6AT ATF Flush?

[froop]

Does anyone else here have a 6AT 135i and/or have any experience with servicing the transmission?

I'm at almost 100,000km and since going to the track day in September I've noticed that the tranny is really not very smooth...

I've done a bit of research into fluids flushes and services but the main question I have is which fluid should I go with when I get it serviced or flushed?

I know that we use either Shell M1375.4 or ZF Lifeguard 6 and people have used Redline D4. I've also read somewhere that someone used Castrol Transmax Z.

Are Redline and Castrol suitable alternatives and of the 4 options, which would be the most suitable if I'm tracking the car?

[Drawn05]

Call Peter at Advan or PM Peter's username 'Skycat'

100,000kms is ripe for a fluid flush and new filter pan. I had mine done a few months back.

Resetting the TCU adaptations also improves rough shifting.

[froop]

Originally Posted by Drawn05

Call Peter at Advan or PM Peter's username 'Skycat'

100,000kms is ripe for a fluid flush and new filter pan. I had mine done a few months back.

Resetting the TCU adaptations also improves rough shifting.

Thanks Steve,

Yeah I PM'd Peter and got a quote for the service but I wasn't sure what fluid he would use or what would be better and sent him another PM but haven't head back from him yet.

What km's did you do your service and were you having any issues with the the tranny coming up to the service?

Also, what fluid did you go with?

[Drawn05]

Peter uses ZF Lifeguard 6 and its the only thing you want to go with, as recommended by ZF.

From memory, I had ~43,000kms and had suffered from power loss and really slow shifting at a track day. Putting more power through the transmission isnt a good idea if you dont make an effort to protect it.

[froop]

Ah cool sounds good.

Yeah I read on the ZF website that our ZF6HP19/21 transmissions were only supposed to take a maximum input torque of 450nM which is a little worrying.

[Drawn05]

That figure of 450nm is not really consumer level info. Rather it is commercial data that means that the product can handle applications of up to 450nm of input torque and maintain a low failure rate. I am sure the real figure is much higher than this, as so many 6HP21s have been getting 500nm+ for a few years now and no-one has had theirs die on them (or at least posted on the web about it).

There are a few guys on here that have ATs and are heavily moded and dont seem to have any problems, so you should be fine.

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by Drawn05

That figure of 450nm is not really consumer level info. Rather it is commercial data that means that the product can handle applications of up to 450nm of input torque and maintain a low failure rate. I am sure the real figure is much higher than this, as so many 6HP21s have been getting 500nm+ for a few years now and no-one has had theirs die on them (or at least posted on the web about it).

There are a few guys on here that have ATs and are heavily moded and dont seem to have any problems, so you should be fine.

If you read around, plenty of people getting ATF failures, needing rebuilds at high tq and high power levels - needing uprated torque converters and such... I don't know enough about the at's to say anything much more than 'i've seen people rebuilding them!'

There's a couple of people posting about it on another bmw forum recently

[pavo335]

i thought there was an upgrade for higher TQ....

[froop]

Originally Posted by pavo335

i thought there was an upgrade for higher TQ....

Upgrade how?

I know that the auto transmissions can definitely handle the extra power and torque. Edwin's certainly has enough of that but I guess I'm worried because mine has significantly more km's on it.

I remember reading about the BMW PPK upgrade for our N54's saying that it upgraded cars with the auto trans to 450nM but the manual only upgraded to 430nM as the manual gearbox wasn't able to handle the extra torque. But then again many here with manuals have way more than 450 and aren't breaking.

[Dackelone]

ZF (the people whg make the auto trans!) say you should change the trans fluid every 80K kms. (I think?). BMW says its a lifetime fluid. ZF calls the fluid LifeGruard.

This place sells fluid and filter service kits. I think changing your trans fluid is a good idea. Drop the AT pan and clean out all the metal and gunk in there. And then replace the filter. You will need new bolts and a gasket. The ctsc sells everything you need. Just look up your trans code on RealOEM.com (under trans menu) and then find which filter kit you need.

http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=c...parent=57&pg=1

There was a DIY thread for the AT in which someone bought a filter fluid kit from ctsc. Try searching for it.


Dackel

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by froop

Upgrade how?

I know that the auto transmissions can definitely handle the extra power and torque. Edwin's certainly has enough of that but I guess I'm worried because mine has significantly more km's on it.

I remember reading about the BMW PPK upgrade for our N54's saying that it upgraded cars with the auto trans to 450nM but the manual only upgraded to 430nM as the manual gearbox wasn't able to handle the extra torque. But then again many here with manuals have way more than 450 and aren't breaking.

I think there are quite a few different versions of the Auto Trans. The later versions can handle much more Torque than the early ones. I wanna say its klike early ones are 400ish Nm rated while later ones can handle 680Nm-ish. I think I saw that on some ZF service documents a while back while I was researching servicing my automatic trans for my e39, I ran across those ZF service docs.


These guys also have the ZF service docs online. They also sell the service kits of fluid and filter changes.

http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=home



Dack

[froop]

Thanks Dack =)

As for the slipping issue... I think the symptoms I'm having are exactly that... *sigh*. I'm just hoping that it fixes with a simple flush and pan replacement...

[flinchy]

Originally Posted by froop

Thanks Dack =)

As for the slipping issue... I think the symptoms I'm having are exactly that... *sigh*. I'm just hoping that it fixes with a simple flush and pan replacement...

Slipping as in the revs rise and don't come down for a bit in between gear changes?

One thread i found had said symptoms, on an fbo jb4.. not much else other than 'changed transmission oil and over a few days the transmission totally stopped slipping again'.. Which is positive lol

[eriktufa]

How much were you guys quoted to do transmission fluid flush?

I was recently quote $750 including new oil pain, seal, filter and fluid.

[Mechz]

Originally Posted by eriktufa

How much were you guys quoted to do transmission fluid flush?

I was recently quote $750 including new oil pain, seal, filter and fluid.

That seems waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much.

[kaitan]

Originally Posted by Mechz

That seems waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much.

I thought $750 for transmission fluid flush and filter is reasonable? Maybe in NSW? Unless someone can tell me how much have they been charged? Can PM me if you want.

Having said that, Sorry to But is it better to service the transmission before or after a day at the track? From cost savings perspective is change after right? but ofcourse it's better if it's done before and after?

[froop]

Originally Posted by Mechz

That seems waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much.

Well if they're using ZF lifeguard and a BMW sump pan then it's not that bad. In Aust the ATF probably costs ~$50-60/litre and you need ~6 litres? The pan would be $200-300.

[choppedliver]

I thought Advan had a special on this some time back and it was ~$600.

B

[eriktufa]

I just got a better quote yesterday and it will involve 20 litres of fluid!!!!

and with simple explanation I sort of understand why you need 20 litres.

[froop]

Originally Posted by eriktufa

I just got a better quote yesterday and it will involve 20 litres of fluid!!!!

and with simple explanation I sort of understand why you need 20 litres.

20 Litres of ZF Lifeguard 6? Where from and how much if you don't mind me asking?

I'm thinking that with the condition my tranny is in I might need to do multiple flushes.

[eriktufa]

Froop: sorry I'm late getting back to you. I'm using Ramp Auto Group in Perth and they recommend Liqui Moly oils for my engine and tranny.
After few discussion, it is safe to say that we need 15 litres of tranny oil to completely flush the whole thing. Price is around $500