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      09-27-2013, 07:39 PM   #1
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values

For all the 1M owners what do you expect your car to be worth in about 3 years, ~75k miles, and why? Do you expect it to appreciate still, or depreciate finally?

I am on the fence about getting into a 1M though I love the concept. I would be coming from a built Evo, that does track duty. I am having a difficult time justifying the entry cost for a used one when I compare it to other cars/values.
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      09-27-2013, 08:20 PM   #2
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I traded my 5 year old fully built time attack ready Evo IX in 2011 for a brand new 1M and I couldn't be happier. Let me know if you want more feedback but I think this car will always have value to certain buyers because of what it is.
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      09-27-2013, 09:21 PM   #3
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as someone who shopped for a 1M for several months.....the values are strong, BUT not as much as they seem. Many cars are advertised high for long periods of time without selling. A lot of the cars i inquired about sold in the low 50s in the end. I think prices are falling.....

when the M2 details start to emerge....the prices will definitely fall much further.....

i think the 1M is an amazing car though.....and over time....they will stabilize, however as the miles increase on the cars in circulation, they will become more attainable at some point in the near future....and then take 15 years to start going up again.

of course this is all opinion...what actually happens is anybody's guess!
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      09-27-2013, 11:50 PM   #4
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Thanks for the comments. I am very involved on the EvoM forum, which is a amazing place for like minded car enthusiasts and often gets a bunch of bmw guys as well. The tuning forums are particularly strong.

So I value any opinions from the guys here that run, mod, and or track their M1s to help me know some details.

888 Do you trackday the 1M? How much track time did you have in the built Evo? Are they comparable as a track tool. My car is amazing on track, and exceptionally fun too. Its the daily driving part that probably lets it down a bit as its pretty high strung. Also, is your 1M stock?

What are some of the notable differences between the two since you have had both?

Any other comments on values appreciated. What about the Fuel Pump issues I have started reading about in the N54? Anyone modded the fuel system to support high boost ran into issues there?
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      09-28-2013, 03:18 AM   #5
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Welcome here.

I don't know a lot about 1M values in the USA but overhere they're also still strong(relatively and depending on country)

If you can, just do it!

About coming from an EVO(one of my favourite affordable 'super'cars. I owned an Impreza GTT back in '99) and switching to a 1M, I will quote fellow member and friend Advevo(he had a few EVOs too):

"The 1M is an EVO with RWD. Period."


I'd call it an Escort Mk2 rallycar on steroids

No fuel pump issues here. This is my 2nd N54.

Cheers
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      09-28-2013, 10:24 AM   #6
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Are there countries, like germany, where they sold many more 1Ms so that buying them there and importing could be a viable method? Does anyone know how the german used market for 1M is?

I had a boss that purchased his 911 flew to germany to 'test' drive it around europe and then had it sent to the US. I have done a track day vacation at the ring, and would tie that in with a purchase in europe, drive it on the track day, and then have it sent, if there was more value in the used sales there.

(I have a german background and speak german, so its an easy trip for me).

Do any of you, or do you know forum members, that track their 1M?

One obvious concern is that my current double duty car is worth about 25k. (I have spent at least 40 on it over time though). However the 1M, because of the cost would be risking a 60k car on track. In 10 years of track days I have never had a serious off, but I drive a well balance AWD car that had pulled me out of errors several times.

Thanks for all the comments! Keep em coming! From all countries!
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      09-28-2013, 10:41 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by fireroasted View Post
Are there countries, like germany, where they sold many more 1Ms so that buying them there and importing could be a viable method? Does anyone know how the german used market for 1M is?

I had a boss that purchased his 911 flew to germany to 'test' drive it around europe and then had it sent to the US. I have done a track day vacation at the ring, and would tie that in with a purchase in europe, drive it on the track day, and then have it sent, if there was more value in the used sales there.

(I have a german background and speak german, so its an easy trip for me).

Do any of you, or do you know forum members, that track their 1M?

One obvious concern is that my current double duty car is worth about 25k. (I have spent at least 40 on it over time though). However the 1M, because of the cost would be risking a 60k car on track. In 10 years of track days I have never had a serious off, but I drive a well balance AWD car that had pulled me out of errors several times.

Thanks for all the comments! Keep em coming! From all countries!
That's a fair concern about tracking 1M heavily, especially after coming from a 4wd background.

On the German values thing, we have some members here who live in Germany and maybe some will pop in and give you the accurate info about second hand values over there. And yes, Germany took the biggest share from the 1M production, ahead of US. However, I highly doubt that you will find a cheaper 1M anywhere, even before adding the transport and customs costs, this is because while the US used prices look very high, you need to remember that it is high vs the MSRP of the 1M in US which was probably the cheapest in the whole World and in some cases a fraction of what most paid in other countries.

Did you consider going for a car with a history, like some accident not important but still the car is with diminished value; in your case, that 1M could be a wiser option to mod and track.

Like others said, unless you don't like rwd cars at all, there is no way you are not going to love it.
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      09-28-2013, 10:49 AM   #8
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they are still going strong last 3-4 months, but now i realised 1 or 2 owners that decided to sell the car in low prices can really affect on the 1M's price..
the unpopularity of manual transmission will also affect buyers interest for this car,
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      09-29-2013, 12:17 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
That's a fair concern about tracking 1M heavily, especially after coming from a 4wd background.

On the German values thing, we have some members here who live in Germany and maybe some will pop in and give you the accurate info about second hand values over there. And yes, Germany took the biggest share from the 1M production, ahead of US. However, I highly doubt that you will find a cheaper 1M anywhere, even before adding the transport and customs costs, this is because while the US used prices look very high, you need to remember that it is high vs the MSRP of the 1M in US which was probably the cheapest in the whole World and in some cases a fraction of what most paid in other countries.

Did you consider going for a car with a history, like some accident not important but still the car is with diminished value; in your case, that 1M could be a wiser option to mod and track.

Like others said, unless you don't like rwd cars at all, there is no way you are not going to love it.
I actually got back into the idea by seeing a VO one for sale in auction from a salvage title. That is perfect for me and my evo was also a salvage title. Theft but still salvaged. The recent auction went without me being able to see what it went for though so I am not sure it's viable financially. I found the post of a member who buys the wrecked ones and rebuilds them and documents everything. I'll start a post to see if anyone knows the selling price. I have to find the VIN again. But yes, a "history" car is OK for me.

I'd love a RWD car that can handle the abuse the evo can. However that car is essentially indestructible. Except for when my own stupidity broke things!
Usually trans and diff related. I switched from a track prepped WRX to the evo to finally dal with under steer and reliability. The most important part of track days for me is driving there and back without drama, not really the times anymore.
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      09-29-2013, 09:04 AM   #10
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the unpopularity of manual transmission will also affect buyers interest for this car,
In the end that is going to make it so much more valuable.
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      09-29-2013, 02:48 PM   #11
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I am of the opinion that the introduction of the M2 will actually inflate prices of the 1M even further.

It is highly likely that the M2 will feature a modified version of the N20 4-cylinder engine, electric steering, start-stop, active-sound etc. and will be a far more 'digital' machine than the 1M.

Much like prices of 997 GT3 variants surging after the introduction of the 991 GT3 (PDK only, electric steerring, torque vectoring, etc. etc.), the 1M may increase in value as enthusiasts search for a 'purer' more analog experience.

I would budget a lot more money for maintenance if you're planning to regularly track the 1M though. I love my BMWs but they are not japanese track rockets when it comes to reliability.
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      09-29-2013, 04:51 PM   #12
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I am of the opinion that the introduction of the M2 will actually inflate prices of the 1M even further.

It is highly likely that the M2 will feature a modified version of the N20 4-cylinder engine, electric steering, start-stop, active-sound etc. and will be a far more 'digital' machine than the 1M.

Much like prices of 997 GT3 variants surging after the introduction of the 991 GT3 (PDK only, electric steerring, torque vectoring, etc. etc.), the 1M may increase in value as enthusiasts search for a 'purer' more analog experience.

I would budget a lot more money for maintenance if you're planning to regularly track the 1M though. I love my BMWs but they are not japanese track rockets when it comes to reliability.
+1. I agree word by word, the way that new M cars are evolving, people who bet on diminishing 1M values may get frustrated. Also, I would never sell the 1M without waiting the M2 releases and gets real world testing, merely betting that "new will naturally be better".
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      09-29-2013, 08:21 PM   #13
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Well I guess my search is demonstrating supply and demand. The first one I wanted to bid on was a salvage, and sold for more than I could bid. I don't know how much. If anyone knows that details of that sale recently on copart.com I would be very interested in how much it went for.

Then I had a very nearby one at carmax just came up. However it was 64k. Only 7k miles, and in pristine conditions, but still. 64k? I could theortically buy a used V8 M3 AND a Boss 302 for that much money. So I couldn't get myself to do it, and it sold just this morning I believe.
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      09-30-2013, 07:15 AM   #14
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The salvage one on Copart has not been selling (it's been discussed here quite a bit). If your interested in it it's up at Car Wash Cars Inc up in Glenmont NJ
They're asking $49,995 for it and as you know it's salvage. I think they just gave up on trying to sell it thru Copart as they tried to run it thru auction about 8-10 times and it never sold
They did try to sell it on eBay for $53k and then dropped the price to $51k and still no luck. So I'm sure you could pick it up for a reasonable offer
I hope this helps
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      09-30-2013, 07:39 AM   #15
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Then I had a very nearby one at carmax just came up. However it was 64k. Only 7k miles, and in pristine conditions, but still. 64k? I could theortically buy a used V8 M3 AND a Boss 302 for that much money. So I couldn't get myself to do it, and it sold just this morning I believe.
Wouldn't that make more sense for your needs? The Boss 302 would make a better track car than the 1M because of it's NA engine and longer wheelbase.

Either way, best of luck with the search.
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      09-30-2013, 09:27 AM   #16
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The way I see it is that it will likely depreciate less than a comparable car that is not as rare.

How I am using mine, and it sounds like you will use yours the exact same way (DD + DEs), I don't expect it to be worth more than what I paid. I never really expected it to. I love this car and it is perfect for my uses. Any added value is icing on the cake.

There are plenty of us that track the 1M. It is highly capable in the right hands, even in stock or relatively stock form. The biggest difference from your evo will be RWD. RWD + torque + the short wheel base create a car that is somewhat tail happy. I would recommend holding off on the power mods until you are comfortable with it in stock form (power wise). I would add stainless brake lines, better brake pads, high temp brake fluid and camber plates right off the bat. For track wheels look at Apex, they offer 18s in square or staggered configurations for our cars that are light, strong, good looking and not terribly expensive.

The fuel pump should not be an issue. Very few 1Ms have experienced fuel pump failure that was common in the earlier production 135s that had the N54. The engine does like to get hot at the track on hotter days. Depending on the climate you live in, you may want to take certain precautions to ensure you don't over heat and go into limp mode (upgraded oil cooler, thicker oil, water wetter and don't take the car to redline).
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      09-30-2013, 09:46 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b33g33 View Post

It is highly likely that the M2 will feature a modified version of the N20 4-cylinder engine, electric steering, start-stop, active-sound etc. and will be a far more 'digital' machine than the 1M.

Much like prices of 997 GT3 variants surging after the introduction of the 991 GT3 (PDK only, electric steerring, torque vectoring, etc. etc.), the 1M may increase in value as enthusiasts search for a 'purer' more analog experience.
Agree - I bought a new M135i and sold it after 4 months - all that electic stuff just makes you feel like a passenger in a car that is less intuitive to drive and leaves you emotionless - whats the point so you can go 0.00 whatever Secs faster with flappy paddle gearbox and synthetic adaptable suspension that was either too soft or too hard...???
Now the 1M - now we are talking! So much more involving and confidence inspiring. Just like a big Caterham it puts you at the center of attention.
The M2 is likely to be a mass produced machine full of electric configurable nonsense - the 1M is not and (for now) represents a limited edition machine which is the last of the breed - this will keep the values strong. The shine will only deminish when manufactures finally find away of producing cars with cost efficient funky lightweight materials (BMW i cars look promising construction wise..) and then add a bit of added lightness to not only lower CO2 figures but also ultimately find a way to a drivers heart!

- Porsche 918 without the batteries please
- F1 with manual gearboxes and no wings (& circuits with big jumps ;-)
- Rally cars with out active differentlials

Technology has it's lmitiations and newer is not always better...
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      09-30-2013, 10:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by b33g33 View Post

It is highly likely that the M2 will feature a modified version of the N20 4-cylinder engine, electric steering, start-stop, active-sound etc. and will be a far more 'digital' machine than the 1M.

Much like prices of 997 GT3 variants surging after the introduction of the 991 GT3 (PDK only, electric steerring, torque vectoring, etc. etc.), the 1M may increase in value as enthusiasts search for a 'purer' more analog experience.
Agree - I bought a new M135i and sold it after 4 months - all that electic stuff just makes you feel like a passenger in a car that is less intuitive to drive and leaves you emotionless - whats the point so you can go 0.00 whatever Secs faster with flappy paddle gearbox and synthetic adaptable suspension that was either too soft or too hard...???
Now the 1M - now we are talking! So much more involving and confidence inspiring. Just like a big Caterham it puts you at the center of attention.
The M2 is likely to be a mass produced machine full of electric configurable nonsense - the 1M is not and (for now) represents a limited edition machine which is the last of the breed - this will keep the values strong. The shine will only deminish when manufactures finally find away of producing cars with cost efficient funky lightweight materials (BMW i cars look promising construction wise..) and then add a bit of added lightness to not only lower CO2 figures but also ultimately find a way to a drivers heart!

- Porsche 918 without the batteries please
- F1 with manual gearboxes and no wings (& circuits with big jumps ;-)
- Rally cars with out active differentlials

Technology has it's lmitiations and newer is not always better...
I really wish there was a "like" button on this forum.

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      10-01-2013, 12:11 AM   #19
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Thanks for all the feedback. I just caught up on the threads about 740's attempted sales. I have been watching other auctions and salvage comes with a price, fully realized when you try to sell it. That is what glassoman was suffering from too.

I love the approach of him fully disclosing the process of repair with photos. That was a smart move but still didn't get the value he was probably hoping for. I also see it as maxed at 40k. Since 50 will get you a stripper with 30k miles but clean title. The savings needs to be more than 20% I believe to make financial sense.

60 is a bit looney, but folks with the means are risking continued appreciation, so they can justify the risk. Guys that are breaking the bank to make that happen can't tolerate that risk, and shouldn't be betting. many comments on that thread were spot on. The market has spoken at 32 k repeatedly.

I'll put up 35. And keep it in the US! Hahahaha
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      10-01-2013, 02:42 AM   #20
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Customers have wrecked at least six 1M over here.
New owners apparently love to switch everything off, and give it a go the first time in the car...
I'd bet mine will be one of very few shortly
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      10-01-2013, 04:53 AM   #21
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Customers have wrecked at least six 1M over here.
New owners apparently love to switch everything off, and give it a go the first time in the car...
I'd bet mine will be one of very few shortly
How many 1M are there in Sweden?

In the Netherlands(17 million people) about 40 afaik, and I don't know anything about salvaged ones overhere.

Cheers
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      10-01-2013, 12:55 PM   #22
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I feel the value of this car down the road will be heavily influenced by what other cars come out and the tech and performance they have or don't have. The end of the manual transmission is coming who knows in 10years there might be a rush on cars that have the good ol' stuff.

Not like me to quote Matt Farah but hes right when he said there is almost nothing about the car to get outdated. Worth something... every new BMW that comes out will supersede the current car with more and better tech. The 1M will always be what it is, just a great little package simple as that.
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