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      01-28-2017, 01:51 PM   #1
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New kid on the block - Michelin PSS4s

Discovered this morning that Tire Rack has the full line-up of the new Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4s in stock and ready to ship. It is also offered in some attractive sizing options.

My plan for this year was to stick with the RE71r. I am currently running 255/35 front and 275/35 rear on the stock wheels. My plan was to slightly increase stagger by going to the 285/35 in the rear.

The Michelin PS4s is available in the stock sizes, my current sizes, and would also allow the 255/285 setup above. It would also have the option of going toa 265/30 up front and 295/30 in the rear. Hmmm. Decisions Decisions.

What is the word on the street regarding these tires?
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Last edited by CarJunkie; 01-28-2017 at 02:02 PM.
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      01-28-2017, 03:53 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
Discovered this morning that Tire Rack has the full line-up of the new Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4s in stock and ready to ship. It is also offered in some attractive sizing options.

My plan for this year was to stick with the RE71r. I am currently running 255/35 front and 275/35 rear on the stock wheels. My plan was to slightly increase stagger by going to the 285/35 in the rear.

The Michelin PS4s is available in the stock sizes, my current sizes, and would also allow the 255/285 setup above. It would also have the option of going toa 265/30 up front and 295/30 in the rear. Hmmm. Decisions Decisions.

What is the word on the street regarding these tires?
I get the impression from blogs and whatnot that the PS4S is supposed to be the next step in evolution for the PSS with improved levels of wet and dry grip, which sounds like the ultimate street and perhaps wet track tire. Are you running RE71 on the street? People have made those tires sound like a streetable track tire with levels of grip approaching NT01s with limited tread life to match. All this armchair speculation aside, I haven't heard any direct feedback from anyone actually running these tires (yet). Hopefully this means that the PSS will hit firesale prices ...
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      01-28-2017, 03:57 PM   #3
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I used RE71r for the first time last year. About 8k miles, 2 HPDE's, and 5 autocross days finished them off. Grip is amazing. I will probably stay with them, but looking around before buying.
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      01-28-2017, 05:19 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
I used RE71r for the first time last year. About 8k miles, 2 HPDE's, and 5 autocross days finished them off. Grip is amazing. I will probably stay with them, but looking around before buying.
How are the RE71s in the wet?
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      01-28-2017, 05:57 PM   #5
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My first track day was wet in the morning and they did well. Much better than dedicated track tires, as some people tried running those with poor results that day. The RE71's were nearly new and were predictable. It was still a car control exercise, but didn't seem dangerous.
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      01-29-2017, 02:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
Discovered this morning that Tire Rack has the full line-up of the new Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4s in stock and ready to ship. It is also offered in some attractive sizing options.

My plan for this year was to stick with the RE71r. I am currently running 255/35 front and 275/35 rear on the stock wheels. My plan was to slightly increase stagger by going to the 285/35 in the rear.

The Michelin PS4s is available in the stock sizes, my current sizes, and would also allow the 255/285 setup above. It would also have the option of going toa 265/30 up front and 295/30 in the rear. Hmmm. Decisions Decisions.

What is the word on the street regarding these tires?
Yes! I have been waiting to see what others are going to do for sizing on the PS4S as I will be replacing my OE tires this spring and am definitely going to get these.

I am running H&R springs and 10mm spacers, all other suspension is original. I have no performance modifications other than a MadDad mid-pipe however was considering getting a Cobb to just ran a basic stage 1 flash.

I enjoy the current stagger and grip levels as far as it is considered 'twitchy' or 'nervous'. My goals will be to keep the bias of grip levels, but just more of it with maybe adding a hint of understeer as I may tune to stage 1.

I am having a hard time deciding between:
1. 255/275
2. 255/285
3. 265/285
4. 265/295

I've also experienced tramlining in my E46 M3 from going to wider tires and really want to avoid this in the 1M (not sure if that is possible?).
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      01-29-2017, 11:41 AM   #7
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I have had good luck with 255/275 RE71r's, no tramlining issues and perfect fit with updated fender liners. I have added power, which is the reason for wanting a wider rear. Balance should remain about the same and I will use the alignment to fine tune.

I think I am going to stick with the RE71r for another year, which is probably still the king for autocross street tire class. They don't last very long, but are otherwise phenomenal.
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      01-30-2017, 06:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
I have had good luck with 255/275 RE71r's, no tramlining issues and perfect fit with updated fender liners. I have added power, which is the reason for wanting a wider rear. Balance should remain about the same and I will use the alignment to fine tune.
Thanks!

What do you have for a tune? How much power are you putting down? In my opinion even at stock levels I think the car could use some wider rear rubber.

Does anyone know what causes tramlining? Is it cause by changing the stagger or just by wider tires in general?
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      01-30-2017, 08:52 PM   #9
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Some tires are more prone to it than others. Alignment effects it, especially toe out or not enough caster.
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      01-30-2017, 08:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
Thanks!

What do you have for a tune? How much power are you putting down? In my opinion even at stock levels I think the car could use some wider rear rubber.

Does anyone know what causes tramlining? Is it cause by changing the stagger or just by wider tires in general?
All you ever wanted to know on the topic:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=47
I'd say don't underestimate the effect toe on dartiness and tramlining.
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      02-08-2017, 10:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
Yes! I have been waiting to see what others are going to do for sizing on the PS4S as I will be replacing my OE tires this spring and am definitely going to get these.

I am running H&R springs and 10mm spacers, all other suspension is original. I have no performance modifications other than a MadDad mid-pipe however was considering getting a Cobb to just ran a basic stage 1 flash.

I enjoy the current stagger and grip levels as far as it is considered 'twitchy' or 'nervous'. My goals will be to keep the bias of grip levels, but just more of it with maybe adding a hint of understeer as I may tune to stage 1.

I am having a hard time deciding between:
1. 255/275
2. 255/285
3. 265/285
4. 265/295

I've also experienced tramlining in my E46 M3 from going to wider tires and really want to avoid this in the 1M (not sure if that is possible?).
I'm of the, "keep the tread width delta (f/r) as minimal as possible) for a FR vehicle and provided it were my vehicle I'd be more inclined for the 265/285, if not 265/275 options.

Once I get a bit more energy I'll be test fitting one of the 19x10 359M wheels on the front of my E82 to check fit, which might enable an awesome 275/30 on all four corners
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      02-09-2017, 04:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterile stork View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
Yes! I have been waiting to see what others are going to do for sizing on the PS4S as I will be replacing my OE tires this spring and am definitely going to get these.

I am running H&R springs and 10mm spacers, all other suspension is original. I have no performance modifications other than a MadDad mid-pipe however was considering getting a Cobb to just ran a basic stage 1 flash.

I enjoy the current stagger and grip levels as far as it is considered 'twitchy' or 'nervous'. My goals will be to keep the bias of grip levels, but just more of it with maybe adding a hint of understeer as I may tune to stage 1.

I am having a hard time deciding between:
1. 255/275
2. 255/285
3. 265/285
4. 265/295

I've also experienced tramlining in my E46 M3 from going to wider tires and really want to avoid this in the 1M (not sure if that is possible?).
I'm of the, "keep the tread width delta (f/r) as minimal as possible) for a FR vehicle and provided it were my vehicle I'd be more inclined for the 265/285, if not 265/275 options.

Once I get a bit more energy I'll be test fitting one of the 19x10 359M wheels on the front of my E82 to check fit, which might enable an awesome 275/30 on all four corners
Hmmm...not sure on the 265/275 matchup. I fear this would have too much oversteer for the short wheelbase of the 1M. It seems to already have enough snap oversteer in my opinion with 245/265.

I think I've read of people going with 255 or 265 up front matched with really wide rears. 305 or 315 even? mattm ?


Maybe leaning towards 255/285 at the moment (this was also the choice for the 1M Safety Car setup).
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      02-09-2017, 04:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
Hmmm...not sure on the 265/275 matchup. I fear this would have too much oversteer for the short wheelbase of the 1M. It seems to already have enough snap oversteer in my opinion with 245/265.

I think I've read of people going with 255 or 265 up front matched with really wide rears. 305 or 315 even? mattm ?


Maybe leaning towards 255/285 at the moment (this was also the choice for the 1M Safety Car setup).
Exceptionally valid counter-point; I've only driven my 1er on three occasions now, and thus a lot of my experience is coming from my experiences with the longer-wheel base E92 Ms where I purposefully sought out square sizing.

Am I incorrect in thinking that scenario a) increasing the front section width, and maintaining near-factory rear widths might yield better, more predictable break of traction at a lower threshold, vs scenario b) an increased rear-section width paired with near-factory front section width? Or is this more a balance of understeer vs rear-traction? Heck, there may be only one way to tell
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      02-10-2017, 02:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterile stork View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
Hmmm...not sure on the 265/275 matchup. I fear this would have too much oversteer for the short wheelbase of the 1M. It seems to already have enough snap oversteer in my opinion with 245/265.

I think I've read of people going with 255 or 265 up front matched with really wide rears. 305 or 315 even? mattm ?


Maybe leaning towards 255/285 at the moment (this was also the choice for the 1M Safety Car setup).
Exceptionally valid counter-point; I've only driven my 1er on three occasions now, and thus a lot of my experience is coming from my experiences with the longer-wheel base E92 Ms where I purposefully sought out square sizing.

Am I incorrect in thinking that scenario a) increasing the front section width, and maintaining near-factory rear widths might yield better, more predictable break of traction at a lower threshold, vs scenario b) an increased rear-section width paired with near-factory front section width? Or is this more a balance of understeer vs rear-traction? Heck, there may be only one way to tell
I'm no expert, but from what I understand generally speaking increasing front tire width will move the bias towards oversteer since you're giving the front more grip compared with the rear. Conversely, more rear tire width will encourage understeer since the fronts have less grip in comparison.

Not sure if that's what you are asking.

If you are new to the 1M, the original front fender liners are known to interfere with wider fronts (265's usually). It is cured for most people with the revised part from BMW which I believe is the same part # as the original. There is a thread that fully discusses the issue. I'm on mobile at the moment but searching will easily bring it up.
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      02-26-2017, 09:43 PM   #15
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I may run the new PSS4 in this year's One Lap of America -- 265/35-19 & 295/30-19. We need to run street tires for this event.

Mind you, my car is highly modified with adjustable JRZ shocks, AP brakes, Motiv single turbo (w/565+ rwhp on 93 pump), etc.

The increased stagger isn't optimal -- and I'd love to run 275s in front --but I need the increased rubber in back and I'm able to get turn-in with toe and camber.

Neil
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      02-26-2017, 10:40 PM   #16
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I am currently running RE-71-R 255/35/19 up front with 285/35/19 rears. I was running 265/35/19 up Front but it did not fit right, rubbed everywhere and had to fit the 255's. I will say the 265's felt better, less understeer. Let me say this because I hear people say that increased width up front increases oversteer. It doesn't. It does reduce understeer at the limit, but the actual grip at the rear will stay the same..... it will just be more balanced. I think for stock sized wheels, (at least guys making decent power), 265/30/19 and 285 or 295/30/19 is the ideal sizing. I wish Bridgestone offered it in the RE -71-R. I for one am staying with the Bridgestone's. Love them, see not enough reason to try the pss4's.
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      02-26-2017, 11:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDORPHN View Post
I may run the new PSS4 in this year's One Lap of America -- 265/35-19 & 295/30-19. We need to run street tires for this event.

Mind you, my car is highly modified with adjustable JRZ shocks, AP brakes, Motiv single turbo (w/565+ rwhp on 93 pump), etc.

The increased stagger isn't optimal -- and I'd love to run 275s in front --but I need the increased rubber in back and I'm able to get turn-in with toe and camber.

Neil
Great to see you back in the event--should be fun running against an M2! You can't see using R-71? I would think could last...
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      02-27-2017, 11:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDORPHN View Post
I may run the new PSS4 in this year's One Lap of America -- 265/35-19 & 295/30-19. We need to run street tires for this event.

Mind you, my car is highly modified with adjustable JRZ shocks, AP brakes, Motiv single turbo (w/565+ rwhp on 93 pump), etc.

The increased stagger isn't optimal -- and I'd love to run 275s in front --but I need the increased rubber in back and I'm able to get turn-in with toe and camber.

Neil
I would think the increased stagger would be ideal with so much added power. Last year, I could not put the power down with RE71r 275's on the rear after my tune which added about 150+ ft-lb. Second gear would even break loose in straight line acceleration. That is why I decided to experiment with wider rear rubber, and will also run about 0.2 degrees less negative camber in the rear which should help the car rotate.

I ended up going with the Bridgestone RE71r's in 255/35-19 front 285/35-19 rear. They are getting fitted today, followed by alignment. Your experience in OLOA may effect my purchasing decision next year.
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      02-28-2017, 10:34 AM   #19
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Bridgestone RE71r in 285/35-19 size will not fit on the rear of my car, lowered 5mm. I am set to -1.6 camber, but even -1.8 or more wound be unlikely to solve the rub. There is plenty of clearance at the top of the arch, but there is a bulge in the liner at the rear where the metal body panel and plastic bumper cover come together and it rubs there quite often. So far I have only contacted the liner, but there is a protruding flange of metal from the body panel that would likely make contact on a large bump under load.

Fortunately I bought the tires from the local Firestone store, and I am pretty sure they will let me exchange to the 275's.
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      02-28-2017, 11:48 AM   #20
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Bridgestone RE71r in 285/35-19 size will not fit on the rear of my car, lowered 5mm. I am set to -1.6 camber, but even -1.8 or more wound be unlikely to solve the rub. There is plenty of clearance at the top of the arch, but there is a bulge in the liner at the rear where the metal body panel and plastic bumper cover come together and it rubs there quite often. So far I have only contacted the liner, but there is a protruding flange of metal from the body panel that would likely make contact on a large bump under load.

Fortunately I bought the tires from the local Firestone store, and I am pretty sure they will let me exchange to the 275's.
I removed the plastic bump in question. No more rubbing. I am running 1.8 camber out back, heights are different because of the corner balance.
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      02-28-2017, 09:07 PM   #21
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I considered that, but I am more worried about the metal lip on the rear quarter panel. In fact, the only purpose I can think of for the bump in the liner is to give an audible warning that you are at risk for contacting the metal. It's a risk I'm not willing to take on a track car.
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      03-01-2017, 03:41 PM   #22
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285/35 rears?

While I doubt anyone will know at this point how the PS4S profile compares to the RE71r profile, does anyone know how the RE71r profile compares generally to other tires? Is it more square/taller in general? If the RE71r's in 285/35 don't fit for you CarJunkie I'm curious to know how they compare to Michelin's general shape.

Doesn't look like a 285/30 for the PS4S is going to be produced..??

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...Pilot+Sport+4S

Which makes me think that 285/35 in the PS4S for me lowered on H&R springs may not work?
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