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      07-10-2014, 06:00 PM   #1
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Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2

These tires are now available in our stock sizes, 245/35 19 and 265/35 19. They are not on the Tire Rack website yet, but they are available for special order. I ordered a set- I'll report back after I get them on the car.

These are the OE tires on the 2014 GT3, Ferrari 458 Speciale, etc. Supposed to be sticky...
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      07-18-2014, 01:24 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
These tires are now available in our stock sizes, 245/35 19 and 265/35 19. They are not on the Tire Rack website yet, but they are available for special order. I ordered a set- I'll report back after I get them on the car.

These are the OE tires on the 2014 GT3, Ferrari 458 Speciale, etc. Supposed to be sticky...
Sticky when warm, but slippery when cold and hot(the old Sport Cups). Perhaps there has been a change in compound and design?
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      07-18-2014, 01:09 PM   #3
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Sticky when warm, but slippery when cold and hot(the old Sport Cups). Perhaps there has been a change in compound and design?
Both compound and design, yes. It's a completely new tire. It has a high 180 treadwear rating, supposed to be ~1.5% faster around an average course, and add significantly greater stability. I do expect they will still need a little heat to work. Same tires the 918 was wearing when it went <7:00 at the ring.
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      07-18-2014, 04:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
These tires are now available in our stock sizes, 245/35 19 and 265/35 19. They are not on the Tire Rack website yet, but they are available for special order. I ordered a set- I'll report back after I get them on the car.

These are the OE tires on the 2014 GT3, Ferrari 458 Speciale, etc. Supposed to be sticky...
Sticky when warm, but slippery when cold and hot(the old Sport Cups). Perhaps there has been a change in compound and design?
Agree. The old ones were definitely less than impressive and they were also quite expensive. When they heat cycled out they became clag magnets and still looked like there was plenty of tread left.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB
Both compound and design, yes. It's a completely new tire. It has a high 180 treadwear rating, supposed to be ~1.5% faster around an average course, and add significantly greater stability. I do expect they will still need a little heat to work. Same tires the 918 was wearing when it went &lt;7:00 at the ring.
I am not yet aware of a " compound change/redesisgn" of a tire with the same name where there was a marked improvement over the original...
Consider... Bridgestone SO- series. (1,2,3,4) , Dunlop Direzza and it's improved version aka star spec, and then star spec II, Hankook RS-3 v1 and V2., Falken Azenis etc.. most times there is a slight improvment but basically a mild change versus the old model.

It seems to me if the tire was *completely redesigned* then a new name might be in order.. not just slapping a " 2" on it. For example.. Michelin PS2 changed to Michelin PSS. Obviously, going with a new name also has it's disadvantages and advantages (patents. trademarks, advertising.. brand recognition, buyer loyalty etc).

As far as the tire performing well on a vehicle... when it comes to OE tires.... the manufacturer normally contacts the tire company to make them a tire. From there the tire engineers work with the auto engineers to design the tire specifically for that car. (I have a friend that works for Goodyear.... and has designed tires for Nissan vehicles and Ferrarri models, so I know this first hand). While it is impressive that the tire did a 7:xx lap... there is nothing to say that a tire from BRAND Z might not run 2 seconds faster on the same car.... and perhaps the only reason that Tire A was designed for the vehicle and not the Brand Z tire was due to business politics or prior contracts.

With that in mind.. I'm skeptical that the Sport Cup 2 is a tire that will jump to the the top of the heap of the current crop of R tires, and I'll wait for your review.
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      07-18-2014, 06:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
I am not yet aware of a " compound change/redesisgn" of a tire with the same name where there was a marked improvement over the original...
I wouldn't read much into a name... The PZero was released back in the 80s and the name hasn't changed at all. Yet it still wins tests, because it's totally different in every way except the name...
Link
Link

Point being that engineers make tires, marketing guys name them, and one often has very little to do with the other. And tires have come a long, long way since ~2004 when the original Pilot Sport Cup was released.

As a measure of exactly how far, Walter Rohrl was recently asked why the Porsche 918 was over 30 seconds faster than the Carrera GT of a decade ago (7:28 vs 6:57). He didn't say 4wd, electronics or power. He answered with a single word: tires.

Michelin shares a lot of technology between the Cup and street tires. The original Cup came out with the first PS2 back in the early 2000s. Now we have the PSS, and the the Cup 2 to go with it. I expect a similar advance.

Certainly tires are tuned for specific vehicles, the PS2s on our 1M being an example- tuned for the M3, it uses a sticker compound that the PS2s on the M5, for example. Tests so far, however, on cars like the 997 the tire wasn't designed for, indicate this is not that type of targeted tuning, but rather a pretty big step forward across the board. But we'll see.
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      07-18-2014, 07:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
Both compound and design, yes. It's a completely new tire. It has a high 180 treadwear rating, supposed to be ~1.5% faster around an average course, and add significantly greater stability. I do expect they will still need a little heat to work. Same tires the 918 was wearing when it went <7:00 at the ring.
180 tread wear rating, that is a street tire category. Yet, they are claiming more traction and faster lap times than the old PSC? Shave it down a bit and these can be like the old Hankook RS3's or better! At 180, I'll just use them as street tires!

Looks like 265/35/19 and 285/35/19 will be the perfect upgrade for my new F80 M3.
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      07-18-2014, 07:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
180 tread wear rating, that is a street tire category. Yet, they are claiming more traction and faster lap times than the old PSC? Shave it down a bit and these can be like the old Hankook RS3's or better! At 180, I'll just use them as street tires!
I'm planning to try that, though if they are anything like the PSS the second half of the treadwear will be relatively useless- they'll have tread, but grip will be long gone...
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      07-18-2014, 09:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
I'm planning to try that, though if they are anything like the PSS the second half of the treadwear will be relatively useless- they'll have tread, but grip will be long gone...
We had the same issue with the original PSC's, they will usually heat cycled out before the tread is all gone. That pretty much cover just about any other street and some R-comp tires. We will usually take the street tires down to 4 or 5/32 tread before a track day.
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      07-20-2014, 07:06 AM   #9
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Got them since May, tracked twice, Spa & Nürburgring.
Very great grip when hot, progressive and gave lots of confidence.
Improved my best laptimes btw.


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      07-20-2014, 08:49 AM   #10
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Looking fwd to getting more feedback on the Cup 2s as I am very interested in these tires.

I have tried the PSSs and prefer the PS2s.
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      07-21-2014, 07:00 AM   #11
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Let us know how you go with the Michelin PSC2 .

Found a review between PSC2 and Trofeo R on a Scud:
http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/mo...lin-pilot.html

Probably not quite fair in comparison as one is a track tyre that streets and the other is a street tyre that tracks.
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      07-31-2014, 12:55 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Let us know how you go with the Michelin PSC2 .

Found a review between PSC2 and Trofeo R on a Scud:
http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/mo...lin-pilot.html

Probably not quite fair in comparison as one is a track tyre that streets and the other is a street tyre that tracks.
Good find!

Some review is better than no review at all.
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      07-31-2014, 01:03 PM   #13
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I got my set mounted yesterday. I'll post a review after I've had some time to form real impressions.
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      08-01-2014, 08:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB
I got my set mounted yesterday. I'll post a review after I've had some time to form real impressions.
Great.

I'm also interested in these as dual purpose DD and track sprint tyre.

Keen to hear your impressions.
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      08-02-2014, 08:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
(I have a friend that works for Goodyear.... and has designed tires for Nissan vehicles and Ferrarri models, so I know this first hand).
Actually, that makes it second hand Interesting info,nonetheless!

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      08-03-2014, 04:34 PM   #16
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Just back from a couple drives. I haven't had time to compete on them yet, so I'll post a follow up next weekend after I do. So far though... wow.

If you'd asked me blind I'd have guessed the car was fitted with different dampers. Around town the ride doesn't seem much different, but at speed it clearly is- the car simply seems much less upset by bumps, and both grip and confidence are way up as a result.

Turn-in isn't terribly impressive, slightly sharper than a PSS but not a good as the stock PS2s. Noise is up slightly from a PSS. Much less tread-block squirm, which makes sense as the blocks are ether huge and shallow or non-existent.

Grip is impressive, and it seems to let go quite progressively. It needs a little more heat than a PSS to get to the same grip level starting cool, but less heat than an RS-3 or Dunlop SMR. Once it does warm even a little... I was able to stick 1st gear in a straight line at 55F outside temp. With a light mist of water on the road, just enough to hit the windshield washers. Impressed.

A slight lack of feedback is my biggest issue so far- they stick so well that I can't yet judge how far from the line I am. We'll see if that's simply a lack of seat-time, however. Otherwise they seem very good so far, certainly the best street tires I've tried in terms of capability, if perhaps not enjoyment.
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      08-03-2014, 08:18 PM   #17
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Actually, that makes it second hand Interesting info,nonetheless!

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      08-03-2014, 09:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
Just back from a couple drives. I haven't had time to compete on them yet, so I'll post a follow up next weekend after I do. So far though... wow.

If you'd asked me blind I'd have guessed the car was fitted with different dampers. Around town the ride doesn't seem much different, but at speed it clearly is- the car simply seems much less upset by bumps, and both grip and confidence are way up as a result.

Turn-in isn't terribly impressive, slightly sharper than a PSS but not a good as the stock PS2s. Noise is up slightly from a PSS. Much less tread-block squirm, which makes sense as the blocks are ether huge and shallow or non-existent.

Grip is impressive, and it seems to let go quite progressively. It needs a little more heat than a PSS to get to the same grip level starting cool, but less heat than an RS-3 or Dunlop SMR. Once it does warm even a little... I was able to stick 1st gear in a straight line at 55F outside temp. With a light mist of water on the road, just enough to hit the windshield washers. Impressed.

A slight lack of feedback is my biggest issue so far- they stick so well that I can't yet judge how far from the line I am. We'll see if that's simply a lack of seat-time, however. Otherwise they seem very good so far, certainly the best street tires I've tried in terms of capability, if perhaps not enjoyment.
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      08-03-2014, 10:01 PM   #19
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Thanks for the feedback.

I've just ordered these and will be changing to them from PS2s.

Apparently they're on special here in Australia as they've just landed, so those Aussies who are thinking about them better get a move on.

I'll be at the track in two weeks so the change in lap times and character will be interesting.
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      08-04-2014, 06:01 AM   #20
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Thanks for the feedback Pete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro1M View Post
Thanks for the feedback.

I've just ordered these and will be changing to them from PS2s.

Apparently they're on special here in Australia as they've just landed, so those Aussies who are thinking about them better get a move on.

I'll be at the track in two weeks so the change in lap times and character will be interesting.
It would be good to know what's the pressure/temp they like to run on. Hopefully it is going to be an improvement over the old MPSC and Pirelli Corsas.

I think we should have a sticky re tyres for track comparisons for easy reference.
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      08-04-2014, 11:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
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It would be good to know what's the pressure/temp they like to run on.
Michelin recommends between 33 and 36 psi target hot pressures, and to never let them get below 29 psi.
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      08-04-2014, 04:27 PM   #22
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I'm considering these as well. Is everyone running stock sizes? I noticed they also make them in 255/35 and 275/35

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