gentleman, thank you Sir!

If I wasn't on the wrong side of the pond, I would buy you a beer.

[ba83]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

I went through the same issue and my dealer offered me the PPK really cheap. Get it, it's the only way your car comes back to life along with a little extra oomph. Yes that video is great it shows exactly what happens, but the PPK is your best option. The exhaust will sounder louder and start popping again. For me the best result of the PPK is throttle response.

what is really cheap for PPK , The lowest I have seen is $780 installed

[Mark16q]

Wow. Just watched the video and can't believe the delay. My '10 just had the PPK installed and loving it, but the lag wasn't that bad on mine before the PPK based on the vid. Maybe mine didn't have the latest DME upgrade, though I've had the car in for ipod addition and they had to reprogram so would've thought mine was the latest not so greatest.

Whatever the case, if they'll take good care of you on the PPK upgrade, highly recommended.

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by ba83

what is really cheap for PPK , The lowest I have seen is $780 installed

Ha, like $340. I was pissed though.