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      04-09-2014, 01:21 PM   #1
Pete_vB
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275 / 295 Ad08r?

I'm looking at getting some quicker rubber for my stock 19" rims and swapping my 18s to street duty. Tire choice is limited in 19" sizes, so there are only a couple interesting options. I'm looking for a >140 treadwear tire that's quick against the clock at the autocross. So far my top choices are:

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 in stock 245/ 265 sizes. Expected ~May.
Yoko AD08A in stock sizes.
Yoko AD08A in 265 30 19 and 295 30 19. Front tire is .4" shorter and ~1" wider than stock at the shoulder.
Yoko AD08A in 275 30 19 and 295 30 19. Front tire is .2" shorter and ~1.5" wider than stock at the shoulder.

I'd rather go narrower up front, but I'm concerned about under steer. What do you guys who have played with wider rubber think- would you expect either of those fit without significant rubbing?

ZII, Rivals, RE-11A and RS-3 all don't look like they have suitable sizes.
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      04-09-2014, 02:11 PM   #2
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Pete, I am still running 19" on track. From a longevity perspective, my first set of front PSC+ lasted six events (might have been eight-ish if I had started with marked camber), and my rear PSC+ lasted ten events. These tyres are not used on public roads; they still require several laps to reach operating temperatures.

Have recently thought about making the transition to 18", but one of my friends uses 265/35/18 R-S3 (front) with minor rubbing

I am surprised PSC2 have a 180 treadware rating, since its competitors are still 80 If you do manage to fit wider rubber, then I would be interested (although not sure if four wheels could still be transported in the back seat.)
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      04-09-2014, 03:37 PM   #3
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I got the impression from some of the posts that larger size front tires (255, 265) did not have rubbing issues with more camber and caster cranked in using camber plates. Without the plates, anything larger than stock would have some degree of rubbing when approaching lock unless you had the newer version of fender liner installed??
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      04-09-2014, 05:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
I'm looking at getting some quicker rubber for my stock 19" rims and swapping my 18s to street duty. Tire choice is limited in 19" sizes, so there are only a couple interesting options. I'm looking for a >140 treadwear tire that's quick against the clock at the autocross. So far my top choices are:

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 in stock 245/ 265 sizes. Expected ~May.
Yoko AD08A in stock sizes.
Yoko AD08A in 265 30 19 and 295 30 19. Front tire is .4" shorter and ~1" wider than stock at the shoulder.
Yoko AD08A in 275 30 19 and 295 30 19. Front tire is .2" shorter and ~1.5" wider than stock at the shoulder.

I'd rather go narrower up front, but I'm concerned about under steer. What do you guys who have played with wider rubber think- would you expect either of those fit without significant rubbing?

ZII, Rivals, RE-11A and RS-3 all don't look like they have suitable sizes.
options for 19s are definitely slim pickings in the sport tire world.

I have Advan Neova 08s on my car. Sorry.. I don't know the exact sizes but they are a little off of stock. Perhaps 10 mm wider front and rear. I picked them up from a friend for cheap because he didnt like them on his Z4M that had 19s installed. I will check for sure. EDIT : I am running 245/35/19 Front and 275/30/19 Rear
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Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 04-14-2014 at 05:56 PM. Reason: tire sizes added
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      04-09-2014, 06:46 PM   #5
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options for 19s are definitely slim pickings in the sport tire world.

I have Advan Neova 08s on my car. Sorry.. I don't know the exact sizes but they are a little off of stock. Perhaps 10 mm wider front and rear. I picked them up from a friend for cheap because he didnt like them on his Z4M that had 19s installed. I will check for sure
What didn't he like about the AD08s, and what do you think? I understand they might have a less progressive breakaway than some of the other options, which is a pretty big downside.

It looks like Dinan ran the 275 / 295 combo on their 1m, +.5" rims, front offsets looks 4mm different. So good chance it might work, but it would probably depend on the particular tire's shoulder.

A 255 35 19 and 265 35 19 Pilot Sport Cup 2 setup might be another good option. It should fit, and it might help cure the understeer that often comes with stickier tires- better for the autocross. I'd guess they'd be quicker that 275/ 295 AD08r once they come up to temp (rarely a problem), but it's just a guess.

I do have the updated fender liners already.
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      04-10-2014, 10:42 AM   #6
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What didn't he like about the AD08s, and what do you think? I understand they might have a less progressive breakaway than some of the other options, which is a pretty big downside.

It looks like Dinan ran the 275 / 295 combo on their 1m, +.5" rims, front offsets looks 4mm different. So good chance it might work, but it would probably depend on the particular tire's shoulder.

A 255 35 19 and 265 35 19 Pilot Sport Cup 2 setup might be another good option. It should fit, and it might help cure the understeer that often comes with stickier tires- better for the autocross. I'd guess they'd be quicker that 275/ 295 AD08r once they come up to temp (rarely a problem), but it's just a guess.

I do have the updated fender liners already.
My friend did not like the tire noise and also felt that the ride was rough on 19s on his Z4 M coupe vs stock 18s.

I agree, these tires are rather noisy. They have gotten quieter over time but they do have a growl at all speeds.. especially low speeds coming to a stop at an intersection. This may be exacerbated by front camber ( i run -2.3 everywhere... so if you have camber plates and actually move them in and out this may help... ). If they are for track.. no big deal.. if they are for street tires... taking mom or wifey out... some might be frustrated with the noise. So far on track I have found them to be pretty capable. Not anyhwere near an RS-3 but they seem to like heat and can they don't squirm around or squeal excessively, nor do they chunk or show other signs of stress. I like the idea of the 275/295 combo. I would try and stay with 20 mm stagger as well. Ifeel like mine are 265/285 but I will have to look for sure.

For Autocross.. I would NOT go with the AD008. I have driven them two or three times now at evens and they just seem to lack ultimate cornering grip and they don't transition or turn in well. I will go so far as to say they pretty much suck for Autocross, on the smooth asphalt lot AND the aggregate concrete lot that I have run them on. They are actually very decent for track.. perhaps better than a pilot SS for track. I have seen some drivers chunk Michelin SSS easily and these tires wear like iron on track. After a DE day you can barely even tell they were tracked. For autocross however... I would probably go with the Michelins unless the pavement is particularly abrasive and you dont want to kill spendy michelins. The best overall option for autocross and some light to medium track work would be the RS3 for sure.
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      04-10-2014, 05:24 PM   #7
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I'm running F 265/30/19 and R 295/30/19. No rubbing whatsoever in the front. I think it is all to do with offset. I'm running a not so aggressive offset so the wheel is a bit more sunken into the wheel arch but when I turn full lock and the wheel pivots it misses that point where it seems most guys touch. PM me if you want some more details/photos

Julian.
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      04-10-2014, 05:38 PM   #8
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p.s I'm running PSS and Eibach springs.
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      04-10-2014, 06:05 PM   #9
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AD08's are noisy after break-in from what others have said at events.

I just switched back from RS-3 to PSS. I ran RS-3's in 245-35-19 (no longer available) and 275-35-19 on street and track. Great tyres with great turn-in and eliminate understeer, but became too hard to live with as a DD as they have a really harsh ride and tramline.
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      04-10-2014, 07:46 PM   #10
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I mounted 275/19/30's on the front stock wheels re11's. No issues. I planned to install a 305 on the rears but had issues sourcing them.

I then moved the 275's to the rear and bought 255's for the front.

Andy Hollis (hollis racing) will tell you that you don't want to go much over 10mm up on stock sizes.

It is just for street / looks, you can get 275/30's on the front and 315's in the rear.
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      04-10-2014, 09:44 PM   #11
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I then moved the 275's to the rear and bought 255's for the front.

Andy Hollis (hollis racing) will tell you that you don't want to go much over 10mm up on stock sizes.
m3kerry, are you discouraging square setups (eg 265, 275)? Or suggesting that (intrinsic) understeer should be negotiated by driving technique and suspension?
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      04-11-2014, 05:55 AM   #12
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Quote:
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I then moved the 275's to the rear and bought 255's for the front.

Andy Hollis (hollis racing) will tell you that you don't want to go much over 10mm up on stock sizes.
m3kerry, are you discouraging square setups (eg 265, 275)? Or suggesting that (intrinsic) understeer should be negotiated by driving technique and suspension?
On my last 2 builds, e36's, i ran square. My m3 owned by robert on this board now was the fastest one running scca stu the last year i ran it and it was square.

On the 1m i don't know. The square setup will help tire life but i don't think on stock size wheels it is fastest to go square.

If your class allows a move to equal width wheels you could do it.

Marks is setup square and i have ran his wheels on my car for a day of testing.

So, two things.

One is width over stock on stock sizes, andy says 10mm and after that you dont get as much contact patch most of the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Hollis

On the 1m, it is short and the guys designing it knew you needed more grip in the rear.

I ran 265/295 hoosier's on stock suspension and the car rotated great.

I moved to d/a koni's on a scca stock legal setup and ran r comps and street tires with a ton on under steer on the staggered setup, which i blame on the h and r front sway br which is 50% stiffer than stock.
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      04-11-2014, 06:00 AM   #13
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275 in front
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      04-11-2014, 07:16 AM   #14
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Thanks m3kerry.
I shall continue stock sizes for 2014, and hope Pete can successfully run his staggered AD08R fitment in the meantime.
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      04-11-2014, 09:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
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One is width over stock on stock sizes, andy says 10mm and after that you dont get as much contact patch most of the time.
I think that's a good rule of thumb, but each case is different. The 1M runs particularly wide rims for its tires, likely to improve response- the rims are .5" wider than the M3's 18s running the same width tire. Thus even the 275/ 295 combo still falls inside the "recommended rim width" range of the stock rims. I think I'd lose a lot of transient response at that tire width, so slaloms, etc would be challenging, but I'd bet on peak grip being up.

Then there are weird cases. I can't remember- did you meet Steve, guy with the black Cayman S at SCCA nationals? He's stuffed a 315 Hoosier onto an 8.5" rim, might have been running it then, and testing shows it's faster. Undeflected contact patch isn't great, but it works.

As for my desire for front rubber, I'm concerned because I felt burned by the Dunlop Sport Maxx Race tires I tried. Stock sizes but I guess the front ran small, and I never did dial the understeer out with them on. Strange, but I don't want a repeat of that experience...
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      04-11-2014, 08:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
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I think that's a good rule of thumb, but each case is different. The 1M runs particularly wide rims for its tires, likely to improve response- the rims are .5" wider than the M3's 18s running the same width tire. Thus even the 275/ 295 combo still falls inside the "recommended rim width" range of the stock rims. I think I'd lose a lot of transient response at that tire width, so slaloms, etc would be challenging, but I'd bet on peak grip being up.

Then there are weird cases. I can't remember- did you meet Steve, guy with the black Cayman S at SCCA nationals? He's stuffed a 315 Hoosier onto an 8.5" rim, might have been running it then, and testing shows it's faster. Undeflected contact patch isn't great, but it works.

As for my desire for front rubber, I'm concerned because I felt burned by the Dunlop Sport Maxx Race tires I tried. Stock sizes but I guess the front ran small, and I never did dial the understeer out with them on. Strange, but I don't want a repeat of that experience...
On a rcomp you can over stuff and it works. On street you have about .5 or the wheel.

Yes, I meet him two years ago I think.

At the end of the day you just have to test.

The class rules mean you have to do dumb @#$% to get the car fast.

If I were just building a track day car, I would get some 18's that were .5 wider than stock and some camber plates to go on my d/a's and would probably have a fast fun car with 275/295 street tires.

I may just do it anyway.

Neil probably has the best track car setup at this point. I would like to hear his build.
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      04-11-2014, 08:39 PM   #17
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"Neil probably has the best track car setup at this point."

It's the fastest track ride I've ever been on, I was sore afterwards from trying to hold on!
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      04-11-2014, 08:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
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"Neil probably has the best track car setup at this point."

It's the fastest track ride I've ever been on, I was sore afterwards from trying to hold on!
We need to get Neil to talk
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      04-11-2014, 08:53 PM   #19
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Guys -

I'm at 46,000 miles now and will be more forthcoming after I pick up another 4,000

Neil
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      04-11-2014, 10:15 PM   #20
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It's not in the spirit of competitive racing (disclosing data), but Neil has some serious explaining to do.
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      04-12-2014, 05:25 AM   #21
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Is Neil racing or just track daying the car?
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      04-12-2014, 09:13 AM   #22
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Is Neil racing or just track daying the car?
No wheel-to-wheel in the 1M. Some time trials (One Lap, Ultimate Track Car Challenge), but mostly instructing and open-track.

Neil
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