BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-02-2012, 08:38 AM   #1
OneM
0
Private
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: -

Posts: 57
iTrader: (0)

Redline ATF for Manual Transmission

After my run-in period, I changed the transmission fluid to the recommended BMW MTF LT-5. Didn't make much of a difference as the gearbox was still notchy, especially going into 2nd gear.

As the BMW LT-5 isn't a synthetic oil I researched other BMW forums that recommended the use of Redline's synthetic transmission oil. On Redline's website itself, their application guide for our 1M's recommends the use of their 'D6 ATF'. And I know ATF stands for 'automatic transmission fluid' but on the rear of the bottle it does say for manual transmissions too.

So I gave it a shot. My my.. and I ain't exaggerating when I say this, its pretty much night and day difference. Mostly after after a couple of days usage. Not only is it smooth going into gears the vehicle's performance and mileage improves due to its lower resistance. And that's something you can feel.. the lower resistance and smoother acceleration.

Now I know there'll be skeptics out there which is fine. I'm here just sharing my personal experience and I believe that's what forums were created for. So for those who only stick to OEM fluids that's perfectly fine too. For others willing to give it a try, I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprise by this synthetic oil.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf red-line-30704.jpg 500◊500 pixels.pdf (31.9 KB, 282 views)
File Type: pdf Red Line Oil Application Search.pdf (115.5 KB, 234 views)

Last edited by OneM; 11-02-2012 at 08:44 AM.
OneM is offline  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-03-2012, 12:09 PM   #2
LotusBoy
0
Private First Class
 
Drives: BSM 1M, N55, KW's DDC
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brussels

Posts: 119
iTrader: (0)

Mhhhhh, very interesting ! The only downside could be long term reliability. Keep us posted if you got any issues ...
LotusBoy is offline  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-03-2012, 12:53 PM   #3
RimasRS
0
Colonel
 
RimasRS's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i MT 2009 AW
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Europe

Posts: 2,397
iTrader: (0)

Interesting also how it will work in negative temps
RimasRS is offline  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-03-2012, 01:45 PM   #4
nachob
0
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2011 1M Coupe - SOLD
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: California

Posts: 1,707
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneM View Post
After my run-in period, I changed the transmission fluid to the recommended BMW MTF LT-5. Didn't make much of a difference as the gearbox was still notchy, especially going into 2nd gear.

As the BMW LT-5 isn't a synthetic oil I researched other BMW forums that recommended the use of Redline's synthetic transmission oil. On Redline's website itself, their application guide for our 1M's recommends the use of their 'D6 ATF'. And I know ATF stands for 'automatic transmission fluid' but on the rear of the bottle it does say for manual transmissions too.

So I gave it a shot. My my.. and I ain't exaggerating when I say this, its pretty much night and day difference. Mostly after after a couple of days usage. Not only is it smooth going into gears the vehicle's performance and mileage improves due to its lower resistance. And that's something you can feel.. the lower resistance and smoother acceleration.

Now I know there'll be skeptics out there which is fine. I'm here just sharing my personal experience and I believe that's what forums were created for. So for those who only stick to OEM fluids that's perfectly fine too. For others willing to give it a try, I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprise by this synthetic oil.


I tried Redline in place of LT-2 in my E46 and it made a great difference in late August. Once October and November rolled around, I did not like it's cold properties. The shifter felt gummy until the car warmed up which was usually when i was pulling into my parking space at work. Too little, too late. I think the bigger concern is that LT-5 was especially formulated for the 1M and they were very specific about it. I believe there was some new coating in the gears that they were concerned about and the previous MT fluid was not compatible with it....You just put some of the older stuff in your gearbox. Yes it's synthetic but not sure how wise it is especially under warranty. Also, Redline has a red color which is a tell-tale sign if you experience transmission problems and they see the stuff. I hope it works out.


I recently replaced my fluid with LT-5 and while picking it up, the parts guy told me there was an LT-6 that supersceded LT-5. I didn't confirm, just asked him for the LT-5 but it might be worth looking at that instead of potentially ruining your gearbox and getting caught in a warranty debacle. At this point it will take more than one gear oil change for the fluid not to have a red tinge to it. Cars that were accidentally filled with LT-3 by the dealer, I believe were offered extended warranty on gearbox.

Good luck, truly hope I'm wrong on this one.
nachob is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-04-2012, 02:41 AM   #5
Dackelone
1
Moderator
 
Dackelone's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i Silber mit/Rot 6MT N54
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

Posts: 16,533
iTrader: (1)

I used Redline's ATF D4 in my old 323i e36 years ago. BMW spec'd LT-2 for that manual trans for the 2.5L six engine. I also noticed the shifter was MUCH smoother with Redline than with what was in it before. I assume it had the OE BMW LT-2 fluid. Car had around 100K kms when I changed over to Redline D4. I kept that car a for four years and it had 245K kms on it when I sold it. The trans shifted smoothly when I sold it. I changed the trans fluid three times in the 140K kms I owned it. The car always was parked outside in the cold German winters, and I never had trouble shifting gears cold.

I have been using Redline ATF D4 in my 135i for about 40K kms now. It also shifts MUCH smoother than with BMW's MTF-LT4 fluid. Fist time I changed my manual trans fluid was with LT4. The trans seemed to shift about the same. Maybe a tad worse when cold. My 135i trans always had a notchy 2nd gear when the trans was cold.

I then switched to Redline ATF D4 in my 135i N54 manual trans. It shifts so much better now! When the trans is cold, it is most noticeable the improvement in shifting smoothness. My 135i is parked inside a garage - not outside though. I would never go back to BMW trans oil in one of my cars.


Dackel
Dackelone is offline   Germany
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-04-2012, 02:43 AM   #6
Dackelone
1
Moderator
 
Dackelone's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i Silber mit/Rot 6MT N54
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

Posts: 16,533
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RimasRS View Post
Interesting also how it will work in negative temps
I never noticed that in my old e36. (see my post bellow). The coldest winter I had with that car it went down to -22'C and the car was parked outside!

Redlines AFT D6 flows better at colder temps.
Dackelone is offline   Germany
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-04-2012, 06:02 AM   #7
RimasRS
0
Colonel
 
RimasRS's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i MT 2009 AW
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Europe

Posts: 2,397
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I never noticed that in my old e36. (see my post bellow). The coldest winter I had with that car it went down to -22'C and the car was parked outside!

Redlines AFT D6 flows better at colder temps.
Good to know. I want to do M3 diff upgrade so would be nice to try red line at the same in it.
RimasRS is offline  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-04-2012, 12:54 PM   #8
ayao
0
Thread killer
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CA

Posts: 620
iTrader: (1)

FWIW ... This is what Mike Miller suggests in his maintenance FAQ:

"All the BMW gearbox rebuilders I know use Red Line MTL exclusively, regardless of model year or gearbox. The general consensus is that MTL is the better lubricant.

However, Red Line D4ATF will require less shifter babying during cold operation. I use Red Line MTL in manual gearboxes except where I canít trust the driver to shift properly when the gearbox is cold, in which case I use Red Line D4 ATF."
ayao is online now  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-04-2012, 01:18 PM   #9
nachob
0
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2011 1M Coupe - SOLD
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: California

Posts: 1,707
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayao View Post
FWIW ... This is what Mike Miller suggests in his maintenance FAQ:

"All the BMW gearbox rebuilders I know use Red Line MTL exclusively, regardless of model year or gearbox. The general consensus is that MTL is the better lubricant.

However, Red Line D4ATF will require less shifter babying during cold operation. I use Red Line MTL in manual gearboxes except where I canít trust the driver to shift properly when the gearbox is cold, in which case I use Red Line D4 ATF."
I had the same experience, Redline MTL wasn't awful just "gummier" when cold than stock stuff LT2 in my experience. I never tried ATF though. Only in E36 that already called for ATF and it was great there.


I still worry a bit because BMW made a special fluid for this gearbox and I think some more research should be done before swapping the fluid.

Of course if a fellow addict is willing to risk their tranny for the greater good, to find out which is better, I think that is cool, I just feel bad for Dan Parker and his mess and would hate to see another 1Mer with a transmission/warranty fiasco.

Last edited by nachob; 11-04-2012 at 01:41 PM.
nachob is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-04-2012, 01:38 PM   #10
nachob
0
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2011 1M Coupe - SOLD
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: California

Posts: 1,707
iTrader: (3)

MY BAD! MY BAD! Sorry to everyone

I misread the post, the OP was talking about ATF in the gearbox. I used MTL and had the cold gummier thing. Didn't try ATF. Sorry! Dackel, if you want to strike everything I said, make it go away, except the warranty concern.

I did use Redline ATF in E36 328i 5MT and it has been good so far but E36 called for Dexron ATF so it didn't seem like a big risk.
nachob is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-04-2012, 01:43 PM   #11
Dackelone
1
Moderator
 
Dackelone's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i Silber mit/Rot 6MT N54
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

Posts: 16,533
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
MY BAD! MY BAD! Sorry to everyone

I misread the post, the OP was talking about ATF in the gearbox. I used MTL and had the cold gummier thing. Didn't try ATF. Sorry! Dackel, if you want to strike everything I said, make it go away, except the warranty concern.

I did use Redline ATF in E36 328i and it has been good so far but E36 called for Dexron ATF so it didn't seem like a big risk.
No problem. I think people can read and figure out what you posted.


I will just say I can highly recommend Redline's ATF D4 in a bmw manual trans.
Dackelone is offline   Germany
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2012, 04:39 PM   #12
LotusBoy
0
Private First Class
 
Drives: BSM 1M, N55, KW's DDC
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brussels

Posts: 119
iTrader: (0)

All very interesting, but also a bit puzzling: why didn't BMW put these type of fluids in our cars in the first place ? There seems to be no disadvantage, and I can't imagine that cost was an issue. Anyway, I'm seriously considering using Redline's ATF D4 or D6 when my warranty expires, as a smooth shifting gearbox adds so much to a sportscar appeal ...

Last edited by LotusBoy; 11-05-2012 at 04:40 PM. Reason: spelling
LotusBoy is offline  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2012, 05:30 PM   #13
ayao
0
Thread killer
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CA

Posts: 620
iTrader: (1)

My suspicion is that they're all generally fine (even BMW's MTF LT-5) as long as one doesn't buy into the lifetime-fill B.S. ...
ayao is online now  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2012, 10:02 PM   #14
OneM
0
Private
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: -

Posts: 57
iTrader: (0)

LotusBoy: I'm sure BMW ain't gonna recommend another product if they've got their own (i.e. BMW LT-5)
OneM is offline  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2012, 10:06 PM   #15
Em/1
0
First Lieutenant
 
Em/1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 1M VO
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Chicago

Posts: 355
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 Jaguar XJ8  [0.00]
2011 BMW 1M  [0.00]
2011 VW GTI  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneM View Post
After my run-in period, I changed the transmission fluid to the recommended BMW MTF LT-5. Didn't make much of a difference as the gearbox was still notchy, especially going into 2nd gear.

As the BMW LT-5 isn't a synthetic oil I researched other BMW forums that recommended the use of Redline's synthetic transmission oil. On Redline's website itself, their application guide for our 1M's recommends the use of their 'D6 ATF'. And I know ATF stands for 'automatic transmission fluid' but on the rear of the bottle it does say for manual transmissions too.

So I gave it a shot. My my.. and I ain't exaggerating when I say this, its pretty much night and day difference. Mostly after after a couple of days usage. Not only is it smooth going into gears the vehicle's performance and mileage improves due to its lower resistance. And that's something you can feel.. the lower resistance and smoother acceleration.
Now I know there'll be skeptics out there which is fine. I'm here just sharing my personal experience and I believe that's what forums were created for. So for those who only stick to OEM fluids that's perfectly fine too. For others willing to give it a try, I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprise by this synthetic oil.
FWIW, when my dealer put the wrong stuff in my trans, I emailed Mikey (Roundel tech editor) and also talked to a rep at Redline. Mikey stood behind his Redline MTL rec but the Redline guy hedged once he heard that my gearbox was "unique" and not same as 135 and for a while they had removed the ATF D6 as a rec on the website, but maybe they have checked and decided OK...
Em/1 is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-05-2012, 10:13 PM   #16
OneM
0
Private
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: -

Posts: 57
iTrader: (0)

Em/1: D6 ATF is only recommended for the 1M, not 135i (on Redline's website)
OneM is offline  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 01:35 AM   #17
ayao
0
Thread killer
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CA

Posts: 620
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Em/1 View Post
FWIW, when my dealer put the wrong stuff in my trans, I emailed Mikey (Roundel tech editor) and also talked to a rep at Redline. Mikey stood behind his Redline MTL rec but the Redline guy hedged once he heard that my gearbox was "unique" and not same as 135 and for a while they had removed the ATF D6 as a rec on the website, but maybe they have checked and decided OK...
I'm not sure the 1M's gearbox is unique. I seem to recall that it's the same 6-spd unit from any N55 135i. This is borne out by realoem...
ayao is online now  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 01:52 AM   #18
fboutlaw
0
Cone Cruncher
 
fboutlaw's Avatar
 
Drives: Dinan 135i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cupertino, CA

Posts: 505
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneM View Post
Em/1: D6 ATF is only recommended for the 1M, not 135i (on Redline's website)
Redline's website does now have D6 ATF listed for the 135i.

I just switched to D6 ATF 2 weeks ago in my 135i manual.

My car has only has 30k miles on it, but as it's driven in city/autox/track I felt like I should change all the fluids at the end of this season. Not surprisingly, the fluid I drained out of the tranny was hideous. I didn't take pics, but I think dackel has a thread somewhere and my experience was similar to his; just thick black fluid.

The D6 ATF didn't make a significant difference in shifting, maybe it's a little smoother, but I'll chalk that up to the placebo effect. All I can say is that I have peace of mind that there is a clean oil in the car now, and based on what I pulled out, the car was due well before the service interval.

So if you're on the fence: D6 ATF Good (or new BMW oil), old oil bad
fboutlaw is offline   United_States
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 06:28 AM   #19
OneM
0
Private
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: -

Posts: 57
iTrader: (0)

135i using N54 engine uses a different manual transmission gearbox to the 1M. Only the N55 135i's uses the same manual transmission gearbox as the 1M. This is highlighted on both realoem & redline's application guide website.

N54:GS6-53BZ/DZ
N55/1M:GS6-45BZ

Last edited by OneM; 11-06-2012 at 06:37 AM.
OneM is offline  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 08:31 AM   #20
Dackelone
1
Moderator
 
Dackelone's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i Silber mit/Rot 6MT N54
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

Posts: 16,533
iTrader: (1)

Here is what my old trans fluid looked like...

old MTF-LT-4, new MTF-LT-4, new Redline ATF-D4
Name:  IMG_5882.jpg
Views: 2800
Size:  132.2 KB

Original thread...
DIY: manual transmission and diff fluid change
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...MTF-LT4&page=5


When I switched from LT-4 to Redline ATF-D4 I noticed my manual trans shifted much smoother. Easpcially on a cold 1st to 2nd shift. Not totally perfect... but MUCH better than with the OE MT-4 bmw fluid.

The Best oil is Fresh oil!!!
Dackelone is offline   Germany
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 10:48 AM   #21
flzrider
0
Captain
 
Drives: AW 1M
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Miami, FL

Posts: 663
iTrader: (1)

I'm curious about the LT-6 that nachob mentioned. Anyone have any info on this?
__________________
flzrider is offline  
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
      11-06-2012, 11:05 AM   #22
Dackelone
1
Moderator
 
Dackelone's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i Silber mit/Rot 6MT N54
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

Posts: 16,533
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flzrider View Post
I'm curious about the LT-6 that nachob mentioned. Anyone have any info on this?
It doesn't surprise me that bmw has gone to an LT-6 fluid. When I changed my trans fluid the LT-3 had been replaced by LT-4.

One thing to remember is ALL of the bmw LT fluids are regular dino oil. NOT an synthetic!!


I would still recommend using Redline ATF-D6 over the BMW LT fluids. And don't forget to change your diff oil while your at it!!
Dackelone is offline   Germany
Appreciate 0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST