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      06-08-2012, 01:09 PM   #23
GIdriver
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Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
i see no reason why it wouldnt work

if you add new front sway and some stiffer sway bushings, it could be the answer you are looking for

Thanks a lot!!
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      06-08-2012, 08:28 PM   #24
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I am so pleased with the changes I have made I'm practically silly about it. I feel like I got it "just right". First upgrade was Hotchkis front ASB at about 5K miles, this took out much of the plowing understeer and sharpened turn-in. At 30K miles the stock dampers were toast - I'm talking flip-flop city, with some scary moments (I am an enthusiastic driver)! So, I went with BMWP springs and Bilstien HD dampers, along with Michelin Pilot Super Sports and firmer control arm bushings from HP Autowerks (did the CDV delete at the same time). I never dreamed I could have this much control with this level of comfort - I thought these things would be mutually exclusive but this is not the case. Any body motion brought on by dips, bumps, expansion joints etc, even at speeds far in excess of what is legal or prudent on the street, is brought under control immediately. Where previously you'd prepare for scary moments, now there is no drama at all. And, the way the car just glues itself to the gnarliest, bumpiest backroads New England has to offer is amazing...the ride feels much more "expensive" and the cornering attitude is very neutral, while body roll is greatly diminished. I feel that going any stiffer would sacrifice control on all but the smoothest roads, and would give no advantage at the same time. In short, the car will get around any corner - smooth or bumpy - faster than any sane person would care to drive on the street, with amazing control and confidence. Even with my wife and 2 daughters in the car with me, the suspension is never overwhelmed by any means, and the ride is never uncomfortable. I'm sure the M3 subframe bushings can be a great upgrade with stiffer setups, but I think that my setup is compliant enough to not require them. I will continue to evaluate that.

I am amazed, and so pleased with the decision I made to use these components. I think the Bilstiens are dampers of the highest quality, and that they are a perfect match for the BMWP springs.

EDIT: There is no drop with this setup, so if you're looking to "get down" you'll want something different.
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      06-08-2012, 09:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012one35i View Post
I was planning on keeping my run-flats, but just could not live with the punishment when hitting any kind of road imperfection. I have since switched to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus tires and that was an improvement, but still the car sometimes feels like a bowl of jello. It is just so soft. If I drive over a speed bump, it feels like it's gonna bottom out in the rear. I really don't want to screw up the "BMW ride" I paid for, but the car feels a little scary on undulating roads. I call it "porpoising" for want of a better word. It rocks back and forth like a rocking chair. What do I need to do to fix this, without reinventing the entire suspension?
In this case, a set of quality dampers are mandatory. If you do nothing else, this move will improve your handling and ride tremendously. The stock dampers are crap. Try Koni Sports, Koni FSD's, or Bilstien HD's.
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      06-08-2012, 10:49 PM   #26
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So, I can assume the stock springs are adequate? I don't want to change them if I don't have too. Switching from the run flats fixed one problem, but seems to create some others.....
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      06-09-2012, 03:00 PM   #27
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As KennyPowers says in the 3rd post of this thread, changing the springs to something firmer without changing dampers is the single worst mistake you can make. Conversely, doing the opposite (installing new dampers) is the single best improvement you can make. You will gain lots of control and the car will stop rocking and swaying and bouncing around. If you want more firmness and less lean later, you can upgrade springs or your front anti-sway bar, but now that you've ditched the run-flats, quality dampers (your shocks and struts) will make a huge difference and give you much more control.
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      06-10-2012, 03:00 PM   #28
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Sounds like I found my next upgrade path. Thanks!
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      06-10-2012, 04:13 PM   #29
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I'm watching this space for your driving impressions 2012one35i!
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      06-20-2012, 03:23 PM   #30
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Bilstein HD's ordered. I will report back when I have some info......
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      07-10-2012, 08:49 PM   #31
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Alright, Got the Bilstein HD's installed. All I can say is wow! I thought switching from runflats was most of the problem, but it's more like 40% tires and 60% dampers. My car is done (as far as suspension is concerned).

My only mods to date are:
Replaced runflats with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus (225/255)
Bilstein HD's

The car now drives like any other sporty car. It no longer feels like the wheels are made of cast iron. I just can't get over how much it improved things. I will say the Bilsteins are firm, and you can really feel the road now, but it's not at all unpleasant. The rear does still swim from side to side when you drag race it, but that is the subframe bushings, which I do not intend to replace. All the pogo-stick bounce is gone, and the car is so much more stuck to the ground.

I would say do not do the dampers until you switch out the runflats, or the ride will be too harsh. And as soon as you do switch out the runflats, get the dampers done ASAP. Tires alone will leave you disappointed, I think.

Not cheap for me to have done. $468 for the dampers, and $850 in labor. I had two independent BMW shops give me a quote for the labor, and one wanted more than the dealership ($936), the other didn't want to do it at all. $850 is what the dealership quoted me, so that's how that worked out.

By the way, I have a 2012 with the linear springs, and if you don't want to lower your car, the stock springs are plenty stiff enough.

Last edited by 2012one35i; 07-10-2012 at 11:13 PM.
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      07-11-2012, 10:44 AM   #32
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I did coilovers, camber plates, rear subframe bushings, front sway bar, those are the four key items in my opinion, you can do more but I feel after these four you hit a point of diminishing returns
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      07-11-2012, 11:41 AM   #33
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- Aftermarket sway bar bushings. A good alternative to new sway bars (I'm not a fan of huge sway bars)
Will m3 sway bushings work?
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      07-11-2012, 12:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
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Will m3 sway bushings work?
I think the bars are different thickness, so the bushings would be also. Powerflex makes bushings for all size sway bars.
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      07-18-2012, 09:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012one35i View Post
Alright, Got the Bilstein HD's installed. All I can say is wow! I thought switching from runflats was most of the problem, but it's more like 40% tires and 60% dampers. My car is done (as far as suspension is concerned).

My only mods to date are:
Replaced runflats with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus (225/255)
Bilstein HD's

The car now drives like any other sporty car. It no longer feels like the wheels are made of cast iron. I just can't get over how much it improved things. I will say the Bilsteins are firm, and you can really feel the road now, but it's not at all unpleasant. The rear does still swim from side to side when you drag race it, but that is the subframe bushings, which I do not intend to replace. All the pogo-stick bounce is gone, and the car is so much more stuck to the ground.

I would say do not do the dampers until you switch out the runflats, or the ride will be too harsh. And as soon as you do switch out the runflats, get the dampers done ASAP. Tires alone will leave you disappointed, I think.

Not cheap for me to have done. $468 for the dampers, and $850 in labor. I had two independent BMW shops give me a quote for the labor, and one wanted more than the dealership ($936), the other didn't want to do it at all. $850 is what the dealership quoted me, so that's how that worked out.

By the way, I have a 2012 with the linear springs, and if you don't want to lower your car, the stock springs are plenty stiff enough.
So glad to hear you're happy with the setup!
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      07-18-2012, 11:22 PM   #36
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The more I drive the car, the more amazed I am with the radical difference.
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      09-05-2014, 01:24 PM   #37
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Whats the best shock/spring combo which works with nonrunflats and the m3 subframe bushings? My lease is coming up and I am probably buying the car so it will be in 3-4 months time frame so making a list now.
I am planning to put square rubber on mine preferably 255 (245/35/18 will fit without mods) with the et50 9 inch apex wheels (5mm spacers front rear no spacers et45/et50 final).
Would I be able to fit the 255 rubber up front with JUST camber plates and m3 control arms? Or do I need a shock upgrade to clear the rubber?
Thus far
1. M3 subframe bushings
2. M3 control arms front and maybe camber plates (hoping it will be easy to DIY)
3. Coilovers
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      09-05-2014, 10:05 PM   #38
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Squared up the tires w/non-runflats, added Bilstien HD's w/the stock msport springs, aligned the stock suspension(-.5 camber in front,-1.5 rear, 0 toe). Very happy with the results.
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      09-05-2014, 11:35 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012one35i View Post
Alright, Got the Bilstein HD's installed. All I can say is wow! I thought switching from runflats was most of the problem, but it's more like 40% tires and 60% dampers. My car is done (as far as suspension is concerned).

My only mods to date are:
Replaced runflats with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus (225/255)
Bilstein HD's

The car now drives like any other sporty car. It no longer feels like the wheels are made of cast iron. I just can't get over how much it improved things. I will say the Bilsteins are firm, and you can really feel the road now, but it's not at all unpleasant.

By the way, I have a 2012 with the linear springs, and if you don't want to lower your car, the stock springs are plenty stiff enough.
If you keep the stock springs, I like the Koni FSDs. Maybe the handling isn't as good as the Bilsteins and maybe it is. But I believe the ride is sublime. They're not designed for stiff springs, Koni warns you about that.
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      09-05-2014, 11:44 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Lots of guys install the M3 front sway bar. But I think that can only increase understeer at the limit. The reason why everyone seems to like this mod is bc they get no where near the limit on the street - and the stiffer bar really cuts down on front end sway and makes the steering feel more direct.
Respectfully disagree that a bigger front bar will increase understeer, unless you're running a ton of static negative camber, or pretty stiff front spings. On stock or modestly more negative camber, and street spring rates, I believe the improvement in the camber of the outside wheel swamps out the increased weight transfer to that wheel. And the positive effect only gets better at increased lateral loads.

I think this is true for most cars with front McPherson struts. Their camber curve is so lousy that anything that decreases roll can only help front grip.

On a car with a decent camber curves, say with upper and lower control arms, it would be a different story. Charts that say a bigger front bar will always create understeer simply neglect the camber issue.

Last edited by 128Convertibleguy; 09-05-2014 at 11:49 PM.
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