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      05-05-2013, 11:44 AM   #1
Pete_vB
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Dunlop Sport Maxx Race Initial Review

I've had these tires on my stock 1M in the stock 19" sizes for nearly a week now, street use and one autocross yesterday. I took TTOD at that event, but so far things are decidedly mixed. I'm comparing primarily to the Pilot Super Sport, which I just took off, and the Hankook R-S3.

Grip vs temperature on the street: The SMRs do need some heat to work, similar to the R-S3s. At 60 degrees in the morning you'll be able to light them up all day long. Breakaway isn't as progressive as the Hankooks in these conditions, but they are catch-able. Simply driving on the highway at the speed limit does get a fair bit of heat into the tire, however (about 25-30 degrees) and grip improves quickly. If it's above ~70 degrees out and you get some heat into the tire grip exceeds the PSS or Hankook, and the difference grows significantly with temperature. When warmed and TC off the the SMRs don't spin up the rear even in 1st gear with significant steering lock dialed in- very impressive.

Street noise, vibration, harshness: I'm generally not sensitive to road noise or ride, but the Maxx Race ride better than I would have expected. They seem slightly harsher over cracks, etc than the PSS, but reasonably close when warm (not so much when they are cold). There is significant road noise transmitted on certain pavement, much more than a PSS, but on some roads they are quite.

So far, so good- all of the above was about as I'd expected. What I didn't expect, however:

The SMRs need significantly more camber to work than the car has (or is capable of) stock. My stock car clearly doesn't have enough camber to work them correctly, and this causes big problems.

At the autocross yesterday things started well- with temperatures in the 90s, first run was enough to bring the tires up to temp, and I was on the pace immediately. Unfortunately the car was under-steering somewhat almost immediately, very different to the PSS or Hankooks which I tend to drive very sideways. With more runs the understeer increased until it was very bad- tire temps showed the outside fronts badly overheating, and towards the end of the run (42 second course) the push was debilitating and costing major time. Over six runs in the morning is found less than a second regardless of what I tried, helpless against terminal under-steer.

In the afternoon I changed strategy- I jacked the tire pressure around and I borrowed some water and sprayed the fronts down between every run. This helped- it wasn't enough to eliminate the understeer, but it reduced it to the point that I was able to manage it and take TTOD.

Because the car setup was so compromised I'm not sure I can draw great conclusions yet. The tires seem less progressive than the Hankooks, doesn't like to be drifted as much, but significantly stickier. Soft sidewalls, turn-in is maybe similar to the PSS, so less sharp than a PS2. Narrower operating temperature range than I'd expected, and they get greasy when they overheat. Sticky as hell when temps are correct, but they need camber to work.

I was planning to keep the car as stock as I could, but I think I'm looking for an elegant way to increase front camber by ~1.5 degrees to give these tires a fair shake, maybe an adjustable swaybar too. If I do these I expect to drop over a second- the grip seems to be there, I'm just not set up to use it.

Bottom line, for guys that run modified cars this might be the fastest tire you can get currently that you can practically drive to the course, though I worry a little about overheating depending on conditions. It's clearly much stickier than the R-S3, no question, and while it doesn't feel quite like a hoosier, grip is still very impressive. For a stock car, however, I can't recommend it- it seems to need the car set up correctly to work.
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      05-05-2013, 12:33 PM   #2
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I am planning to leave the suspension alone for now and find a good dual use tire for the street and an occasional autox or track day. I appreciate your feedback because I doubt this tire will work for me.

Sounds like my options are still PSS (concerned about the reports of heat cycling issues, and have had similar loss of performance over time with PS2), RE-11 (concerned about weight, how the hell do they weigh so much??) and AD08 which is shaping up to be the best choice for me, even though I HATE the tread pattern.
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      05-05-2013, 07:17 PM   #3
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Hi Pete, thanks for the feedback, and that pretty much confirmed that PSS will suit 90% of people driving the car. Let us know how you go after your camber adjustments. I do prefer a tyre that can work with a wide range of temperature as I could be doing 5 hotlaps or 30 depending on track day.

It will be interesting in the next few months with new tires coming out: the new AD08R which is more a competitor to PSS I assume will stack up and the Michelin Pilot Sports Cup 2 will compare to the SMR.
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      05-05-2013, 08:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post

It will be interesting in the next few months with new tires coming out: the new AD08R which is more a competitor to PSS I assume will stack up and the Michelin Pilot Sports Cup 2 will compare to the SMR.
Why do you say the AD08R is more a competitor to the PSS?
I had PSS before my AD08s and they are very different tyres. AD08s are lot stiffer and noisier but also way way grippier and don't tear and chunk on the track.
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      05-05-2013, 09:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
Why do you say the AD08R is more a competitor to the PSS?
I had PSS before my AD08s and they are very different tyres. AD08s are lot stiffer and noisier but also way way grippier and don't tear and chunk on the track.
My apologies, I am only talking about the occasional track days market .

To be honest, I don't have first hand experience with the AD08 but from looking at various threads the PSS is about 0.2 slower than the AD08 on average for a 1 minute track, it has the advantage of going much faster in the wet. Although it chucks on track but it still give similar life to the AD08s for tracks.

The AD08R is apparently 2 seconds faster and that will certainly push me over to the Yokohama camp even if there is no improvement on wet performance, providing it gives good performance with both long and short runs.
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      05-05-2013, 09:38 PM   #6
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Bfg rival 275/35 front and 295/35 rear on a set of 18/10's is probably the best bet at this point.

On stock size wheels the 275/30/19 and 305/30/19 re11s look like a fit but is probably over stuffing for street tires.

Right now, i am racing a mini for the year waiting on scca classing for 2014. Just tried of the 5k a year tire bill on the hoosiers.

I wrote a letter today to get the car moved to stu. If that happens, i will be going with a square rivals setup. and about -3 in front camber.

If the scca goes with street tires and camber plates in stock then 275/295 rival on 18's


Cars tend to be faster on not to much extra street tire vs how much can you shove on in a rcomp.

Side not, dont over anti roll bar the car. The e93 m bar is just right in the front.
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      05-05-2013, 10:20 PM   #7
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+1 on don't over do the sway bar. You'll increase understeer with any swaybar so you'll have to find a happy medium (before you get camber)

When you encounter a hot day spray tires early and often, if you wait to get up to temp and realize you're cooking the fronts you'll never recover and spraying water will do nothing.
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      05-06-2013, 03:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3kerry View Post
Bfg rival 275/35 front and 295/35 rear on a set of 18/10's is probably the best bet at this point.
I wish the rivals came in sizes that were a better match for my wheels, etc. A friend was out there on them and he was less than a second behind me. Loves them, says they are the best tires he's ever tired, good at everything so far.

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Originally Posted by m3kerry View Post
If the scca goes with street tires and camber plates
I've heard something about them backpedaling from full camber plates. Something about them maybe allowing slotting to get more camber? It'd be nice to know.

Pulling the pins and then camber plates are really the only two options for more front camber on our cars, right? There are no shims, etc...
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      05-06-2013, 03:53 PM   #9
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Wow those are pricey.

More grip than the RS-3 is saying a lot though. My RS-3s grip like a mother, but I am also running sizes larger than stock.
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      05-06-2013, 04:56 PM   #10
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I think they will allow the camber plates and i bet the rivals come in more sizes next year. They have issues with splicing at this point.

The camber allowance would get a lot of cars running that have given p over the years because of eating tires. I am through not having camber, so this car may run in asp just so it is affordable to run.
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      05-06-2013, 05:53 PM   #11
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Wow those are pricey.

More grip than the RS-3 is saying a lot though. My RS-3s grip like a mother, but I am also running sizes larger than stock.
no joke.. understatement of the year there. I think I went into shock when I looked up the price..


Hankook RS-3s are a ** darn** good value...
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      05-06-2013, 05:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
I wish the rivals came in sizes that were a better match for my wheels, etc. A friend was out there on them and he was less than a second behind me. Loves them, says they are the best tires he's ever tired, good at everything so far.


I've heard something about them backpedaling from full camber plates. Something about them maybe allowing slotting to get more camber? It'd be nice to know.

Pulling the pins and then camber plates are really the only two options for more front camber on our cars, right? There are no shims, etc...
aside from outright camber plates.. Correct.

I competed in an event this past weekend on BF Goodrich R1 tires. Not an SCCA style event so I decided to run the R tires over my RS-3s. I ended up .5 secs behind a very light honda CRX on BFG Rivals. The other two cars that finished a few tenths ahead were also full autocross/track machines on the Dunlop ZII (one was an E46 M3 and the other an E36 M3). I was fourth overall.

the TTOD driver said he likes the BFG Rivals, but when they got to the point where he thought he would have 10-15 runs left on them, he began to have issues with the shoulder delaminating.. which sounds like your experience with the MAXX race. This on a 2000 lbs Honda CRX with the requisitite motor swap.. CSP type car on street tires..... at any rate.. that doesnt bode well for heavier cars..
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      11-07-2013, 06:12 AM   #13
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An older thread, but can Pete or anyone else provide further feedback regarding Dunlop Sport Maxx Race?

In particular:
(a) Longevity - how many track (road racing) days?
(b) Performance - what target pressures, comparison with alternatives?

Having used 245/265 Michelin PSCup+ this year (lasting six to eight events), I am planning ahead for next year.

Thanks,
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      11-11-2013, 12:56 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by timbo_3101 View Post
An older thread, but can Pete or anyone else provide further feedback regarding Dunlop Sport Maxx Race?

In particular:
(a) Longevity - how many track (road racing) days?
(b) Performance - what target pressures, comparison with alternatives?

Having used 245/265 Michelin PSCup+ this year (lasting six to eight events), I am planning ahead for next year.
I can't give you good feedback on longevity; unfortunately I've been traveling too much to burn through a set so far.

I added camber plates up front, and this reduced the serious outside shoulder wear issue that looked like it might cord the fronts in days. Since then wear seems to have been better than I would expected, probably better than RS-3s, though I might worry about them in hot conditions as they do seem like they can get overheated.

The big issue with the tires has been that adding more camber up front did not cure the car's balance issues like I'd hope it would. Instead the car still understeers significantly more than I'd like it to with these tires on. I feel like curing this will require an adjustable swaybar, something I've wanted to avoid.

For this reason I'm not planning to get these tires again, and I don't think they suit a relatively stock 1M. If you've got more suspension adjustability (camber plates plus swaybars) I might give them a try- clearly the new GT3 makes them work very well. Personally I'm looking forward to the MPSC2s or Rivals being available in more sizes.
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      11-11-2013, 10:56 AM   #15
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Hey Timbo, have you look at the Trofeo Rs? It is becoming the tyre to pick for a few people especially from rennlist. I managed to puncture my tyre in the first session so don't know what's the track longevity is, but in terms of street life, I have driven probably close to 3000km now without much wear despite how soft they are.

I picked up two seconds on my third hot lap and without a slower car in front I would have probably picked up another second as there were so much grip left to explore.
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      11-11-2013, 08:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
The big issue with the tires has been that adding more camber up front did not cure the car's balance issues like I'd hope it would. Instead the car still understeers significantly more than I'd like it to with these tires on.
Thank you again Pete.
We have the same issues regarding shoulder wear without camber, yet understeer with camber
At worst, my vehicle (Clubsport at -3.3 camber and -1.0 toe) is shuddering and jarring on tight corners at 70km/h.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Hey Timbo, have you look at the Trofeo Rs? It is becoming the tyre to pick for a few people especially from rennlist. I managed to puncture my tyre in the first session so don't know what's the track longevity is, but in terms of street life, I have driven probably close to 3000km now without much wear despite how soft they are.
Thanks Sparoz.
I see that early comments are positive, and have considered these anecdotal reports. However, the reported longevity seems short ie five or six events. (Treadwear rating 60 compares to rivals at 80 ... but not so relevant since they will be discarded after 1500km.)
In reality, the limiting factor for myself is driver performance (poor) not tyre traction, and changing tyres may demand further refinements to suspension
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