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      02-11-2013, 07:09 PM   #1
blutattoo
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Update Brembo BBK

I've had the Brembo's for about 1000 miles now with two track days under my belt.

The good.

Initial bite is still better than stock, but it's more of a drama free stop rather than a throw you forward kind of stop that a true racing pad would have. Braking points on the track have shortened considerably and I'm able to carry more speed into corners (2-10 mph). Getting use to the new braking points is the hard part because your brain is telling you that you're gonna blow through the corner, but it ends up stopping. Once I learn them better I'm sure my confidence will go up. The brakes also exhibit zero fade even after repeated threshold braking stops from 120+ mph.

Noise with the included Ferodo's is none existent although brake dust seems the same as stock pads which is a lot.

Street driving is where these shine. The car just stops. Period. No drama, no dive, improved pedal feel. Great for street, but then again it should be for the price.

The Bad.

As much as it pains me to say this, I was expecting a more durable pad to be included. I originally thought they were Ferodo ds2500, but come to find out they are a Ferodo designed pad specifically for the Brembo mono bloc 6 pot caliper and it's properties are the same as the DS1100. This is fine for the rears, but the front pads are 85% gone after two track days and I can feel a strong vibration when braking now. Talk about a big bummer. For 6K I shouldn't be feeding it pads this soon. Good news Ferodo does have an application for these brakes in the DS2500 so I have those on the way, but damn that sucks.

The second bad thing is that with the dtc set to the "sport/track" setting the rear end brakes too much now during aggressive canyon carving. It is almost like their is an anchor there and power coming out of the turn is non linear unlike before with the stock setup which was barely noticeable to me. I could even track the car in that mode and I wouldn't lose any discernible time with the stock setup. You cannot do that with the rear bbk. Although the good news is the rear brakes, specifically the pads, still appear to be new.

Would I recommend these? Yes and no. If you are looking for a track application to shave those last few seconds off and you can get them at a substantial discount and you swap the pads to the DS2500/DS3000 or HTC70 or CL RC6 then yes. If you cannot say yes to all that, then I wouldn't recommend them. The price point is simply to high and the returns are just not great enough.

Next time at the track I'm going to be worrying that every time I step on the brakes it's gonna cost me $300 bucks for a set of pads. That in turn will make me slower, which seems to be defeating the purpose.
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      02-11-2013, 07:16 PM   #2
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Thumbs up

Wow, thank you for a useful, honest review!

I'm very convinced that most people shelling out that kind of money on anything (not even car related) are writing praising reviews no matter what. It's rare to read a critical and well reasoned review like yours.

Thanks!

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      02-11-2013, 08:01 PM   #3
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Which specific kit did you get?
I think you are justified in expecting a more durable pad.

Good insight here, especially about the rear brakes being too strong.
I have a front only Stoptech ST-60 kit on the way so hopefully I don't experience this.
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      02-11-2013, 08:04 PM   #4
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Nice review. I hadn't really considered a BBK due to price and whether or not I would really need them. I know when racing people will throw a lot of money to shave seconds, but for regular track days driver improvement is the order...throwing money at it is mearly compensating. That said, if they improve safety and it's trully an issue, totally different story.

I was however glad to see that you thought the Ferodos were good...just got a set of 2500s and have new rotors coming as my current ones are trashed.

First track day is coming...March 8th & 9th...can't wait!
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      02-11-2013, 08:38 PM   #5
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If you buy a BBK, I don't see how expecting a Track pad is reasonable. On the street the pads you received should be more than reasonable. If you want to track, you should buy real track pads, PFC, Carbotech, Hawk DTC-70/60, Pagids and so on.

I can understand the frustration if it was streets and they were worn out after a couple of months. But tracking the car, you really should be looking for track specific pads, and those unless you buy Endurance compound, will not last that long either.

I'll probably take the front only route when I decide on a BBK, not entirely sure the rears are necessary. As of right now, two track days on new XP12 Carbotech on the rears, and they are untouched it seems, the fronts however were gone after 3 days. Using the RP2 endurance compound to see if it last longer.

But like I said, look into a Pagid RS29 or PFC 08, those pads last a long time and are true proven track pads.
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Last edited by yandy; 02-11-2013 at 08:47 PM.
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      02-11-2013, 09:20 PM   #6
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well look at the plus side, at least you got the expensive hardware covered upfront, now you need to invest in better compound for track use. also budget for 2-3 sets of pads, 2 sets of tires, oil change, brake fluid flush, coolant flush, diff flush and countless other wear and tear items like blown shocks that will pop up along the way in a season
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      02-11-2013, 10:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yandy View Post
If you buy a BBK, I don't see how expecting a Track pad is reasonable. On the street the pads you received should be more than reasonable. If you want to track, you should buy real track pads, PFC, Carbotech, Hawk DTC-70/60, Pagids and so on.

I can understand the frustration if it was streets and they were worn out after a couple of months. But tracking the car, you really should be looking for track specific pads, and those unless you buy Endurance compound, will not last that long either.

I'll probably take the front only route when I decide on a BBK, not entirely sure the rears are necessary. As of right now, two track days on new XP12 Carbotech on the rears, and they are untouched it seems, the fronts however were gone after 3 days. Using the RP2 endurance compound to see if it last longer.

But like I said, look into a Pagid RS29 or PFC 08, those pads last a long time and are true proven track pads.
Yeah it's true I shouldn't expect miracles with pads, but my stock pads running on stock calipers lasted 10 track days with 9k miles of spirited driving in between. These are grossly more expensive, perform slightly better, last 1/8th of the time. Talk about the law of diminishing returns.

I am going to get the DS2500 for now since I've had really good experiences with them before and I'm gonna order some dedicated track pads once I figure out what is least likely to chew up the rotors. Part of the issue with the Brembo's is they have really only three manufacturers that sell pads for that caliper. Hawk, Ferodo, and CL. The Hawk's are the least expensive at like 360-370 for the pair and they go up from there. If you believe the marketing stuff the track pads from CL are suppose to last much, much longer, but I'd rather try and find someone who has used them before I shell out 5 bills for a pair of pads.

I'm hopeful that the pads will turn them from good to great. I guess we shall see.
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      02-11-2013, 10:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutattoo View Post
Yeah it's true I shouldn't expect miracles with pads, but my stock pads running on stock calipers lasted 10 track days with 9k miles of spirited driving in between. These are grossly more expensive, perform slightly better, last 1/8th of the time. Talk about the law of diminishing returns.

I am going to get the DS2500 for now since I've had really good experiences with them before and I'm gonna order some dedicated track pads once I figure out what is least likely to chew up the rotors. Part of the issue with the Brembo's is they have really only three manufacturers that sell pads for that caliper. Hawk, Ferodo, and CL. The Hawk's are the least expensive at like 360-370 for the pair and they go up from there. If you believe the marketing stuff the track pads from CL are suppose to last much, much longer, but I'd rather try and find someone who has used them before I shell out 5 bills for a pair of pads.

I'm hopeful that the pads will turn them from good to great. I guess we shall see.
Hawks are cheaper, but are really harsh on rotors. I would pick replacing pads over rotors any day. Did use the DTC-70/60 pads once, will probably never use them again. They were great for one day. Don't get me wrong, there was plenty of pad left, but there were vibrations, fade, and really hard to modulate after that day.

edit: question answered below
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      02-11-2013, 10:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
Which specific kit did you get?
I think you are justified in expecting a more durable pad.

Good insight here, especially about the rear brakes being too strong.
I have a front only Stoptech ST-60 kit on the way so hopefully I don't experience this.
The Stoptech ST-60 pads are direct competitors for the Ferodo DS2500's, so they are like a hybrid street/track pad. Very good choice from what I hear.

I got the Brembo GT 355mm kit for the front and 345mm in the rear.
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      02-11-2013, 10:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yandy View Post
Hawks are cheaper, but are really harsh on rotors. I would pick replacing pads over rotors any day. Did use the DTC-70/60 pads once, will probably never use them again. They were great for one day. Don't get me wrong, there was plenty of pad left, but there were vibrations, fade, and really hard to modulate after that day.

edit: question answered below
I asked Harold at HPAuto and he doesn't know of any others either. I'll have to look at the other manufacturers website, because the Brembo isn't much help.

Thanks for the heads up on the Hawks. If I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it right so I'll get the ones that people have the most positive experience with.
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      02-11-2013, 11:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutattoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by yandy View Post
Hawks are cheaper, but are really harsh on rotors. I would pick replacing pads over rotors any day. Did use the DTC-70/60 pads once, will probably never use them again. They were great for one day. Don't get me wrong, there was plenty of pad left, but there were vibrations, fade, and really hard to modulate after that day.

edit: question answered below
I asked Harold at HPAuto and he doesn't know of any others either. I'll have to look at the other manufacturers website, because the Brembo isn't much help.

Thanks for the heads up on the Hawks. If I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it right so I'll get the ones that people have the most positive experience with.
Seems odd that you'll be so limited with such an investment contact the individual pad manufactures, I'm sure you'll have more options.
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      02-11-2013, 11:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutattoo View Post
I asked Harold at HPAuto and he doesn't know of any others either. I'll have to look at the other manufacturers website, because the Brembo isn't much help.

Thanks for the heads up on the Hawks. If I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it right so I'll get the ones that people have the most positive experience with.
There are plenty of full race pads for the Monobloc 6, but not much in terms of a clubsport or street/track pads.
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      02-12-2013, 06:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yandy View Post
Hawks are cheaper, but are really harsh on rotors. I would pick replacing pads over rotors any day. Did use the DTC-70/60 pads once, will probably never use them again. They were great for one day. Don't get me wrong, there was plenty of pad left, but there were vibrations, fade, and really hard to modulate after that day.

edit: question answered below
The old Hawk pads like Blues were harsh on rotors. I don't think the DTC series is unless you use them for daily driving. I have very little wear on my rotors after 16 track days. Also, I think it's odd that you got vibrations and fading problems. I've never heard that before. Anyway, it's never happened to me.
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      02-12-2013, 06:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
Which specific kit did you get?
I think you are justified in expecting a more durable pad.

Good insight here, especially about the rear brakes being too strong.
I have a front only Stoptech ST-60 kit on the way so hopefully I don't experience this.
ST-60 comes with Stoptech Street Performance pads. It's not a track pad either. I like them a little better than OEM pads. I didn't leave them on long enough to see if how much dust they produce, but someone said they dust less than OEM but more than Cool Carbon.
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      02-12-2013, 08:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
The old Hawk pads like Blues were harsh on rotors. I don't think the DTC series is unless you use them for daily driving. I have very little wear on my rotors after 16 track days. Also, I think it's odd that you got vibrations and fading problems. I've never heard that before. Anyway, it's never happened to me.
Maybe mine were a one off? I did not have a good experience with them at all. But you're not the only one who likes them, so may be worth a try for him.
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      02-12-2013, 09:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blutattoo View Post
Yeah it's true I shouldn't expect miracles with pads, but my stock pads running on stock calipers lasted 10 track days with 9k miles of spirited driving in between. These are grossly more expensive, perform slightly better, last 1/8th of the time. Talk about the law of diminishing returns.
I don't know how you were able to get that much life out of the stock pads. Once I picked up speed I went through a brand new set in only a day. I think you pads disappearing so fast now may be a side effect of you picking up speed and braking more aggressively. No street pad will last more than a day or two on a track event w/o slowing down. Even the Ferodo 2500's won't last too long for serious track use. Like yandy said, if you going to be tracking, get some dedicated track pads.
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      02-12-2013, 04:04 PM   #17
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I don't know how you were able to get that much life out of the stock pads. Once I picked up speed I went through a brand new set in only a day. I think you pads disappearing so fast now may be a side effect of you picking up speed and braking more aggressively. No street pad will last more than a day or two on a track event w/o slowing down. Even the Ferodo 2500's won't last too long for serious track use. Like yandy said, if you going to be tracking, get some dedicated track pads.
It may be a combination of the fact I was a bit slower and I use to run with the DTC partially on. That may have helped spread the wear over both front and rear pads since both where finished at the same time. Now I run without DTC on at all, so the fronts take the majority of the abuse as intended. I guess it'll depend on the track, but the track I spend the majority of my time on isn't that bad on pads. Really only two turns with threshold braking so as long as I stay away from Laguna I should be good for more than two days I think. I'm not going back to Laguna until May so I have some time to research track pads.

You run mainly at VIR right? I've heard that track is crazy fast with some really difficult braking. I met a guy with a carbon pkg Z06 who said the same thing about VIR that he'd destroy pads in a day or two there.
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