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      02-08-2012, 12:09 PM   #111
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, but I do have a solar array that makes my electricity so I'm not paying that now anyway.
Just a quick OT about this.

Is it true that if your solar array generates more power than you consume that it will actually turn your meter backwards?

Ive been debating a solar array on my lawn to power and heat my pool in the summer. Interested to see if this rumor is true
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      02-08-2012, 12:23 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Just a quick OT about this.

Is it true that if your solar array generates more power than you consume that it will actually turn your meter backwards?

Ive been debating a solar array on my lawn to power and heat my pool in the summer. Interested to see if this rumor is true
I work in the industry.

Yes. This is called net metering. During the day when you are at work and the AC is not on, your meter will turn backwards as power flows to the grid (the array produces more power than you consume). At night your meter will begin to roll forward again as you consume power from the grid.

Last edited by burnsniper; 02-08-2012 at 12:30 PM.
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      02-08-2012, 12:33 PM   #113
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I work in the industry.

Yes. This is called net metering. During the day when you are at work and the AC is not on, your meter will turn backwards as power flows to the grid (the array produces more power than you consume). At night your meter will begin to roll forward again as you consume power from the grid.
Ohh thats very cool and nice to get a confirmation on
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      02-08-2012, 12:41 PM   #114
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Yep, exactly. My meter used to spin backwards, but my utility came and installed a new digital meter that has two readings. One measures how much the house takes from the grid and the other measures how much I feed to the grid. Same principle, but I'm told this is more accurate. The meters weren't really designed to spin backwards(at least that's what my utility told me) and they weren't ac accurate as they would like when measuring the electricity flow out of the house.
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      02-08-2012, 02:03 PM   #115
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Yep, exactly. My meter used to spin backwards, but my utility came and installed a new digital meter that has two readings. One measures how much the house takes from the grid and the other measures how much I feed to the grid. Same principle, but I'm told this is more accurate. The meters weren't really designed to spin backwards(at least that's what my utility told me) and they weren't ac accurate as they would like when measuring the electricity flow out of the house.
The meter manufacturer/technology will depend on the local Electric Distribution Company (EDC).
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      02-08-2012, 03:07 PM   #116
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Ohh thats very cool and nice to get a confirmation on
But the future might not be quite that simple. In that process you are using the utility as a battery to store your energy when you send power back through the grid. There are already proposals with some state's public utility commission to charge for that service, and it probably makes sense as there is a cost to the utility for the wires and hardware even if your bill nets zero. I am also in the industry and I am sure that will be happening in the coming years making the payback a bit tougher. Some will put their own battery systems in place and that will have a cost associated with it as well.
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      02-08-2012, 06:14 PM   #117
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It's $2,250 down and $499 month plus MV fees, state taxes, licensing, etc. and it's a two year lease. Yes the dealers will try to sell you the tire/wheel insurance and other stuff. I'm in NJ and electric vehicles are tax exempt so I didn't have to pay sales tax which was a great savings.

"I'm assuming you're able shutdown a lot of electronics to maybe increase your run time. does it have heated seats? How much has your home electricity bill increased since the purchase?"

The electronics don't draw as much as you would think, except the heater. Yes it has heated seats and from what I'm told they use less energy so I use them a lot. I've been driving electric for about three years now(had the MINI-E) so I know a lot about the energy cost. The car uses about 30-33kWh to go 100 miles. Take a look at you electricity bill, it tells you what you are paying for a kWh; it varies throughout the country. The National average is 12 cents per kWh. So it costs about $3.75 to drive 100 miles. The car has an EPA MPGe rating of 102MPGe combined which is spot on if you look at my calculations. In other words, it's the equivalent of a gas car that gets about 100 mpg in it's energy usage.
I drive a lot (30k per year) and it would cost me about $1,600 per year in electricity, but I do have a solar array that makes my electricity so I'm not paying that now anyway.

Here in "Green" NYC, we pay around 22/23 cents p/KWH.

At that price, electric cars s u ck.

Mayor Green-berg, Inc. says we should ride bicycles.
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      02-08-2012, 06:28 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsniper View Post
I work in the industry.

Yes. This is called net metering. During the day when you are at work and the AC is not on, your meter will turn backwards as power flows to the grid (the array produces more power than you consume). At night your meter will begin to roll forward again as you consume power from the grid.
Yes don't forget to mention that the power companies don't exactly buy power back at the same rate they sell it to you for. Especially where there is multiple tier pricing(kinda like stick it to the rich who use a lot of powah and charge them 4 time as much per kWh in the highest tier).

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Here in "Green" NYC, we pay around 22/23 cents p/KWH.

At that price, electric cars s u ck.

Mayor Green-berg, Inc. says we should ride bicycles.
You clearly don't know what the hell you are talking about. Even at 22cents/kWh that is still waaaaaaay less than it would cost to operate a 128 with petrol. About 1/5th the cost!

"BMW says that the Active should use about 22 kWh per 100 miles. Electricity costs vary, but a typical 10,000-mile driving year should cost about $325 for electricity in the states where the ActiveE is offered. That compares with about $1500 per year for gasoline for a 128i. "
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      02-08-2012, 06:34 PM   #119
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saw one @ the SAVAGE BMW showroom yesterday
was told they are not available to lease in our area until June

2500 USD downpayment
500 USD/month 2 year lease payment
unlimited mileage

3000 USD optional charging station for home (4 hours for complete charge or it will charge off standard wall in 24 hours...)

estimated yearly cost for electricity $550 (average savings of $7500 over 5 years)
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      02-08-2012, 08:42 PM   #120
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[quote=Mr.Metak2you;11307022]Yes don't forget to mention that the power companies don't exactly buy power back at the same rate they sell it to you for. Especially where there is multiple tier pricing(kinda like stick it to the rich who use a lot of powah and charge them 4 time as much per kWh in the highest tier).

You clearly don't know what the hell you are talking about. Even at 22cents/kWh that is still waaaaaaay less than it would cost to operate a 128 with petrol. About 1/5th the cost!

"BMW says that the Active should use about 22 kWh per 100 miles. Electricity costs vary, but a typical 10,000-mile driving year should cost about $325 for electricity in the states where the ActiveE is offered. That compares with about $1500 per year for gasoline for a 128i. "[/QU

In most states, as long as you are not a net generator over the course of year you will get the majority of the power charges credited back to you when you net meter (based on individual state laws). Also, most of other charges (time of use, etc.) are often reduced to near zero because solar systems usually produce the most when the grid experiences the greatest demand (middle of day to afternoon).

Unfortunately, most residential solar systems are really only for the wealthy or those with very good credit. A solar system that offsets ~90% of a typical US house's power will cost $28,000-$40,000. However, this can be a great investment in certain states where you break even on your investment in as little as 3 years (tax credit + state level incentive + power savings).

Solar systems make the most sense in the following states based:
Great to Very Good - MA, CT, NJ, CA, HI
Good to Fair - AZ, NM, OH, NC, MD, CO
In Some Instances - DE, IL, GA, OR
Poor - Pretty much everywhere else
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      02-09-2012, 12:33 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by EINSER M View Post
saw one @ the SAVAGE BMW showroom yesterday
was told they are not available to lease in our area until June

2500 USD downpayment
500 USD/month 2 year lease payment
unlimited mileage

3000 USD optional charging station for home (4 hours for complete charge or it will charge off standard wall in 24 hours...)

estimated yearly cost for electricity $550 (average savings of $7500 over 5 years)
The person that told you that was wrong! They are available now and there are only a few left(maybe 150 or so of the 700 available) There is no way any of them will be available in June. The application process opened on January 20th and you can walk in to a dealer now and fill out the paper work and have one reserved for you.

Also the EVSE(charger) can cost that much if the labor is very high. You can buy one for under $1,000 and install it yourself(with your own electrician) It just needs a dedicated 40 amp circuit run to your garage (#8 wire). The electrical contractors that are installing these are in many cases ripping people off, it's a very simple, three wire connection, that's all. I've installed three of them myself and I'm not an electrician.
If your smart about it, you can buy one and install it for under $1,000. Paying $3,000 for one is a joke. I have two of them in my garage, see the pic below:
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      02-09-2012, 01:06 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Just a quick OT about this.

Is it true that if your solar array generates more power than you consume that it will actually turn your meter backwards?

Ive been debating a solar array on my lawn to power and heat my pool in the summer. Interested to see if this rumor is true
Yes. For pool heat you are looking at 30-50 yers ROA. For Basic power it is more practical.
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      02-09-2012, 01:11 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
Here in "Green" NYC, we pay around 22/23 cents p/KWH.

At that price, electric cars s u ck.

Mayor Green-berg, Inc. says we should ride bicycles.
Whats the night rate?

In NYC you can take the subway or hop on a scooter.

Who owns a car in NYC anayway???
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      02-09-2012, 01:11 PM   #124
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tommolog. Ive been trying to do just that. I pick up my car in 2 weeks and I havent been able to find a cheap one to buy so that I can install.

Do you happen to know where to look?
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      02-09-2012, 01:14 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by EINSER M View Post
saw one @ the SAVAGE BMW showroom yesterday
was told they are not available to lease in our area until June

2500 USD downpayment
500 USD/month 2 year lease payment
unlimited mileage

3000 USD optional charging station for home (4 hours for complete charge or it will charge off standard wall in 24 hours...)

estimated yearly cost for electricity $550 (average savings of $7500 over 5 years)
$550/yr at what mileage?????
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      02-09-2012, 01:20 PM   #126
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The person that told you that was wrong! They are available now and there are only a few left(maybe 150 or so of the 700 available) There is no way any of them will be available in June. The application process opened on January 20th and you can walk in to a dealer now and fill out the paper work and have one reserved for you.

Also the EVSE(charger) can cost that much if the labor is very high. You can buy one for under $1,000 and install it yourself(with your own electrician) It just needs a dedicated 40 amp circuit run to your garage (#8 wire). The electrical contractors that are installing these are in many cases ripping people off, it's a very simple, three wire connection, that's all. I've installed three of them myself and I'm not an electrician.
If your smart about it, you can buy one and install it for under $1,000. Paying $3,000 for one is a joke. I have two of them in my garage, see the pic below:
Agree, ...and you should turn this into a group buy and get it down to $500.
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      02-09-2012, 01:21 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommolog View Post
The person that told you that was wrong! They are available now and there are only a few left(maybe 150 or so of the 700 available) There is no way any of them will be available in June. The application process opened on January 20th and you can walk in to a dealer now and fill out the paper work and have one reserved for you.

Also the EVSE(charger) can cost that much if the labor is very high. You can buy one for under $1,000 and install it yourself(with your own electrician) It just needs a dedicated 40 amp circuit run to your garage (#8 wire). The electrical contractors that are installing these are in many cases ripping people off, it's a very simple, three wire connection, that's all. I've installed three of them myself and I'm not an electrician.
If your smart about it, you can buy one and install it for under $1,000. Paying $3,000 for one is a joke. I have two of them in my garage, see the pic below:
oh i had a question. is the charging handle the same for all electric cars? ie will it plug into a nissan leaf and charge for example?
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      02-09-2012, 01:22 PM   #128
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Agree, ...and you should turn this into a group buy and get it down to $500.
Id be behind it being $500
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      02-09-2012, 01:56 PM   #129
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My dealer (BMW North Haven Ct) has one in the showroom floor.
I know they are only being leased but the MSRP on the window sticker was a little over $60,000 !!!!!!!
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      02-09-2012, 02:00 PM   #130
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Find a way to crank out some more AMPS! I wanna see ActiveE 400HP concept!
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      02-09-2012, 07:03 PM   #131
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oh i had a question. is the charging handle the same for all electric cars? ie will it plug into a nissan leaf and charge for example?
Yes it will. The connector is the SAE standard J1772 connector. Everyone is using them except Tesla. Tesla is walking to their own beat and developed a connector in-house that can accommodate a higher rate of charge than the J1772 can. Tesla needs it because they put huge battery packs in their cars for long range. the OEM's aren't going that way because that makes the cars too expensive to go mainstream.
The battery pack alone in the Tesla Model S Sport costs $45,000 to $50,000! but the car can seat 7, go about 300 miles per charge and does 0-60 in about 4.4 seconds.
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      02-09-2012, 07:21 PM   #132
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tommolog. Ive been trying to do just that. I pick up my car in 2 weeks and I havent been able to find a cheap one to buy so that I can install.

Do you happen to know where to look?
Lowes sells the GE wattstation for $999. Here's the link:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_107343-76863-EVWSWBC-CP01_0__


Aerovironment sell the BMW EVSE direct for I think the same price. However I would suggest you look on Ebay. You may find one for less. You can use any 30amp EVSE other than the one made by Schneider because for some reason it doesn't work on the ActiveE. BMW and Schneider and BMW are working on figuring out why.
The big savings is in the labor. Do you know any electricians? is the run from your panel far to your garage? Do you have space in your panel for the 40 amp double-pole breaker? These things matter a lot with the installation cost. If you lived near me I would have helped you do it yourself. I installed the one on the right in the picture myself.
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