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      08-31-2017, 11:37 PM   #1
james1986_135i
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Aftermarket oil cooler options N54

Well after extensive research it seems there are limited options:

ER produce a well known product
Advan will provide kits upon request
EDIT: I know there is also Dinan but that is overpriced from what I can see....

And then there is Mosselman Turbo (link below).

I have never heard of them and can find no reviews. Does anyone know about this product?

It looks pretty slick and like good quality, I like that it includes the thermostat modification as part of the package.

https://www.mosselmanturbo.com/shop/msl-oil-cooler-kit/

I am strongly considering purchasing and installing with a review.

All feedback is welcome!
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      09-01-2017, 12:08 AM   #2
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You don't actually need an aftermarket oil cooler unless you seriously track you car. Your oil needs to be hot to burn off the contaminants.

AD Engineering thermostat change is all you need. I have gone back to a standard oil cooler for my big single turbo in conjunction with the AD.

IMHO you are better off putting the money towards a seriously big intercooler like the JDT setup that Martymil and I have. If further cooling is needed, try a larger radiator etc. before oil cooling.

If you must have an oil cooler because you just want one (I get that) I have run the twin Advan set-up on my 425rwkw car and oil temps were too cool even with an external thermostat for everyday use. This is for the track enthusiast and does an awsome job..twin Setrabs in two different sizes (I had the slightly smaller option). They will do a single version as well, apparently. For everyday there is little engine temp at all in winter and short runs.

I have also had the Dinan which is the best fit for 135 and retaining part of the standard ducting. It even looks OEM and drops the oil temps to pretty much spot on with no thermostat change. Might be expensive but great fit and factory like finish. Wish I hadn't sold mine. Anything else will have you cutting or throwing out ducting, which I have done and replacing with new.
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      09-05-2017, 07:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i2 View Post
You don't actually need an oil cooler unless you seriously track you car. Your oil needs to be hot to burn off the contaminants.

AD Engineering thermostat change is all you need. I have gone back to a standard oil cooler for my big single turbo in conjunction with the AD.

IMHO you are better off putting the money towards a seriously big intercooler like the JDT setup that Martymil and I have. If further cooling is needed, try a larger radiator etc. before oil cooling.

If you must have an oil cooler because you just want one (I get that) I have run the twin Advan set-up on my 425rwkw car and oil temps were too cool even with an external thermostat for everyday use. This is for the track enthusiast and does an awsome job..twin Setrabs in two different sizes (I had the slightly smaller option). They will do a single version as well, apparently. For everyday there is little engine temp at all in winter and short runs.

I have also had the Dinan which is the best fit for 135 and retaining part of the standard ducting. It even looks OEM and drops the oil temps to pretty much spot on with no thermostat change. Might be expensive but great fit and factory like finish. Wish I hadn't sold mine. Anything else will have you cutting or throwing out ducting, which I have done and replacing with new.
What temps were you getting with the advan twin cooler setup on the street and track?

On most spirited mountain driving I've done oil temps were 120 ish.

Regular routine oil changes is a more cost effective solution IMO than a $2000 oil cooler setup But yeah totally understand why guys want to go for one for a piece of mind, as I've recently bought a CSF rad
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      09-05-2017, 08:23 PM   #4
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Highest oil temps I have seen with Advan TOC was 105 in the middle of summer on a long lunatic fang through the twisties going into Tenterfield in middle of a hot stinker. Every day city drives took a good 20min+ to get to 90-100. Thermostat may have been on the gong for winter as impossible to get to 90-100. No track for my car.

OC on a street car, an OC that doesn't allow the oil to get to temp will do more harm than good to your engine. Peace of mind is controlling your intake temps and water temps if you have a problem.

If I had a manual daily, the 1M / PPK extra water radiator on the passenger side would be an upgrade I would do before changing the main radiator.
And a kick arse intercooler long before radiators or OC's.
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      09-05-2017, 11:07 PM   #5
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The ppk radiator is tiny and you have to buy a whole bunch of extra plumbing which is actually pretty untidy and makes removing the fan a real pain for servicing. CSF radiator is cheaper than a ppk rad setup and would be much more effective.
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      09-06-2017, 02:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl View Post
The ppk radiator is tiny and you have to buy a whole bunch of extra plumbing which is actually pretty untidy and makes removing the fan a real pain for servicing. CSF radiator is cheaper than a ppk rad setup and would be much more effective.
Disagree. Far from untidy and no issues with fan removal here. Nice neat solution to keeping it all OEM. Cost less than a CSF too.
I have fitted one to my 135 although not for water cooling.
And you could argue that water temps are not the issue here as much as oil temps aren't for our cars.

Made the point earlier...save your money all round, forget the rads, OC's, fit an AD thermostat and save for the biggest intercooler you can find....simples.
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      09-06-2017, 02:53 AM   #7
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The AD pressure valve is not a thermostat. Oil temps of 105 are excellent, and all you need is >100*C to remove the water fraction. 'Contaminants' are not 'burned off' taking it to 120-130, all you gain from temps that high is a hotter cylinder head for greater fuel efficiency and I don't think many truly care for that.

If your additional coolers and thermostat were extending your warmup period that would seem to indicate the oil was flowing through the coolers too early. They should not be brought into the circuit until the target temp is reached (say 105), and if done right should have zero effect on warmup time.
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      09-06-2017, 02:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i2 View Post
Disagree. Far from untidy and no issues with fan removal here. Nice neat solution to keeping it all OEM. Cost less than a CSF too.
I have fitted one to my 135 although not for water cooling.
And you could argue that water temps are not the issue here as much as oil temps aren't for our cars.

Made the point earlier...save your money all round, forget the rads, OC's, fit an AD thermostat and save for the biggest intercooler you can find....simples.
There's all that plumbing attached to the back of the fan which makes an already tight fit even worse.

How does the CSF cost less? I just ordered a brand one off ebay for $650aud delivered from Top gear solutions. Once you buy all the PPK hoses radiator and airduct there is no way in hell its cheaper.

Yep sure i'll ignore my 140 degree oil temps, 110 water temps on the track and follow your advice and just stick to a thermostat blockoff and buy an intercooler.
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      09-06-2017, 03:41 AM   #9
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That's a good price on a CSF. 1k from BMR
My 1M rad setup was around your csf cost.
Not talking about track cars as predicated.
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      09-06-2017, 03:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T1M View Post
The AD pressure valve is not a thermostat. Oil temps of 105 are excellent, and all you need is >100*C to remove the water fraction. 'Contaminants' are not 'burned off' taking it to 120-130, all you gain from temps that high is a hotter cylinder head for greater fuel efficiency and I don't think many truly care for that.

If your additional coolers and thermostat were extending your warmup period that would seem to indicate the oil was flowing through the coolers too early. They should not be brought into the circuit until the target temp is reached (say 105), and if done right should have zero effect on warmup time.
Yep, already alluded to previous external thermostat being faulty.

Perhaps you can email Andy at AD and tell him its not an oil thermostat.
And while your at it inform BMW its not an oil thermostat too.
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      09-06-2017, 09:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i2 View Post
Yep, already alluded to previous external thermostat being faulty.
But you were still discouraging people from using extra oil coolers because oil temps were too low (105 - which is actually fine) and extended engine warmup time (you acknowledge the cause of this was that the thermostat was faulty/not setup correctly).

So in summary really there's no reason not to run additional coolers if they a) keep oil temps around 100+ degrees and b) have correctly setup external thermostats. Sure beats hitting 130-140+ degrees when pushing the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i2 View Post
Perhaps you can email Andy at AD and tell him its not an oil thermostat.
And while your at it inform BMW its not an oil thermostat too.
So if I posted a picture here of a zucchini and labeled it an oil thermostat would you believe me?

The OEM thermostat is indeed a thermostat. It has a wax element that melts at 110 degrees and then the valve slides open allowing oil to flow into the oil cooler.

Can you identify the part of the AD product that is temperature sensitive and opens the valve when a certain oil temperature is reached? You can't, because it doesn't have one. Because it's not a thermostat.
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      09-06-2017, 10:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i2 View Post
Yep, already alluded to previous external thermostat being faulty.

Perhaps you can email Andy at AD and tell him its not an oil thermostat.
And while your at it inform BMW its not an oil thermostat too.
Tim is indeed correct

The AD thermostat is just a piece of metal that diverts all oil flow to the cooler. You can even see this in the very picture you've posted lol. Its is not a thermostat with a wax element that actually regulates anything.
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      09-07-2017, 04:05 AM   #13
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Dear me. You lot are banging on like a bunch of children playing with split infinitives and your zucchini's...must be a Mexican thing. A thermostat doesn't need to contain expanding wax pellets to be called a thermostat. I care not what you want to call the AD Oil Thermostat or your 130-140 oil temps because you track your car, it has never been what I'm talking about from my first post...read!

You are preaching to the choir lads about upgrades. If you can afford mods, go for it.
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      09-07-2017, 06:56 AM   #14
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How these thermostat work is they use a thermostatic bimetal spring and as its heated it looses its tension.

In turn the oil pressure pushes the valve open allowing the oil to pass through as the springs cools it stiffens and it closes or restricts the oil flow.

Its a very very low cost and dependable old design but not very accurate but it works.

Here are some examples

https://www.alibaba.com/countrysearc...l-springs.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...2bd13975OYV1z8

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      09-07-2017, 07:07 AM   #15
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The backyard mechanics should check their Wiki at least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostat
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      09-07-2017, 10:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i2 View Post
Dear me. You lot are banging on like a bunch of children playing with split infinitives and your zucchini's...must be a Mexican thing. A thermostat doesn't need to contain expanding wax pellets to be called a thermostat. I care not what you want to call the AD Oil Thermostat or your 130-140 oil temps because you track your car, it has never been what I'm talking about from my first post...read!

You are preaching to the choir lads about upgrades. If you can afford mods, go for it.
Your advice so far has been poor.

You ran a dual oil cooler on a street car with faulty external thermostat and seemed to infer from the low temps it was an unsuitable street car solution. How about fixing the thermostat and trying again? Strike one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i2 View Post
Made the point earlier...save your money all round, forget the rads, OC's, fit an AD thermostat and save for the biggest intercooler you can find....simples.
This is an aftermarket oil cooler options thread. Not ignore high oil temps, buy a fake thermostat and an intercooler thread. Simples. Strike 2.

What an invaluable contribution you have made so far!

Quote:
Originally Posted by martymil View Post
How these thermostat work is they use a thermostatic bimetal spring and as its heated it looses its tension.

In turn the oil pressure pushes the valve open allowing the oil to pass through as the springs cools it stiffens and it closes or restricts the oil flow.

Its a very very low cost and dependable old design but not very accurate but it works.

Here are some examples

https://www.alibaba.com/countrysearc...l-springs.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...2bd13975OYV1z8
Not once on the ADE website for that product is bimetallic spring mentioned, nor is the thermostat operating/opening temperature stated. I and most others don't trust Andy Divers at all. I'm surprised anyone's even received any ADE products, the forums are lit up with complaints.

Like the other blockoff/bypass options available it might help keep oil temps lower on the street by allowing oil through the cooler all the time but when you drive spiritedly or on the track (not drag racing), the temps soar into the 130-140*C region and this is not good for the oils film strength - sliding surfaces suffer increased wear as a result.

The bottom line is the N54 doesn't have enough cooling system capacity to cope when pushing the cars. The huge delta from the standard thermostat's opening temp of 110*C and the peak oil temps folks are seeing (some so high the ECU goes into limp mode) is the critical thing here and it is due to a lack of heat exchange surface area. The 1M/PPK aux rad does little, it's about half the size of an A4 sheet and quite thin, as is the OEM oil cooler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i2 View Post
The backyard mechanics should check their Wiki at least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermostat
Backyard mechanics Does throwing that phrase around help validate paying someone to do all your work? Some people enjoy working on their own cars and garner a sense of achievement from it. Others pull out their credit cards and dump ludicrous sums into automatic 1ers. I know which category I fall into.


Back on topic james1986_135i - the mosselman oil cooler kit looks great. The 85*C thermostat would hopefully keep oil temps in the 90-95*C region on cruise which is near perfect. For $930 plus shipping a single looks like a good alternative to the dinan cooler. I wonder about fitment?
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      09-08-2017, 01:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T1M View Post


Not once on the ADE website for that product is bimetallic spring mentioned, nor is the thermostat operating/opening temperature stated. I and most others don't trust Andy Divers at all. I'm surprised anyone's even received any ADE products, the forums are lit up with complaints.

Like the other blockoff/bypass options available it might help keep oil temps lower on the street by allowing oil through the cooler all the time but when you drive spiritedly or on the track (not drag racing), the temps soar into the 130-140*C region and this is not good for the oils film strength - sliding surfaces suffer increased wear as a result.

The bottom line is the N54 doesn't have enough cooling system capacity to cope when pushing the cars. The huge delta from the standard thermostat's opening temp of 110*C and the peak oil temps folks are seeing (some so high the ECU goes into limp mode) is the critical thing here and it is due to a lack of heat exchange surface area. The 1M/PPK aux rad does little, it's about half the size of an A4 sheet and quite thin, as is the OEM oil cooler.
It doesn't take to be a brain surgon to work it out.

AD-E doesn't have to tell you how it works because it does, they say its a thermostat, if it wasn't they are open to a lawsuit for false advertising.

It keeps the temps steady at a 110c, if it wasn't a thermostat the temps would fluctuate like the bms one does.

I know what it is, so I told you

I worked with these types of valves in the past.

Now I know how most vendors feel and why andy doesn't answer phone calls

They must get hundreds of emails from customers just like this asking silly questions.

A thermostat control temps but will not help you with cooling.

Once you reach 110c the thermostat opens and will stay open until the temps drop, that's it.

Now you need a bigger heat exchanger, the bigger the better but in most cases unnecessary.

Todays oils can handle huge temps and 130 or 140 is nothing for todays synthetics.

Running less than 105c in most cases is bad for engine to because it doesn't reach the temp to boil of contaminants, moisture and the fuel from the oil.

The ad-e thermostat is more than ample for all street use and light track applications

If your racing you should be using racing oil and any racing oil should be changed after every meet so oil film
strength doesn't count because most of these oils can handle well north of 140c before they start to break down

Last edited by martymil; 09-08-2017 at 01:34 AM.
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      09-08-2017, 01:41 AM   #18
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T1M, you have inferred and judged without comprehension. We don't know what the OTP wants from his car.

Back on topic, and I'll say it again, and again for you. An aftermarket oil cooler is a waste of money for a street driven daily driver. If you track your car, put a fucking radiator or oil cooler on it, whatever. We all know temps will be an issue if this is your intention. Nothing like stating the obvious.

Forum jockey mechanics and filibustering at best on your part. Stand on the hustings and spread your postulate garb. It's a public forum after all and it looks like you have found your metaphorical home from which to prose and pose.

Unlike yourself, my ego doesn't require public validation or to vilify others with no more than deleterious, inept, spurious knowledge. Chuck in a few words about a waxstat or oilstat and you are the go to N54 guy.

Enjoy your car and opinions. I'll do the same. While your at it ask your mate to appreciate your post. More rep dude. Awesome.
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      09-08-2017, 01:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martymil View Post
It doesn't take to be a brain surgon to work it out.

AD-E doesn't have to tell you how it works because it does, they say its a thermostat, if it wasn't they are open to a lawsuit for false advertising.

It keeps the temps steady at a 110c, if it wasn't a thermostat the temps would fluctuate like the bms one does.

I know what it is, so I told you

I worked with these types of valves in the past.

Now I know how most vendors feel and why andy doesn't answer phone calls

They must get hundreds of emails from customers just like this asking silly questions.

A thermostat control temps but will not help you with cooling.

Once you reach 110c the thermostat opens and will stay open until the temps drop, that's it.

Now you need a bigger heat exchanger, the bigger the better but in most cases unnecessary.

Todays oils can handle huge temps and 130 or 140 is nothing for todays synthetics.

Running less than 105c in most cases is bad for engine to because it doesn't reach the temp to boil of contaminants, moisture and the fuel from the oil.

The ad-e thermostat is more than ample for all street use and light track applications

If your racing you should be using racing oil and any racing oil should be changed after every meet so oil film
strength doesn't count because most of these oils can handle well north of 140c before they start to break down
I'm not convinced at all that the AD eng has a thermostatic spring in it, its never mentioned on the site nor has there been any evidence to prove otherwise. I have one of these in my car and the warm up period is definitely a lot longer and the temperatures aren't what I'd call stable. You do get overall better street driving temperatures though, since there are no holes in the thermostat that bypass the cooler.

I have a spare AD engineering thermostat from the group buy a while back that someone never picked up, can easily test whether the spring changes with temperature, will be interesting to see the result
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      09-08-2017, 02:28 AM   #20
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You will have to test the spring in a spring compressor under temp, otherwise useless.

I've been running it now for over a year and it sits dead on 110c all the time

I also have the bms one which I took out as it ran to cold or to hot and fluctuated.

On they hwy the temp stays dead on 110c , if the spring is not what I said it is, it would fluctuate in temp because the oil pressure stays the same.
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      09-08-2017, 04:11 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martymil View Post
It doesn't take to be a brain surgon to work it out.

AD-E doesn't have to tell you how it works because it does, they say its a thermostat, if it wasn't they are open to a lawsuit for false advertising.

It keeps the temps steady at a 110c, if it wasn't a thermostat the temps would fluctuate like the bms one does.

I know what it is, so I told you

I worked with these types of valves in the past.

Now I know how most vendors feel and why andy doesn't answer phone calls

They must get hundreds of emails from customers just like this asking silly questions.

A thermostat control temps but will not help you with cooling.

Once you reach 110c the thermostat opens and will stay open until the temps drop, that's it.

Now you need a bigger heat exchanger, the bigger the better but in most cases unnecessary.

Todays oils can handle huge temps and 130 or 140 is nothing for todays synthetics.

Running less than 105c in most cases is bad for engine to because it doesn't reach the temp to boil of contaminants, moisture and the fuel from the oil.

The ad-e thermostat is more than ample for all street use and light track applications

If your racing you should be using racing oil and any racing oil should be changed after every meet so oil film
strength doesn't count because most of these oils can handle well north of 140c before they start to break down
So you're saying everyone should just blindly believe hearsay about how things work or even less than that, just assume they do because the marketing says so? Because Andy Divers, the paragon of ethical behaviour, does? You go right ahead, I'd rather ensure what I'm buying does what it says on the box first.

I do agree with you that modern synthetic oils don't "start to break down" until very high temperatures but that's not optimal for oil performance and longevity nor for longevity of seals, gaskets, plastics etc. Losing film strength at high oil temps due to viscosity reduction occurs, meaning the things it's supposed to be protecting will wear more rapidly. There is frictional efficiency and thus fuel economy to be gained running the oil that hot, but I'm not interested in squeezing the last word in economy out of a 3L turbo engine.

Rather than target high oil temps Honda run tight bearing clearances and often spec an SAE 20 oil - better for engine component reliability and lifespan, especially for seals and plastics. In electronics, a reduction of 10*C typically approximately doubles lifespan, so it's not just 'forum jockey mechanics', as your best mate might say.

Many cars run oil around 90*C, water still evaporates even at room temperature just at a slower rate, and many engines are still working well with excellent bearing wear etc targeting this temp.

Controlling oil temps and limiting them to 110-120*C max would also reduce the load on our water cooling system, reducing the strain on the already flaky water pumps. There are valid reasons to run a lower oil temp on a street car, it's not just about what the oil itself can tolerate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i2 View Post
T1M, you have inferred and judged without comprehension. We don't know what the OTP wants from his car.

Back on topic, and I'll say it again, and again for you. An aftermarket oil cooler is a waste of money for a street driven daily driver. If you track your car, put a fucking radiator or oil cooler on it, whatever. We all know temps will be an issue if this is your intention. Nothing like stating the obvious.

Forum jockey mechanics and filibustering at best on your part. Stand on the hustings and spread your postulate garb. It's a public forum after all and it looks like you have found your metaphorical home from which to prose and pose.

Unlike yourself, my ego doesn't require public validation or to vilify others with no more than deleterious, inept, spurious knowledge. Chuck in a few words about a waxstat or oilstat and you are the go to N54 guy.

Enjoy your car and opinions. I'll do the same. While your at it ask your mate to appreciate your post. More rep dude. Awesome.
Now you're just making a fool of yourself, and it sounds like you're about to burst a blood vessel in the process. You accuse me of public posturing and needing public validation, yet every post you make looks like you just spilled your alphabet spaghetti from your high-horse. Don't think I've ever seen the word filibustering used in an oil cooler discussion, but hey, you've just got to whip out the linguistic tape measure and start comparing the size of your lexicon, don't you?

As for this

"...you have inferred and judged without comprehension. We don't know what the OTP wants from his car."

Inferred and judged? Without comprehension? Hilarious. The OP was not in any way confusing, but since some folks simply have to over complicate things so I'll explain it for you. He wants an oil cooler, probably the mosselman one. He asked for input on it, or for other options we could provide. That's all.

Then this

"Back on topic, and I'll say it again, and again for you. An aftermarket oil cooler is a waste of money for a street driven daily driver."

Run your enormous intercooler and enjoy your high oil temps. There are valid reasons why one may wish to target a lower than factory oil temp, and for many cars 110*C is already quite hot. You do not wish to do so and that's your prerogative.

The last part about assuming I'd asked vtl to rep my post was funny, arrogant and for the record untrue. The funny part is you follow Marty around on just about every BMW forum like a shadow. He posts a photo, a time slip, perhaps reviews a fuel pump or an intake manifold and there you are with your sweet words of unwavering support and admiration. It's honestly adorable, and the literal definition of hypocrisy.
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      09-08-2017, 04:22 AM   #22
135i2
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She's back, Judy (that's Judge Judy), only self appointed.

Yada, Yada (there's irony there, too).

There's only one blood vessel being played with here...you have a firm hold. But not a grasp on much at all.

Oh, and sweetie, I do have a large lexicon.
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Last edited by 135i2; 09-08-2017 at 04:49 AM.
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