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      01-22-2012, 06:46 AM   #1
ezeedee
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Disable E-LSD with a real LSD

im really hoping to have a OS Giken installed before summer, and I was wondering what people have done about the e-LSD. does it get disabled? or does the real LSD limit slip to the point that the e-lsd is never activated?
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      01-22-2012, 09:14 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by ezeedee View Post
im really hoping to have a OS Giken installed before summer, and I was wondering what people have done about the e-LSD. does it get disabled? or does the real LSD limit slip to the point that the e-lsd is never activated?
Pretty much from what I hear.
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      01-22-2012, 11:07 AM   #3
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I would contact someone who does coding. I am sure it can be deactivated.

I highly recommend Thorsten he lives in Munich area.


www.car-coding.de

email... webmaster@car-coding.de
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      01-22-2012, 06:23 PM   #4
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you won't get enough slip for it to come into play.

you'll notice your traction control won't come on nearly as often either, just be careful in the rain until you're used to things.

the stability control still kicks in if you start to drift, but you can definitely have some more fun then what the e-diff really allowed for.
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      01-25-2012, 11:31 AM   #5
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Sounds like a plan.
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      02-17-2012, 12:02 PM   #6
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I can say from experience the e-lsd is extremely invasive in everyday driving, if anyone wants to know how much it does either disable the ABS or disconnect a wheel speed sensor so the whole system comes offline. (don't ask how this happened to me)

Without the e-lsd active my car started spinning tires like a madman in 1st and 2nd gear, I was astonished at how active that system must be on a regular basis which I'm sure isn't good for acceleration since its applying the brakes.

I also like the idea of getting a true LSD however I don't think I'd be comfortable making that investment without a way to disable the e-diff.
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      02-17-2012, 04:28 PM   #7
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The e-diff can definitely be coded out
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      02-17-2012, 06:13 PM   #8
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Before having an LSD sometimes I'd forget to turn off traction control and would end up spinning tires and barely moving due to the brakes activating. With traction control turned off I barely noticed that the eLSD did any braking.

With an LSD I rarely even bother turning traction control off. Now it's much harder to spin tires and when I do the brief traction control lights are barely noticeable. An LSD is definitely worth the money if you drive your car hard.
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      02-17-2012, 11:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeman View Post
Before having an LSD sometimes I'd forget to turn off traction control and would end up spinning tires and barely moving due to the brakes activating. With traction control turned off I barely noticed that the eLSD did any braking.

With an LSD I rarely even bother turning traction control off. Now it's much harder to spin tires and when I do the brief traction control lights are barely noticeable. An LSD is definitely worth the money if you drive your car hard.


I tend to just leave it as DTC because at least I have something there for if I do f**k up. But with the LSD, I can actually drift the car for a bit before stability control steps in, and even when stability kicks in, there's just a wiggle from the car, and you can leave the tail end out drifting, you just lose a bit of power as the car trys to shift power around unsuccessfully. (yes it will stop you from going too far out, and if you aren't prepared for that little wiggle, the car will snap back into a straight line)

with DTC and traction on, I can get the back end out, but once it's out the power and brakes are interfered with, and the car comes back in not matter what as opposed to the slight drift in DTC

full acceleration with close to 400 wheel horsepower and DTC only will let the traction control take over if the wheels are really spinning to the point they are starting to squeal and the back end is wagging a bit. But if you feather the throttle with DTC, you can keep the tires lightly spinning all the way up to redline without interference from traction.

the car really only trys to take over the back end if the 2 rear tires are spinning at different speeds or to try and correct for yaw. but if it applys one break, it's really applying both with the limited slip (not directly, but what happens with one, sort of happens with the other since they are connected) this is why you can still drift it, it just ends up stopping the RPM from going all the way up and keeping you from doing a 180.

I'm not worried about the rear brakes, I've tested the car in all weather conditions. Warm, cold, rain, snow. The e-diff is basically rendered usesless, in fact, it almost helps you drift like a champ when you really suck at it

Yes, my post sort of covered the effects of e-diff and stability, but I think it all works better together now, instead of fighting you.
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      02-19-2012, 03:16 AM   #10
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Not sure about OS Giken and a true LSD, but with the quaife ATB, I have not had a problem with the e-diff. Ran Laguna Seca in the rain last weekend without having the e-diff kick on at any point.

DTC however can and does kick on, especially coming out of corners, but that can be turned off.
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      02-19-2012, 08:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luster View Post
The e-diff can definitely be coded out
Any idea if it could be coded in on a 128i?
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      02-19-2012, 08:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfe View Post
Any idea if it could be coded in on a 128i?
If you can tell me the version number of your DSC module, I can tell you for sure.

The DSC_89.Cxx number (if you have a coding cable).

Most of them can be coded to tell the DSC that you have an LSD.

As far as I'm aware, nobody else has coded this before, I stumbled upon it when I was trying to do some other stuff in the DSC module.

I have coded it to my car, but haven't done any extensive testing as yet.
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      02-19-2012, 10:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luster View Post
If you can tell me the version number of your DSC module, I can tell you for sure.

The DSC_89.Cxx number (if you have a coding cable).

Most of them can be coded to tell the DSC that you have an LSD.

As far as I'm aware, nobody else has coded this before, I stumbled upon it when I was trying to do some other stuff in the DSC module.

I have coded it to my car, but haven't done any extensive testing as yet.
let me know if you can tell a difference, I have the wavetrac as well I'm not worried about it, but I can get coded at a decent price, so it wouldn't be a financial burden to do it.
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      02-19-2012, 10:52 AM   #14
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I can barely get the traction control light to come on, I have an e88 and super sticky tires (and a wavetrac!).

I've been working extensively on enabling MDM for non-m. Hopefully breakthrough soon!
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      02-19-2012, 10:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luster View Post
I can barely get the traction control light to come on, I have an e88 and super sticky tires (and a wavetrac!).

I've been working extensively on enabling MDM for non-m. Hopefully breakthrough soon!
sorry for my ignorance, what's "MDM"?

And you definitely have to be hard with the car to get the traction control to kick in. I have a much easier time when my tune is turned on though.
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      02-19-2012, 11:00 AM   #16
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M Dynamic Mode, its basically a race/racetrack/looser version of the DTC. A mode reserved only for M-Series cars.
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      05-15-2013, 02:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luster View Post
M Dynamic Mode, its basically a race/racetrack/looser version of the DTC. A mode reserved only for M-Series cars.

Did this ever go anywhere further?
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      05-19-2013, 11:04 PM   #18
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The 135i has an e-LSD? I'm confused. I'm a 135i owner and I thought it had an open diff... If the e-LSD that everyone is referring to is DTC, isn't that just a less intrusive form of DSC that allows you to get a little more slip needed for starting on ice so you don't get stuck, or that allows you to have a little more fun than normal before the car saves you? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, can someone explain?
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      05-19-2013, 11:59 PM   #19
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e-lsd just means it brakes one wheel to try and give the other wheel more traction.
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      05-20-2013, 12:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezeedee View Post
what people have done about the e-LSD. does it get disabled?
It is not necessary to disable it.
The system remains active, but does not cause any problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The1 View Post
you won't get enough slip for it to come into play.
Not entirely true (see below).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluflyer06 View Post
Without the e-lsd active my car started spinning tires like a madman in 1st and 2nd gear, I was astonished at how active that system must be on a regular basis
This is the true difference between a mechanical open differential (lighting up inside tires all the time) and the electronically assisted ones in our car. The assist really works.

Quote:
which I'm sure isn't good for acceleration since its applying the brakes.
Just stating the obvious here, but it improves acceleration compared to an open diff of course. Also, "applying the brakes" is 100% correct, but doesn't tell the whole story. The system applies *some* brake to the wheel that would otherwise be spinning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fboutlaw View Post
Ran Laguna Seca in the rain last weekend without having the e-diff kick on at any point.
Incorrect. The "e-diff" kicked in all the time. You just didn't notice

Attached is an example of my car (Quaife LSD) from a recent autocross.
Light blue line is left (inside) rear brake pressure, dark blue is right (outside) rear brake pressure.
Green is throttle, red is brake pedal.

Still a lot of myth and misconceptions around the system...

Bottom line for this thread. You don't need to code it out. It's fine.
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      05-22-2013, 03:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget
e-lsd just means it brakes one wheel to try and give the other wheel more traction.
Isn't that just basic stability/traction control, DSC or DTC which gives you a higher threshold of wheel slip and slide before it kicks in? Wouldn't an LSD divert torque away from the wheel with less traction, rather than braking it?
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      05-22-2013, 03:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csween86 View Post
Isn't that just basic stability/traction control, DSC or DTC which gives you a higher threshold of wheel slip and slide before it kicks in? Wouldn't an LSD divert torque to the wheel with less slip, rather than braking the wheel which isn't getting traction?
Traction control usually just means cutting engine power due to total traction level being insufficient for the power being delivered. The eLSD is taking that a step further at looking at the wheel speed difference between the left and right, and possibly steering angle and/or yaw rate of the car, then using the brakes, not the throttle plate. It's slightly more sophisticated.

Even with TC off, the eLSD remains on and will try to keep the two wheel speeds in check. TC is cutting throttle and power, eLSD is not. You can do donuts with eLSD on but not TC.

It could be very arguable what is traction control, stability control, and eLSD functionality, so you do have a fair point. I would say TC generally does not know about the vehicle beyond total vehicle speed and average drive wheel speed, then acts on engine power. Stability control is looking at yaw rate of the car, maybe suspension displacement at each corner, things like that, and using brakes at all corners to keep yaw rate within limits. ABS looks purely at wheel speeds and maybe steering angle at best and acts on all four brakes. eLSD looks at drive wheel's speeds and maybe steering angle and acts only on drive wheel brakes to try to keep the wheel speed differene within limits
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