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      07-30-2014, 08:39 AM   #1
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EPS and emissions?

In Jeremy Clarkson's recent review of the new M4, he mentioned about how many things in cars are having to change to meet European emissions standards, including the now (unfortunately) ubiquitous Electric Power Steering.

Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but how on God's green earth does EPS help emissions over non-electric systems?
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      07-30-2014, 09:06 AM   #2
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http://www.caranddriver.com/features...n-test-feature

"Makers are moving aggressively to EPS because eliminating an engine-driven hydraulic pump increases gas mileage by about 1 mpg."
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      07-30-2014, 11:59 AM   #3
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Porsche gained 1-2 mph by switching to EPS btw.

From Car and Driver, this is how hydraulic steering works:
"Applying pressurized hydraulic fluid to one side of the piston while allowing fluid to return from the other side to a reservoir provides steering assistance."

The engine is constantly driving the hydraulic pump so if you remove this system the engine doesn't need to work as hard, thus saving gas and improving the other factors.
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      07-30-2014, 01:17 PM   #4
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Yeah, I get it. Wasn't thinking about the parasitic power drain on the engine.
But I'd rather give up my 1-2 mph and 1 mpg and keep conventional steering.

But then again, I'm not in charge...
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      07-30-2014, 01:21 PM   #5
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I recently drove an x1 w eps and it was near end of the world fear in terms of bad steering.

luckily the new m3 is much much better and is also EPS. Proper Calibration of these systems is paramount.
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      07-30-2014, 08:30 PM   #6
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I think EPS is getting an undeserved bad reputation.
It's becoming increasingly common and certainly has been poorly implemented in many cars. But, I've driven both an R56 Mini and Honda S2000 which both sport this technology and the steering response/handling is top notch.
Judge the particular car, not the particular technology.

To the OPs concern, I think the real culprit to neutered handling in many late model bimmers is a combination of adaptive steering and an increasing trend of putting "comfort" over driver feedback.
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      Yesterday, 09:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bean View Post
I think EPS is getting an undeserved bad reputation.
It's becoming increasingly common and certainly has been poorly implemented in many cars. But, I've driven both an R56 Mini and Honda S2000 which both sport this technology and the steering response/handling is top notch.
Judge the particular car, not the particular technology.

To the OPs concern, I think the real culprit to neutered handling in many late model bimmers is a combination of adaptive steering and an increasing trend of putting "comfort" over driver feedback.
+1
That's because a decreasing number of drivers really appreciate a good driving experience. Unfortunately, BMW has to cater to the market reality that most of their customers are looking for an upscale ride or a status symbol rather than "The Ultimate Driving Experience".
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      Yesterday, 10:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I recently drove an x1 w eps and it was near end of the world fear in terms of bad steering.

luckily the new m3 is much much better and is also EPS. Proper Calibration of these systems is paramount.
Errr... the X1 is the LAST BMW vehicle to use hydraulic steering! The reason is bc the EPS unit doesn't fit on the X1 chasis, so the next X1 will have EPS.

A lot of people have been buying the X1 bc it still has hydraulic steering!
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      Yesterday, 11:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Errr... the X1 is the LAST BMW vehicle to use hydraulic steering! The reason is bc the EPS unit doesn't fit on the X1 chasis, so the next X1 will have EPS.

A lot of people have been buying the X1 bc it still has hydraulic steering!
Partially... it has the false electric assist and it is very obvious. There is no confidence in turns as the amount of weight / feedback in the wheels varies greatly.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle..._steering.html

In the full hydraulic rack; it is 100% predictable as the feel always remains the same. That's not to say you can't make a good electric rack but I certainly haven't drive a good BMW made one.
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      Yesterday, 11:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Partially... it has the false electric assist and it is very obvious. There is no confidence in turns as the amount of weight / feedback in the wheels varies greatly.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle..._steering.html

In the full hydraulic rack; it is 100% predictable as the feel always remains the same. That's not to say you can't make a good electric rack but I certainly haven't drive a good BMW made one.
I think it depends on which X1 we are talking about.

xDrives will still have hydraulic power steering, sDrives have EPS system.
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      Yesterday, 12:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k View Post
Yeah, I get it. Wasn't thinking about the parasitic power drain on the engine.
But I'd rather give up my 1-2 mph and 1 mpg and keep conventional steering.

But then again, I'm not in charge...
yea same here. it doesn't matter the way I drive anyways
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      Yesterday, 12:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Partially... it has the false electric assist and it is very obvious. There is no confidence in turns as the amount of weight / feedback in the wheels varies greatly.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle..._steering.html

In the full hydraulic rack; it is 100% predictable as the feel always remains the same. That's not to say you can't make a good electric rack but I certainly haven't drive a good BMW made one.
I think it depends on which X1 we are talking about.

xDrives will still have hydraulic power steering, sDrives have EPS system.
I had an xdrive loaner which in theory should have hydraulic but it didn't feel like it one bit... it also had the sport pack so I dont know what they did. It felt like it had active steering or something like that.
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      Yesterday, 12:34 PM   #13
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One of the main reasons I got my E82. I've heard the EPS in the new F80 M3 isn't bad, but I've tried it in an F10 535i and a F30 335i and it was utter garbage.
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      Yesterday, 12:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
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yea same here. it doesn't matter the way I drive anyways
Yeah. Supposedly our car gets up to 28 MPG. HA! With who driving?
I think for my first year the average MPG never broke above 19.5!
If you're going to own a car that performs like a 1er, I sure hope you drive it like it was meant to be driven! Otherwise keep the miles off of it and sell it to one of us who will truly appreciate the beast!
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      Yesterday, 05:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisar82 View Post
yea same here. it doesn't matter the way I drive anyways
Yeah. Supposedly our car gets up to 28 MPG. HA! With who driving?
I think for my first year the average MPG never broke above 19.5!
If you're going to own a car that performs like a 1er, I sure hope you drive it like it was meant to be driven! Otherwise keep the miles off of it and sell it to one of us who will truly appreciate the beast!
I have JB4 stage 2 and drive it like I stole it most of the time and still get 23mpg.
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      Yesterday, 07:59 PM   #16
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I have JB4 stage 2 and drive it like I stole it most of the time and still get 23mpg.
Hmm. Not me. But I drive it like a raped ape 100% of the time.
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      Yesterday, 10:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavpilot2k View Post
Yeah. Supposedly our car gets up to 28 MPG. HA! With who driving?
I think for my first year the average MPG never broke above 19.5!
If you're going to own a car that performs like a 1er, I sure hope you drive it like it was meant to be driven! Otherwise keep the miles off of it and sell it to one of us who will truly appreciate the beast!
I've taken numerous 3hr highway trips. Sometimes when no one's around I'll slow down to 40 and gun it, hit speeds well over 80, stop at rest stops. Would you know I get 28-29 mpg consistently doing that? It's unreal. The trick is to keep the RPMs under 3k the MAJORITY of the time and you should have no problem getting that mileage. With A/C on it's not quite as good of course
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      Yesterday, 10:52 PM   #18
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Yeah, I have a tendency to drive 100 mph in third gear (it'll do 110).
I'm sure highway speed road trip improves mileage, but most of my commute is shitty Boston traffic and urban driving.

And BTW, doing 100 MPH in third gear in the tunnels under Boston is AWESOME!!!!
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      Yesterday, 11:26 PM   #19
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Not that I am encouraging illegal or immoral behavior...
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