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      07-24-2012, 09:59 AM   #199
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Here's a link to a StopTech kit for about $3200 for our 128s:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-11...-e82-128i.aspx

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      07-24-2012, 10:25 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyVT View Post
BBK for daily driving

There is nothing wrong with the stock brake hardware for anything except racing, assuming you aren't two-footing it in an automatic and riding the brakes in traffic just get some decent pads and fluid. If I (and many others) don't get fade on the track with stock brakes with upgraded pads/fluid you shouldn't be getting it on your daily commute.
Yup, which is why I was suggesting a more aggressive pad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimD View Post
Here's a link to a StopTech kit for about $3200 for our 128s:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-11...-e82-128i.aspx

Jim
Ah thanks, I forgot to link it earlier.
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      07-24-2012, 10:33 AM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyVT
BBK for daily driving

There is nothing wrong with the stock brake hardware for anything except racing, assuming you aren't two-footing it in an automatic and riding the brakes in traffic just get some decent pads and fluid. If I (and many others) don't get fade on the track with stock brakes with upgraded pads/fluid you shouldn't be getting it on your daily commute.
+1. If you're experiencing brake fade on public roads, even with the stock brake system, you're doing something wrong.

As fas as the BMWP BBK - it certainly must be an improvement over stock. And the cracked pistons are only an issue with folks running certain pads, IIRC. Not only that, but you can easily upgrade the ceramic pistons to steel if desired ( Turner sells a kit). Not nearly as good as a real BBK, but last time I checked, they were half the price ($1500 vs. $3000). About a year ago, they were selling for $1000 - wish I had jumped on them then.
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      07-24-2012, 11:16 AM   #202
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I'd say you also have a problem if you're NOT getting fade with street pads on the track!
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      07-24-2012, 11:29 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerEnthusiast99 View Post
Hey all! Good thread. Love my wife's 128, my favorite of the three bimmers we own currently.

I do however find the stock brake setup, a tad on the weak side. Was thinking about going with the BMW Perf Brake kit, but wanted to hear some opinions.

Are these progessive enough to be feasible for normal daily driving or are they mainly for tracking your car? i.e., would they simply put you through the windshield every time you tap the brake in normal street driving scenarios? Any maintenance problems associated from using them?

My problem with the stock setup is that they start to fade a bit when driving pretty hard in fast moving, fast stopping traffic, and would like a setup that will save my bacon when the jackass in front of me slams on his breaks because he didn't see the guy in front of him at a dead stop. Have had a few too many close calls in similar situations---and barely got the 1er stopped in time.

Any pros/cons would help.

Let me know your thoughts---much appreciated!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Long story short, they would be a waste of money.

BMW performance brake kit is not a BBK in any sense of the word. They are merely a gold window dressing. If you are having fade, I would upgrade to a more aggressive pad than the car has and take it from there. If you continue to experience fade on the street, spend the money you have saved not wasting it on the BMW PBK and get a proper Brembo or StopTech kit.

As a side note, what tires are you running?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
I'd rather have the stock 128 brakes than the stock 135 brakes-- no need to feel cracking pistons or melting dust boots.

The purpose of more pistons is to have a larger pad, which gives you longer pad life-- NOT to apply more force. The stock 128i brakes can lock the wheels (every time you engage ABS that's what's happened), so there is zero benefit to applying more force. The benefits of BBKs are:
More heat capacity
better pedal modulation
longer pad/rotor life (largely due to the increased heat capacity)
reduced unsprung/rotating mass
pad swaps without removing the caliper from the car (useful if tracking and changing multiple times per weekend).

The 135/performance kit may have increased heat capacity, but it's useless because heat cracks the pistons... so if you use it for anything serious, where you'd need the capacity, it's a terrible choice. It doesn't come with stainless lines, so you still don't have good feel/modulation. It doesn't have lighter rotors, so you're not decreasing rotating mass. And, I'm not positive, but I'm fairly certain you still have to remove the caliper to change pads, so you don't gain that.

I completely agree with Stig-- I'd stick with stock or go to a real BBK. The BMW performance kit/135 setup is worse than the stock 128 setup, imo.
I have to disagree with the negative review on the BMW BBK installed on a 128.. for added braking performance in street use and in weekend track use ( Time Trilas HPDE's )

first:
I have been running them for almost 2 seasons of track events (summit point, Lime Rock, NJMP, Watkins Glen, Pocono north, ) ( 12 or 13 full track days at approx 4 or 5 sessions per day at approx 50 laps per event ) ( countless auto-x's also)

Lime rock 1:06.7
The Glen 2:27.7 >> there was a full track R-comp/ rollcaged / lightned track ready 135 there also best time 2:13.2 for comparassion
summit point 1:32.0
NJMP 1:22.5
Pocono North 1:07.0

times not posted to pontificate, there for comparassion and to show that i do push the car hard.

I have visually inspected my pads and rotors after every event.
Rotors not cracked,and they are the slotted / cross drilled (actually they are worn .5mm from there minimum thickness with theses pads on them now)
Pistons and seals in PERFECT condition and original
Calipers not discolored / and i suffer no uneven pad wear
The car is my Daily driver.. I dont swa pads out

i started on Stock ( 135 ) BMW pads that came with the kit, They got me thru Lime rock and NJMP and pocono no issues at all.

I love the initial bite of the stock BMW pads for daily driving, absolutly great on the street.

I then swapped to cool carbons.. I did not like theses pads.. they dusted less but pulsated at high heat / threashold points. ( i did bed them in correctly and rebedded before each event )

Now I have Ferodo 2500's WONDERFUL track pad.. can be used on the street with no issues at all ( performance wise ) , a little noisy at times, and the red dust that comes off is more annoying then the black BMW dust )

With the combo of all the upgrades in my Signature, for a 128 on the cheap you cant get any better bang for the buck.

( if you intend to go FULL RACE .. No OEM supplied stuff will work correctly as they compromise to much, but if you are in it just for the weekend warrior Time trial or HPDE...then like i said.. it cant be beat )

Also remember the 135 is almost 300+ lbs heavier then a 128 ( optioned like mine, no sunroof no nav no power seats etc ) having 135 brakes on a 128 weighing 300lbs less is a win win win win, and that is why i say they work. In addition a 135 carries about 20+ MPH down the straight into any tracks turn 1 which is usually a heavy braking zone, here also the 128 gains by actually being a bit slower, and not having to rely on the brakes alone to slow for the turn and carry speed thru the corner.

also to note The BMW BBK is made by Brembo and the Calipers are Stamped Brembo, and the have a Brembo Part number.

I do agree that you must take care of your equiptment.. My f30 backing plate Mod ( many threads about it ) has worked.. but for a 135 not so much.

There is alot about driving style that leads to taking care of ones equiptment..

so in conclusion: I highly Recommend the BMW BBK on a 128 for spiited Canyon running / driving.. I also Recommend it for moderate to heavy weeked Time Trial / HPDE's IF you take percautions like i did.

If there are any questions , feel free to ask ..
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      07-24-2012, 12:05 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob View Post
+1. If you're experiencing brake fade on public roads, even with the stock brake system, you're doing something wrong.

As fas as the BMWP BBK - it certainly must be an improvement over stock. And the cracked pistons are only an issue with folks running certain pads, IIRC. Not only that, but you can easily upgrade the ceramic pistons to steel if desired ( Turner sells a kit). Not nearly as good as a real BBK, but last time I checked, they were half the price ($1500 vs. $3000). About a year ago, they were selling for $1000 - wish I had jumped on them then.
Still $1900 for the BMW PBK.

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462

And once again, I'm not saying that it isn't better, merely that the dollar to improvement ratio isn't nearly as good as the other two options. Go to two less track events and you just made up the difference.

Man we are getting side tracked, I like this thread.
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      07-24-2012, 12:07 PM   #205
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For street I would just upgrade rotors and pads. Stop-tech makes 128i stock sized slotted rotors. Pads are from other sources, like cool carbon
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      07-24-2012, 12:20 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveHard View Post
I have to disagree with the negative review on the BMW BBK installed on a 128.. for added braking performance in street use and in weekend track use ( Time Trilas HPDE's )

first:
I have been running them for almost 2 seasons of track events (summit point, Lime Rock, NJMP, Watkins Glen, Pocono north, ) ( 12 or 13 full track days at approx 4 or 5 sessions per day at approx 50 laps per event ) ( countless auto-x's also)

Lime rock 1:06.7
The Glen 2:27.7 >> there was a full track R-comp/ rollcaged / lightned track ready 135 there also best time 2:13.2 for comparassion
summit point 1:32.0
NJMP 1:22.5
Pocono North 1:07.0

times not posted to pontificate, there for comparassion and to show that i do push the car hard.

I have visually inspected my pads and rotors after every event.
Rotors not cracked,and they are the slotted / cross drilled (actually they are worn .5mm from there minimum thickness with theses pads on them now)
Pistons and seals in PERFECT condition and original
Calipers not discolored / and i suffer no uneven pad wear
The car is my Daily driver.. I dont swa pads out

i started on Stock ( 135 ) BMW pads that came with the kit, They got me thru Lime rock and NJMP and pocono no issues at all.

I love the initial bite of the stock BMW pads for daily driving, absolutly great on the street.

I then swapped to cool carbons.. I did not like theses pads.. they dusted less but pulsated at high heat / threashold points. ( i did bed them in correctly and rebedded before each event )

Now I have Ferodo 2500's WONDERFUL track pad.. can be used on the street with no issues at all ( performance wise ) , a little noisy at times, and the red dust that comes off is more annoying then the black BMW dust )

With the combo of all the upgrades in my Signature, for a 128 on the cheap you cant get any better bang for the buck.

( if you intend to go FULL RACE .. No OEM supplied stuff will work correctly as they compromise to much, but if you are in it just for the weekend warrior Time trial or HPDE...then like i said.. it cant be beat )

Also remember the 135 is almost 300+ lbs heavier then a 128 ( optioned like mine, no sunroof no nav no power seats etc ) having 135 brakes on a 128 weighing 300lbs less is a win win win win, and that is why i say they work. In addition a 135 carries about 20+ MPH down the straight into any tracks turn 1 which is usually a heavy braking zone, here also the 128 gains by actually being a bit slower, and not having to rely on the brakes alone to slow for the turn and carry speed thru the corner.

also to note The BMW BBK is made by Brembo and the Calipers are Stamped Brembo, and the have a Brembo Part number.

I do agree that you must take care of your equiptment.. My f30 backing plate Mod ( many threads about it ) has worked.. but for a 135 not so much.

There is alot about driving style that leads to taking care of ones equiptment..

so in conclusion: I highly Recommend the BMW BBK on a 128 for spiited Canyon running / driving.. I also Recommend it for moderate to heavy weeked Time Trial / HPDE's IF you take percautions like i did.

If there are any questions , feel free to ask ..
Real world, track experienced driver here calling it like it is.
As good as the 128 is one of the places it can benefit is in the braking dept(if the car is to be tracked). The 135 Brembos are a couple steps up from the stock 128 binders.
Anyone who says the 128's are better than the 135's are seriously delusional.
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      07-24-2012, 12:31 PM   #207
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I forgot to add to my other post above..

If you go BMW BBK upgrade.. you also maintain

FULL warranty and

Maint coverage*** (if you stick with BMW pads)
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      07-24-2012, 01:42 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC6
Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveHard View Post
I have to disagree with the negative review on the BMW BBK installed on a 128.. for added braking performance in street use and in weekend track use ( Time Trilas HPDE's )

first:
I have been running them for almost 2 seasons of track events (summit point, Lime Rock, NJMP, Watkins Glen, Pocono north, ) ( 12 or 13 full track days at approx 4 or 5 sessions per day at approx 50 laps per event ) ( countless auto-x's also)

Lime rock 1:06.7
The Glen 2:27.7 >> there was a full track R-comp/ rollcaged / lightned track ready 135 there also best time 2:13.2 for comparassion
summit point 1:32.0
NJMP 1:22.5
Pocono North 1:07.0

times not posted to pontificate, there for comparassion and to show that i do push the car hard.

I have visually inspected my pads and rotors after every event.
Rotors not cracked,and they are the slotted / cross drilled (actually they are worn .5mm from there minimum thickness with theses pads on them now)
Pistons and seals in PERFECT condition and original
Calipers not discolored / and i suffer no uneven pad wear
The car is my Daily driver.. I dont swa pads out

i started on Stock ( 135 ) BMW pads that came with the kit, They got me thru Lime rock and NJMP and pocono no issues at all.

I love the initial bite of the stock BMW pads for daily driving, absolutly great on the street.

I then swapped to cool carbons.. I did not like theses pads.. they dusted less but pulsated at high heat / threashold points. ( i did bed them in correctly and rebedded before each event )

Now I have Ferodo 2500's WONDERFUL track pad.. can be used on the street with no issues at all ( performance wise ) , a little noisy at times, and the red dust that comes off is more annoying then the black BMW dust )

With the combo of all the upgrades in my Signature, for a 128 on the cheap you cant get any better bang for the buck.

( if you intend to go FULL RACE .. No OEM supplied stuff will work correctly as they compromise to much, but if you are in it just for the weekend warrior Time trial or HPDE...then like i said.. it cant be beat )

Also remember the 135 is almost 300+ lbs heavier then a 128 ( optioned like mine, no sunroof no nav no power seats etc ) having 135 brakes on a 128 weighing 300lbs less is a win win win win, and that is why i say they work. In addition a 135 carries about 20+ MPH down the straight into any tracks turn 1 which is usually a heavy braking zone, here also the 128 gains by actually being a bit slower, and not having to rely on the brakes alone to slow for the turn and carry speed thru the corner.

also to note The BMW BBK is made by Brembo and the Calipers are Stamped Brembo, and the have a Brembo Part number.

I do agree that you must take care of your equiptment.. My f30 backing plate Mod ( many threads about it ) has worked.. but for a 135 not so much.

There is alot about driving style that leads to taking care of ones equiptment..

so in conclusion: I highly Recommend the BMW BBK on a 128 for spiited Canyon running / driving.. I also Recommend it for moderate to heavy weeked Time Trial / HPDE's IF you take percautions like i did.

If there are any questions , feel free to ask ..
Real world, track experienced driver here calling it like it is.
As good as the 128 is one of the places it can benefit is in the braking dept(if the car is to be tracked). The 135 Brembos are a couple steps up from the stock 128 binders.
Anyone who says the 128's are better than the 135's are seriously delusional.
First off excuse me if I'm reiterating any previously stated facts, I read up to page three and saw some flaws in the arguments and simply skipped to the end to comment. That being said, you claim that you don't want to believe anything because no numbers exist to back up the theories. That is a valid argument but experiences are there and the two that stand out in my mind are that the 1M is faster around a track than an E9X M3 and that the Z06 is in fact faster than a ZR1 around a track. I have to find the link for the 1M vs M3 and the later I have the magazine article at my house.

Just because the numbers don't exist does not mean that it isn't the case. If we only believed what was written in stone than we would still think that the earth is flat. I do believe that if we were to compare apples to apples (ie a bone stock 135 vs bone stock 128 with the same driver/conditions) the 128 would in fact be the quicker car around the track. I'm not saying it would be leaps and bounds quicker but it would edge it out.
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      07-24-2012, 01:47 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DriveHard View Post
a 128 weighing 300lbs less is a win win win win
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC6 View Post
Real world, track experienced driver here calling it like it is.
Agreed!
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      07-24-2012, 02:15 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apiasto View Post
First off excuse me if I'm reiterating any previously stated facts, I read up to page three and saw some flaws in the arguments and simply skipped to the end to comment. That being said, you claim that you don't want to believe anything because no numbers exist to back up the theories. That is a valid argument but experiences are there and the two that stand out in my mind are that the 1M is faster around a track than an E9X M3 and that the Z06 is in fact faster than a ZR1 around a track. I have to find the link for the 1M vs M3 and the later I have the magazine article at my house.

Just because the numbers don't exist does not mean that it isn't the case. If we only believed what was written in stone than we would still think that the earth is flat. I do believe that if we were to compare apples to apples (ie a bone stock 135 vs bone stock 128 with the same driver/conditions) the 128 would in fact be the quicker car around the track. I'm not saying it would be leaps and bounds quicker but it would edge it out.
You speak in general terms here. Bacause a particular car might edge out another at one track doesnt mean that its a faster car in all repects of racing. Most use times from various sanctioned tracks to get a track record of a cars performance. Not one run done in a parking lot with cones set up for example. What tracks are you referring to?
Most track times for the ZR1/Z06 battles have the ZR1 coming out ahead of the Z06. Nurburgring(Holy Grail track for many) for one example of many.

The E92 M3 is also faster than the 1M at the Ring as it is at more tracks than not.
I think its safe to assume that the 135 is faster than the 128 around most tracks as well but because the 128 has so little official track times posted anywhere(leave it to you to figure out why) its all speculation, I guess.

Last edited by NYC6; 07-24-2012 at 02:26 PM.
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      07-24-2012, 02:16 PM   #211
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Agreed!
Keep hanging your hat on that, its all ya got.
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      07-24-2012, 02:30 PM   #212
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Quote:
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Keep hanging your hat on that, its all ya got.
You really have no idea what the backgrounds of some of the people in this thread are do you?
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      07-24-2012, 02:47 PM   #213
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I have to agree that comparing a bone stock 128 to a bone stock 135, the 135 is quicker overall.

why.. because ive been beat by them, and drivers with similar weekend warrior experience.


although i can see with the right driver (and not worring about driving the car home because its his daily driver ) i see a 128 putting up quiet a battle. I think that it can slow quicker and carry more into the corner while not sacraficing corner exit.. BUT 135 corner exit is STUPID quick as its in the correct RPM range for power. front straight speed is always 20+ mph faster ..

Like i always said.. one is a better drive if one can drive a slow car fast as opposed to a fast car fast..

p.s. i usually race with my buddy in his Miata.. I enjoy following him because he NEVER brakes ( well you know what i mean ) its such a momentum car that lifting is enough.. very cool to watch .. he also beats my time every event in his S2000.... another blast to watch..
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      07-24-2012, 02:48 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apiasto View Post
First off excuse me if I'm reiterating any previously stated facts, I read up to page three and saw some flaws in the arguments and simply skipped to the end to comment. That being said, you claim that you don't want to believe anything because no numbers exist to back up the theories. That is a valid argument but experiences are there and the two that stand out in my mind are that the 1M is faster around a track than an E9X M3 and that the Z06 is in fact faster than a ZR1 around a track. I have to find the link for the 1M vs M3 and the later I have the magazine article at my house.

Just because the numbers don't exist does not mean that it isn't the case. If we only believed what was written in stone than we would still think that the earth is flat. I do believe that if we were to compare apples to apples (ie a bone stock 135 vs bone stock 128 with the same driver/conditions) the 128 would in fact be the quicker car around the track. I'm not saying it would be leaps and bounds quicker but it would edge it out.
You speak in general terms here. Bacause a particular car might edge out another at one track doesnt mean that its a faster car in all repects of racing. Most use times from various sanctioned tracks to get a track record of a cars performance. Not one run done in a parking lot with cones set up for example. What tracks are you referring to?
Most track times for the ZR1/Z06 battles have the ZR1 coming out ahead of the Z06. Nurburgring(Holy Grail track for many) for one example of many.

The E92 M3 is also faster than the 1M at the Ring as it is at more tracks than not.
I think its safe to assume that the 135 is faster than the 128 around most tracks as well but because the 128 has so little official track times posted anywhere(leave it to you to figure out why) its all speculation, I guess.
It was Road & Tracks April 2012 issue, Tommy Milner took all of the Corvette variants around the Spring Mountain track and the Z06 edged out the ZR1. Here is one of the articles I saw about the 1M:

http://www.autospies.com/news/The-Ultimate-BMW-M-Track-Day-1M-vs-M3-vs-E60-M5-vs-F10-M5-vs-X5M-vs-X6M-There-s-Even-A-SURPRISE-68390/

Aside from the lightened M3 CRT it edges out the M3s. But let's agree to disagree because until more data is formed than all it is speculation. I just wanted to put 2 cents in. I actually like the 135 I just stuck with N/A because I like the smooth feeling rather than boost.

Now getting back on topic, are there any good sites for parts in general for suspension. Sorry I'm a noob to the BMW world. I just bought my 1er I'm February. Y previous car was a RSX Type-S so I don't even know where to begin. My original plans were to do an all motor build but after seeing that there aren't too many parts around I got discouraged. Idk if Cams were discussed earlier but are there any available?
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      07-24-2012, 02:53 PM   #215
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Thanks for the input on brakes guys, I'll check out all of the options.
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      07-24-2012, 02:55 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
You really have no idea what the backgrounds of some of the people in this thread are do you?
from some of the statements made so far I would say the majority have minimal knowledge of brake systems and minimal experience on a track
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      07-24-2012, 03:41 PM   #217
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I think it would take a very tight track with short straights for the 128i to stay close to the 135i. Or a large discrepancy in driver skill. The chassis are exactly the same, so it's not like comparing a faster car to a Miata, for example (as an aside, I did a few laps in the right seat of an instructor's Spec Miata this past spring, and it was pretty epic).

In any case, the 128i is still plenty of fun on the track. For me, that's enough. I don't have anything to try and prove versus cars that are obviously faster, except to say that you don't need to have the fastest car at an event in order to enjoy yourself. At the track days I've attended, my 128i is usually in the middle of the pack in terms of power. Until I can drive it at 10/10ths, I don't feel like I "need" a faster car - in other words, the biggest thing slowing me down at this point is me.
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      07-24-2012, 03:46 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSt|G View Post
Still $1900 for the BMW PBK.

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462

And once again, I'm not saying that it isn't better, merely that the dollar to improvement ratio isn't nearly as good as the other two options. Go to two less track events and you just made up the difference.

Man we are getting side tracked, I like this thread.
Man, the price keeps creeping up on that kit. I don't get why it doesn't stabilize. It really should me more like $1200-$1400 max IMO. Like I said, around this time last year I saw the kit for sale for $995 at Turner. What I really don't get is that it is very close in price to the 135i kit, which includes upgraded rears as well.

In any case, I still think it is a pretty good option if you can get it for the right price. It's not meant to be a dedicated track setup. Unfortunately, the current prices really are getting to be unreasonable.
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      07-24-2012, 03:56 PM   #219
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^ mod the driver, it's cheaper and WAY more fun.
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      07-24-2012, 03:56 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban
I'd rather have the stock 128 brakes than the stock 135 brakes-- no need to feel cracking pistons or melting dust boots.

The purpose of more pistons is to have a larger pad, which gives you longer pad life-- NOT to apply more force. The stock 128i brakes can lock the wheels (every time you engage ABS that's what's happened), so there is zero benefit to applying more force. The benefits of BBKs are:
More heat capacity
better pedal modulation
longer pad/rotor life (largely due to the increased heat capacity)
reduced unsprung/rotating mass
pad swaps without removing the caliper from the car (useful if tracking and changing multiple times per weekend).

The 135/performance kit may have increased heat capacity, but it's useless because heat cracks the pistons... so if you use it for anything serious, where you'd need the capacity, it's a terrible choice. It doesn't come with stainless lines, so you still don't have good feel/modulation. It doesn't have lighter rotors, so you're not decreasing rotating mass. And, I'm not positive, but I'm fairly certain you still have to remove the caliper to change pads, so you don't gain that.

I completely agree with Stig-- I'd stick with stock or go to a real BBK. The BMW performance kit/135 setup is worse than the stock 128 setup, imo.
I'll say - with my current tires i can't lock my wheels with stock brakes on my 130i, sooo

And more pad surface area = more contact = more friction..

135i discs are definitely lighter, they have less material lol

Ed: and if we are only talking a front upgrade (rears still do a decent percent of the braking btw) then the bmw one is only like $1000-1200 new :/ (and <1000 used)
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