BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

View Poll Results: Which tuner
Cobb 34 35.05%
Ess 11 11.34%
Giac 10 10.31%
Dinan 5 5.15%
Jb4 19 19.59%
Evolve 14 14.43%
Epic 1 1.03%
Burger 2 2.06%
Evo tech 0 0%
Kelleners 1 1.03%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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      02-29-2012, 05:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Sheil View Post
Thanks!

Are you thinking about flashing your 1M?

I'm looking into the Akra exhausts and I see that you have the slip on with the maddad midpipes. Have you been able to compare with the full evo Akra setup? Any regrets? Any tips?
Thinking yes, but nothing out there that I've tried is worthwhile at the moment. The sad truth (which tuners won't readily admit) is that the aftermarket is not spending the necessary R&D time to develop a real true tune for the 1///M, or as I call it, peel the onion in full. Whatever is out there is a basically an overlay of their existing N54 product offering, so the 1///M feels...well, like a tuned 135i. The behavior and character of the car is adversely affected to the point it doesnt feel like the special M car that it is. Sooo, lots more wood to be chopped IMO.

As far as the mid pipe, I had the MadDad left over from my 135i days and I love it. Fit and finish is great, no issue with the integration with the Akra. It still saves you good weight over the stock (Akra is marginally more because of the Ti material but it is only nominal). Most of what you pick up in gains is from the mid pipe (my setup resulted in 10whp gains, without allowing for any adaptation, so perhaps by now there is a bit more). I couldn't justify spending the full amount for the Evolution when the aftermarket mid pipe achieves pretty much the same (HP and weight wise). But the valve feature is a must IMO, makes a very big difference sound wise, and frankly, the only exhaust I have heard that makes the 1///M sound completely different. A lot of the other offerings still make it too close in sound to an aftermarket exhaust on a 135i. Just my $0.02, I realize I may be hurting some people's feelings but that was my take on it. Lastly - you ask about tips. I went with CF as they are really unique and integrate well with the BMW Performance spoiler, my CF roof wrap, and eventually whatever CF diffuser I decide to do (Revo or SleK). I prefer black tips as well, if the Ti tips were offered in black it would have been a tougher decision, but once you see the quality of the CF tips, you'll be sold! Best of luck!
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      02-29-2012, 05:45 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
Thinking yes, but nothing out there that I've tried is worthwhile at the moment. The sad truth (which tuners won't readily admit) is that the aftermarket is not spending the necessary R&D time to develop a real true tune for the 1///M, or as I call it, peel the onion in full. Whatever is out there is a basically an overlay of their existing N54 product offering, so the 1///M feels...well, like a tuned 135i. The behavior and character of the car is adversely affected to the point it doesnt feel like the special M car that it is. Sooo, lots more wood to be chopped IMO.

As far as the mid pipe, I had the MadDad left over from my 135i days and I love it. Fit and finish is great, no issue with the integration with the Akra. It still saves you good weight over the stock (Akra is marginally more because of the Ti material but it is only nominal). Most of what you pick up in gains is from the mid pipe (my setup resulted in 10whp gains, without allowing for any adaptation, so perhaps by now there is a bit more). I couldn't justify spending the full amount for the Evolution when the aftermarket mid pipe achieves pretty much the same (HP and weight wise). But the valve feature is a must IMO, makes a very big difference sound wise, and frankly, the only exhaust I have heard that makes the 1///M sound completely different. A lot of the other offerings still make it too close in sound to an aftermarket exhaust on a 135i. Just my $0.02, I realize I may be hurting some people's feelings but that was my take on it. Lastly - you ask about tips. I went with CF as they are really unique and integrate well with the BMW Performance spoiler, my CF roof wrap, and eventually whatever CF diffuser I decide to do (Revo or SleK). I prefer black tips as well, if the Ti tips were offered in black it would have been a tougher decision, but once you see the quality of the CF tips, you'll be sold! Best of luck!
Very much appreciated, gives new perspectives to this otherwise "mine is very good" kind of developing thread
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      02-29-2012, 07:19 PM   #25
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Using COBB on my 1M, loved it on my 135i, love it on the 1M too!
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      03-01-2012, 05:04 AM   #26
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Thanks!!

That's what I thought too. The companies that spend actual R&D time developing proper tunes make you pay for it! Just compare the price of an ESS or Evolve tune, $900, vs a Kelleners or Dähler which is minimum €3000...

As for the full evo Akra vs Akra slip-ons with N55 or third party midpipes the price difference is considerable! So I'm glad that you think it's overpriced for what it is and that it works just fine with your MadDad pipes! I'm also definitely getting the wireless kit as without it you're really only getting two working tips because of the blocking plate.

One more question - what exactly do you gain from modifying the clutch delay valve? Are you getting more grip when the clutch is engaged? Do you get smoother shifts and less bobbing back and forth?

Thanks again for your words of wisdom!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
Thinking yes, but nothing out there that I've tried is worthwhile at the moment. The sad truth (which tuners won't readily admit) is that the aftermarket is not spending the necessary R&D time to develop a real true tune for the 1///M, or as I call it, peel the onion in full. Whatever is out there is a basically an overlay of their existing N54 product offering, so the 1///M feels...well, like a tuned 135i. The behavior and character of the car is adversely affected to the point it doesnt feel like the special M car that it is. Sooo, lots more wood to be chopped IMO.

As far as the mid pipe, I had the MadDad left over from my 135i days and I love it. Fit and finish is great, no issue with the integration with the Akra. It still saves you good weight over the stock (Akra is marginally more because of the Ti material but it is only nominal). Most of what you pick up in gains is from the mid pipe (my setup resulted in 10whp gains, without allowing for any adaptation, so perhaps by now there is a bit more). I couldn't justify spending the full amount for the Evolution when the aftermarket mid pipe achieves pretty much the same (HP and weight wise). But the valve feature is a must IMO, makes a very big difference sound wise, and frankly, the only exhaust I have heard that makes the 1///M sound completely different. A lot of the other offerings still make it too close in sound to an aftermarket exhaust on a 135i. Just my $0.02, I realize I may be hurting some people's feelings but that was my take on it. Lastly - you ask about tips. I went with CF as they are really unique and integrate well with the BMW Performance spoiler, my CF roof wrap, and eventually whatever CF diffuser I decide to do (Revo or SleK). I prefer black tips as well, if the Ti tips were offered in black it would have been a tougher decision, but once you see the quality of the CF tips, you'll be sold! Best of luck!

Last edited by Sheil; 03-01-2012 at 05:11 AM.
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      03-01-2012, 08:38 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MDORPHN View Post
I was going to quickly answer that it was a poll on flash tunes -- not piggybacks like the Procede -- but then I noticed that Burger and JB4 (which are one and the same) was also listed and, like Procede, is a piggyback.

Seems a bit confused!

Neil
See my acknowledgement of the duplication above.
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      03-02-2012, 05:26 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Sheil View Post
Thanks!!

That's what I thought too. The companies that spend actual R&D time developing proper tunes make you pay for it! Just compare the price of an ESS or Evolve tune, $900, vs a Kelleners or Dähler which is minimum €3000...

As for the full evo Akra vs Akra slip-ons with N55 or third party midpipes the price difference is considerable! So I'm glad that you think it's overpriced for what it is and that it works just fine with your MadDad pipes! I'm also definitely getting the wireless kit as without it you're really only getting two working tips because of the blocking plate.

One more question - what exactly do you gain from modifying the clutch delay valve? Are you getting more grip when the clutch is engaged? Do you get smoother shifts and less bobbing back and forth?

Thanks again for your words of wisdom!
Sheil, on your CDV question, better than me answering you in my layman terms, here is the formal writeup from Dave Zeckhausen, a personal friend and resident brake expert.

http://www.zeckhausen.com/cdv.htm
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      03-02-2012, 05:29 PM   #29
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See my acknowledgement of the duplication above.
supercharged, can you add Renntech to your list above? After all, they made 3x the delta relative to a well known option listed here (same car, same day, same dyno, pulls 1/2 hr of each other, in fact car was never unstrapped).
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      03-02-2012, 08:17 PM   #30
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Unfortunately, I don't think I can modify the list. Just a reminder to all those voting, this poll is for 1m only. It seems some with 135i's are also polling, and I think we are getting a lot more Cobb votes as a result.
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      03-02-2012, 09:27 PM   #31
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I'm running Epic's tune. Lots of low end power and great top end power (doesnt drop off at high rpms). Everytime i flash back to stock, the car feels slow...and i wonder how folks drive stock...hehe.

I will be getting Epic's tune when i get the e46 m3.
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      03-05-2012, 10:33 PM   #32
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Is there a clear winner between ess, jb4 and Cobb?
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      03-05-2012, 10:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Using COBB on my 1M, loved it on my 135i, love it on the 1M too!
Are you using stage 1 or stage 2?
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      03-06-2012, 12:08 AM   #34
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Are you using stage 1 or stage 2?
There is no stage II yet, in fact technically there is no official Stage I yet, only Beta.
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      03-06-2012, 06:36 PM   #35
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This is getting painful. Please, only participate if you are flashing a 1m. Thanks.
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      03-06-2012, 07:45 PM   #36
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Unfortunately, I don't think I can modify the list. Just a reminder to all those voting, this poll is for 1m only. It seems some with 135i's are also polling, and I think we are getting a lot more Cobb votes as a result.
FWIW, I personally know of at least 4 1Ms that are running the Cobb flash tune, and I'm certain that there are many more.

Further, these tunes behave similarly on any N54, whether in a 1M, 135i or 335i.

Nei
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      03-06-2012, 09:35 PM   #37
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Oh, I believe there are many 1ms with Cobb, but I can see who votes. There are definitely 128/35 drivers who have voted, and I notice the Cobb numbers increasing correspondingly sometimes (not always, obviously).
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      03-07-2012, 12:54 PM   #38
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Further, these tunes behave similarly on any N54, whether in a 1M, 135i or 335i.
Uhhhh, yes, and this is exactly the issue with the current Beta. The 1M behaves like a tuned 135i, not the smooth and linear M car it ought to be (and is in stock form)... Hence why final version of Stage 1 is so widely anticipated. Hopefully all this time since its 'Christmas release' is used to further develop it, though for a long time they didn't even have a shop car any more...
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      03-07-2012, 05:22 PM   #39
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Are you using stage 1 or stage 2?
Stage 1 beta
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      03-07-2012, 05:27 PM   #40
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Uhhhh, yes, and this is exactly the issue with the current Beta. The 1M behaves like a tuned 135i, not the smooth and linear M car it ought to be (and is in stock form)... Hence why final version of Stage 1 is so widely anticipated. Hopefully all this time since its 'Christmas release' is used to further develop it, though for a long time they didn't even have a shop car any more...
I will disagree, there are two maps available for linear or agressive throttle response, aggressive is more like a tuned 135i, linear is like the 1M only it pulls much harder. On the street agressive is more "fun", on the track linear is the way to go.
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      03-07-2012, 07:21 PM   #41
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I will disagree, there are two maps available for linear or agressive throttle response, aggressive is more like a tuned 135i, linear is like the 1M only it pulls much harder. On the street agressive is more "fun", on the track linear is the way to go.
Well, we can agree to disagree, though Cobb does agree with my observations (not implying one is either right or wrong, all a matter of taste and how you want/expect the power to be delivered). Here is my take on all the maps:

1. Valet - worthy for its purpose but seldom (if at all) used
2. Simulated stock - not sure what is the benefit of running that vs. just flashing back to stock which takes a couple of minutes
3. Linear throttle maps - 2 of them (91 and 93). Worthless to me as it 'disables' the M button. I dunno why would someone prefer to drive these (other than a more linear indeed throttle which makes modulation easier especially in track conditions), we have an M car, equipped with an M button, which I use intermittently on every drive I take (e.g switch it off when it congestion, on otherwise). So no, I don't want to live without that functionality.
4. Aggressive throttle maps - 2 of them (91 and 93). For those with 93 fuel, really one of use.

So at the end of the day, from a total of 6 maps, there is really only one I would use (the one that keeps the M button 'functional', and sadly no choice on throttle linearity, as you either get one or the other). Their tuners have stated they will be working on having the Linear maps incorporate the M button on and off feature, but allegedly it will take time...

Last I heard, the only 'shop' car they were expecting to get was...in Portland. And that was 6 weeks ago, and not heard anything since. Good to check in and see what the the first 10 weeks of the year have meant in terms of development (or lack thereof)... But its a fair statement that there is a lot of wood to chop...
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      03-07-2012, 08:13 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
Uhhhh, yes, and this is exactly the issue with the current Beta. The 1M behaves like a tuned 135i, not the smooth and linear M car it ought to be (and is in stock form)... Hence why final version of Stage 1 is so widely anticipated. Hopefully all this time since its 'Christmas release' is used to further develop it, though for a long time they didn't even have a shop car any more...
Please explain why and what you think is specific to the N54 in the 1M vs the N54 in other applications, that would require a unique tune?

I know the 1M is special, mostly in regards to the chassis and suspension tuning, and of course body work.
In the engine though, there isn't much different that would necessitate a different tune, at least nothing I know of, yet.
I'm no expert on all things 1M.

You say the 1M is smooth and linear, but it's as smooth and linear as a non M N54, stock. Some tunes are better than others in terms of driveability, where piggybacks seem not as smooth and ECU tunes smoother as they control more parameters.

Please explain.

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      03-07-2012, 08:26 PM   #43
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Well, we can agree to disagree, though Cobb does agree with my observations (not implying one is either right or wrong, all a matter of taste and how you want/expect the power to be delivered). Here is my take on all the maps:

1. Valet - worthy for its purpose but seldom (if at all) used
2. Simulated stock - not sure what is the benefit of running that vs. just flashing back to stock which takes a couple of minutes
3. Linear throttle maps - 2 of them (91 and 93). Worthless to me as it 'disables' the M button. I dunno why would someone prefer to drive these (other than a more linear indeed throttle which makes modulation easier especially in track conditions), we have an M car, equipped with an M button, which I use intermittently on every drive I take (e.g switch it off when it congestion, on otherwise). So no, I don't want to live without that functionality.
4. Aggressive throttle maps - 2 of them (91 and 93). For those with 93 fuel, really one of use.

So at the end of the day, from a total of 6 maps, there is really only one I would use (the one that keeps the M button 'functional', and sadly no choice on throttle linearity, as you either get one or the other). Their tuners have stated they will be working on having the Linear maps incorporate the M button on and off feature, but allegedly it will take time...

Last I heard, the only 'shop' car they were expecting to get was...in Portland. And that was 6 weeks ago, and not heard anything since. Good to check in and see what the the first 10 weeks of the year have meant in terms of development (or lack thereof)... But its a fair statement that there is a lot of wood to chop...

Ok. It seems that it comes down to the M button and what it does.
But the M button is simply part of the stock tune. When engaged it draws on a map for quicker throttle response, so that given the same amount of movement in the throttle pedal results in either the throttle valve/plate opens quicker, or the valve opens more given the same pedal input. It could be a bit of both as well.

Still, if it's good for the 1M N54, then it would be as good for the non M N54.
Yes, it would be cool if tuners included options for DBW throttle response curves and throttle opening curves, that could be altered by the driver.
I still don't see how this would be specific to the 1M though.
It would be some added tuneability that any N54 driver might enjoy.
If it were in the software and adjustable, the tuners could use the M button to engage a particular response curve, whereas on a non M the driver may have to use some other button pushes to activate certain throttle response maps, maybe using the curse control where one tap gives 1 map, 2 pushes gives another, etc...
In the 1M the M button could be used to achieve the same things, 1 push, 2 pushes, etc...

So, the only difference there would be the use of the M button vs using some other button on non M's Then, there would be a 1M specific tune, cause of the M button.
It'll allow 1M owners to feel a bit of that M special-ness.
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      03-07-2012, 08:53 PM   #44
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Ok. It seems that it comes down to the M button and what it does.
But the M button is simply part of the stock tune. When engaged it draws on a map for quicker throttle response, so that given the same amount of movement in the throttle pedal results in either the throttle valve/plate opens quicker, or the valve opens more given the same pedal input. It could be a bit of both as well.

Still, if it's good for the 1M N54, then it would be as good for the non M N54.
Yes, it would be cool if tuners included options for DBW throttle response curves and throttle opening curves, that could be altered by the driver.
I still don't see how this would be specific to the 1M though.
It would be some added tuneability that any N54 driver might enjoy.
If it were in the software and adjustable, the tuners could use the M button to engage a particular response curve, whereas on a non M the driver may have to use some other button pushes to activate certain throttle response maps, maybe using the curse control where one tap gives 1 map, 2 pushes gives another, etc...
In the 1M the M button could be used to achieve the same things, 1 push, 2 pushes, etc...

So, the only difference there would be the use of the M button vs using some other button on non M's Then, there would be a 1M specific tune, cause of the M button.
It'll allow 1M owners to feel a bit of that M special-ness.
The flywheel is different... and I think some internal parts of the engine are forged instead of cast, allowing more boost... but I'm not sure.
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463733
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