BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-04-2012, 12:43 PM   #1
amarti23
Alexis
amarti23's Avatar
United_States
4
Rep
28
Posts

 
Drives: 135i convertible
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW 135  [0.00]
Question "Salt proofing" the undercarriage

Does anyone know if there is some kind of seal I can have sprayed on my undercarriage to protect against salt? It's my first winter out here and I'm told they use salt and sand here in CO.

I wondered if there is an easier way to protect it from rust other then constantly spraying off with water?

Thanks guys!!!
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 12:52 PM   #2
135Pats
Turbo's Here
135Pats's Avatar
United_States
61
Rep
5,691
Posts

 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (2)

Very interested to see what people say...DC isn't exatly snow central, but the powers that be are VERY quick to throw down the salt, people around here freak out when the snow accumulates.
__________________
E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Meisterschaft Race/Berk Resonated/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/FFTEC LPFP/HFS-4 DO Stainless Lines/BMS Thermostat Delete/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/BMS OCC/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 01:00 PM   #3
euro2fast4u
Private
1
Rep
91
Posts

 
Drives: signle turbo e30
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: WVU/MD

iTrader: (0)

Rust needs 3 things, air, water, and steel. When you add salt you increase the flow of electrons that increase the speed of the deterioration of the metal. So how do you prevent that. Wash the salt off regularly, dry the bottom of your car, because you cant remove air , and then inspect monthly that none of your undercoating has been scratched off or chipped. As long as the under coating is intact and 99% of the time that's the issue. You wont have to worry about rust.
__________________
My boosted e30 vs boss 302 new video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdgxMMIOgk4
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 01:04 PM   #4
KingOfJericho
Major General
KingOfJericho's Avatar
United_States
96
Rep
5,198
Posts

 
Drives: Yes
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CT

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 135i Coupe  [2.63]
Yeah but I'm sayin' that TrueCoat, you don't get it - you get oxidation problems. It'll cost ya a heck of alot more than $500...
__________________
The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Bimmerpost.

2010 S4 Current | 2010 BMW 135i Retired | 2006 Lotus Exige Retired
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 01:15 PM   #5
euro2fast4u
Private
1
Rep
91
Posts

 
Drives: signle turbo e30
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: WVU/MD

iTrader: (0)

huh?
__________________
My boosted e30 vs boss 302 new video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdgxMMIOgk4
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 02:02 PM   #6
mma600psi
Enlisted Member
3
Rep
34
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 128i convertible 6sp man
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Monmouth county NJ

iTrader: (0)

If you take a look under the car its very well protected with plastic guards underneath. I personally dont think its really required.
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 02:22 PM   #7
Stohlen
Major
18
Rep
1,228
Posts

 
Drives: AW 135i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waterford, Mi

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2008 BMW 135i  [2.83]
Colorado doesn't use salt. They use liquid deicer. Its blue, very similar to windshield washer fluid. Doesn't rust cars nearly as bad as salt.
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 03:11 PM   #8
MaDoNiOn
Lieutenant
MaDoNiOn's Avatar
South Africa
4
Rep
440
Posts

 
Drives: Polo Tdi 1.9
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: SouthAfrica

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
http://www.jigaloo.com/us/e_products_jigaloo.php

Maybe you car spray that underneath.
__________________
Wishlist...

Bmw 135i Convertable White...
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 03:50 PM   #9
JimD
Colonel
JimD's Avatar
44
Rep
2,844
Posts

 
Drives: 128i convertible
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lexington, SC

iTrader: (0)

In the 1980s and earlier, cars were made of materials that were pretty susceptible to rusting. I lived in Pittsburgh, PA then and it was a real problem. Since that time, materials have improved (different steel alloys) as has weatherproofing. I still get back to PA occasionally and the difference in the appearance of older vehicles is pretty striking. I bought my first new car in 1988. I got stuck paying for a rust preventitive treatment. It was already on the car and was the only car they had at the rock bottom price they advertised. So I reluctantly paid. Even then I was convinced it was a rip-off and the salesman pretty much agreed with me. You can hardly find these third parties that do this any more.

On the subject of my bimmer, I noticed waxy goo coming out of the doors shortly after delivery. My understanding is that this is BMW's rust proofing.

If you have the option of garaging your ride or washing the salt off periodically those are good practices but the expectation you should have is that your car not rust itself to death regardless.

Jim
__________________
128i Convertible, MT, Alpine White, Black Top, Taupe Leatherette, Walnut, Sport
Ordered 5/22/09, Completed 6/4/09, At Port 6/9/09, On the Georgia Highway 6/13/09, Ship Arrived Charleston 6/24/09 at 10pm, PCD 7/21/09
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 03:54 PM   #10
1speedbike
Colonel
1speedbike's Avatar
82
Rep
2,934
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 BMW 135i
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NJ, NYC, Baltimore

iTrader: (15)

How long are you planning on keeping the car?

I thought BMW gave us a 12 year / unlimited mile rust and corrosion warranty. If you keep the car 12 years, it's gonna need a lot more than a de-rusting.

Also, some of the rust-proofing crap they spray under there tends to degrade rubber.. so if they spray your bushings a bit too much... eh. I'm not worried about rust. I live in NJ, and just give the car a semi regular bath in the winter. My coilovers aren't rust proof (and neither are most springs and shocks) and they are very exposed, so I would just check on those every once in a while to see if there's any surface rust.
__________________

Year 1 of the 1
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 05:11 PM   #11
amarti23
Alexis
amarti23's Avatar
United_States
4
Rep
28
Posts

 
Drives: 135i convertible
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW 135  [0.00]
I plan on keeping it long term. I think you're absolutely right about the warranty about the rust. I do keep it in a garage at all times so hopefully that will help. I'll wash it off regularly this winter after it snows. Seems like global warming is really getting us this year. Had the top down this weekend here in CO cause the temp was 65*!! Thanks for the advice!
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 05:14 PM   #12
Jmanscotch
is a Texan
Jmanscotch's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
387
Posts

 
Drives: '09 135i - 6MT SOLD
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by euro2fast4u View Post
Rust needs 3 things, air, water, and steel. When you add salt you increase the flow of electrons that increase the speed of the deterioration of the metal. So how do you prevent that. Wash the salt off regularly, dry the bottom of your car, because you cant remove air , and then inspect monthly that none of your undercoating has been scratched off or chipped. As long as the under coating is intact and 99% of the time that's the issue. You wont have to worry about rust.
Correction; oxygen (air), "electrolyte" (aka, water or soil or anything conductive) and "exposed/bare" steel.

Cars don't rot in southern wet climates like they do in snow/salty ones. That proves that water alone isn't something to worry about...though we all know a dry climate (Cali/Arizona) will see even less rust than Texas/Louisiana/etc.

Either get an undercoating (line-x, or others suggested here) to prevent bare metal exposure of the cars undercarriage or wash the car regularly to rid it of the salt. Even when you wash it, salt/water/grime/dirt/sand/etc collect in those tough to reach nooks and will cause problems, so the undercoating is really going to be your best bet if you're worried.

That said, cars corrosion resistant coatings these days goes pretty far. Unless you're planning on keeping the car a dozen years then it's not going to have problems while you own it, unless the car has had damage and the corrosion protection coating wasn't properly reapplied.

Also, I saw a post about BMWs 12 year corrosion warranty; that for full on perforation only. For it to be honored, BMW requires you to participate in an every 2 year corrosion inspection at the dealership (which you pay for)...so that usually don't help anyone.

Jake
Corrosion Engineer
__________________
- Jake

Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 05:25 PM   #13
Stohlen
Major
18
Rep
1,228
Posts

 
Drives: AW 135i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Waterford, Mi

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2008 BMW 135i  [2.83]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmanscotch View Post
"electrolyte" (aka, water or soil or anything conductive) er
Water doesn't rust steel. The materials in the water do.
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2012, 05:35 PM   #14
Jmanscotch
is a Texan
Jmanscotch's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
387
Posts

 
Drives: '09 135i - 6MT SOLD
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (6)

Haha, no; the water is only a conductive path for ions to flow. The 'materials' in water can accelerate or slow down the process. Same situation with soil/grime. The salt accelerates the process.

I have a degree in Corrosion Technology so we'll assume I'm correct. I don't mean that in a 'cocky' way, it's just there is so much misinformation about corrosion/rust out there because few people specialize in the field so I try to help clear some of it up.
__________________
- Jake

Appreciate 0
      12-05-2012, 01:31 AM   #15
HeyMoe53
Lieutenant
8
Rep
579
Posts

 
Drives: '13 128 M-Spt. LeMans/Oyster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central PA

iTrader: (0)

I sometimes read a blog written by a gentleman named J.E. Robison, who specializes in servicing and restoring high-line vehicles (Rolls, Bentley, and such). His recent blog entry is basically an ad for a product named Waxoyl, which he applies in his shop.

The guy seems like he knows is way around high-end cars, so I thought it was worth mentioning. His comments about rodents chewing on wires are making me think about keeping comprehensive insurance on my 1, which is stored until 3/1
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2012, 02:39 AM   #16
Nkryptd1
Enlisted Member
0
Rep
37
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 Monaco Blue 135i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Denver Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stohlen View Post
Colorado doesn't use salt. They use liquid deicer. Its blue, very similar to windshield washer fluid. Doesn't rust cars nearly as bad as salt.
I second this comment as I've lived in CO all my life and know for a fact that we do not use salt here.
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2012, 09:00 AM   #17
amarti23
Alexis
amarti23's Avatar
United_States
4
Rep
28
Posts

 
Drives: 135i convertible
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver, CO

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW 135  [0.00]
Thanks! That's good to know!

Thanks everyone for all the advice! I'm a FL native and have never had to deal with snow like what I'm told Colorado gets. I'm just trying to keep my 1 looking and working great! Love this car!
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2012, 09:58 AM   #18
euro2fast4u
Private
1
Rep
91
Posts

 
Drives: signle turbo e30
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: WVU/MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmanscotch View Post
Haha, no; the water is only a conductive path for ions to flow. The 'materials' in water can accelerate or slow down the process. Same situation with soil/grime. The salt accelerates the process.

I have a degree in Corrosion Technology so we'll assume I'm correct. I don't mean that in a 'cocky' way, it's just there is so much misinformation about corrosion/rust out there because few people specialize in the field so I try to help clear some of it up.
Thanks Jake!

My i asked my father about electronic corrosion prevention as he used to also be a corrosion engineer. Thanks for the correction.
__________________
My boosted e30 vs boss 302 new video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdgxMMIOgk4
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #19
JTBMW1
Private
0
Rep
63
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 BMW 128i
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Naples, FL

iTrader: (0)

The parts that are most suseptible to rust are the underneath chassis components- frame, A Arms, suspension parts, painted steel brackets and drive shafts. I used to undercoat the painted steel components when I lived up north. I used only a high quality undercoating spray from 3M. The only time I did not use undercoating, I used a high quality black paint- like Rustoleum- for drive shafts. I would always primer bare steel parts as well. The fenders are all very well protected since they are galvanized on the inside and protected with paint and primer on the outside. With the undercoating and frequent undercarriage washes, my cars and trucks stayed rust free- no rust at all on the undercarriage. I also used to touch up any bare, chipped or rusted spots underneath every fall while the weather was still warm. I never once had any issue with rust through on a fender and I always kept my cars well waxed to protect the outside. The undercoating was a really messy job and I am glad at least for the time being that I live in FL and don't have to worry about road salt and undercoating.
Appreciate 0
      12-16-2012, 04:44 PM   #20
bkbeagle
Private
bkbeagle's Avatar
United_States
0
Rep
55
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 135i Convertible
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Denver, Colorado

iTrader: (0)

Consider a "touchless" carwash

Quote:
Originally Posted by amarti23 View Post
Does anyone know if there is some kind of seal I can have sprayed on my undercarriage to protect against salt? It's my first winter out here and I'm told they use salt and sand here in CO.

I wondered if there is an easier way to protect it from rust other then constantly spraying off with water?

Thanks guys!!!
You may want to consider a touchless carwash with the undercarriage spray option. We have lived in Denver 20+ years (we are transplants from the South) and have owned 6 Bimmers & 4 Jeeps in that time. Never have had an issue with corrosion of any sort and all I have done is been fairly diligent about getting "touchless" car washes with every other fuel fill during winter.

One other thing to note is that regardless of the snow we get in the Metro area, the humidity level is still pretty darn low. Corrosion, with respect to automobiles, is not a significant issue in this region.

Welcome to Colorado and good luck!
__________________
2013 135i Convertible Cashmere Grey, Savanna Beige
Premium Cold & Tech Package, DCT, Dinan S2

2013 335i Mojave Luxury, Dakota Venetian Beige
Cold/Premium Package, NAV, Driver Assist
Appreciate 0
      12-17-2014, 06:26 AM   #21
Musashi
New Member
0
Rep
12
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335i XDrive Laguna Seca
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ottawa

iTrader: (0)

Mandatory in the Snow Belt, unless you lease

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkbeagle View Post
You may want to consider a touchless carwash with the undercarriage spray option. We have lived in Denver 20+ years (we are transplants from the South) and have owned 6 Bimmers & 4 Jeeps in that time. Never have had an issue with corrosion of any sort and all I have done is been fairly diligent about getting "touchless" car washes with every other fuel fill during winter.

One other thing to note is that regardless of the snow we get in the Metro area, the humidity level is still pretty darn low. Corrosion, with respect to automobiles, is not a significant issue in this region.

Welcome to Colorado and good luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MZ View Post
Thanks, that was my impression as well, but they have been trying to get me to buy the package. I just assumed it was a cash grab.
Like most other members here, my initial view is that I do not need to do it on my new vehicle; it is a BMW right? I was wrong, and careful explanations made me understand what is going on.

Spent an hour hearing Patrick Farray (http://www.fari.ca) discuss rustproofing. he charges $ 350+tax for a 335i xDrive MSport due to the requirements of opening the aerodynamic cover. His work is BMW warranty compliant, and both Ottawa BMW dealerships recommend him for rustproofing.

NO HOLES. NO POLYMER OR RUBBER-STRETCHING COMPOUND.

Patrick has travelled to every major European and North American factory, including Munich, and is a luxury segment rustproofing expert. Patrick indeed agrees with everyone arguing that BMW's are built to last and do not rust- but that is for the frame, treated, and not the subframe and engine/sub chassis and lines. It is the linkages and lines that corrode. Interesting, it is not road grime that gets them wet (plastic preventing that) but the road moisture and evaporation, and bits of salt, sipping through and just enveloping the undercarriage. Or, it is this very undercarriage that is not protected (in the factory videos it is the bottom part on which the frame is dropped in the 'merging' sequence.

What does it mean? Patrick points out that the line rust, e.g. brake lines, are $1500+ for a line failure and, item by item, pass year 5, the bottom of the chassis would require normal, routine repairs worth thousands of $. Although, indeed, most metal components in BMWs are zinc coated, ZINC COATING IS ALWAYS RATED AT HUNDREDS/THOUSANDS OF HOURS of exposure and NO more. This does not mean that the car is to be driven thousands of hours, but just SIT thousands of hours while moist in this brew. At 24 hrs, that is 166 days or less than two Canadian winters in a moist wet damp environment...

What Patrick does is remove the plastic - a lengthy process, then systematically treats the body and bottom of doors with the no-drip formula. His base rate of $150 is so high precisely due to the time requirements for a BMW. He will spend as much as 5 hrs on any such car, Audi, BMW Porsche etc and his $350 rate will not increase just because he found problems.

Once done, the plastic aero film is reapplied, and the bottom of the car is fully protected. Most specialized garages working on out of warranty BMWs tell that Farray's work is good for at least 2-3 years per application- although he says yearly remains a good option. The street moisture, crazy fluoride based salts etc does not deposit itself on the treated surface, and, best of all, the aerodynamic film PREVENTS THE SHEAR REMOVAL OF THE APPLICATION.

It is the very aerodynamic film that, according to Patrick, accelerates the rusting on luxury vehicles as once the moisture is in, even on drier days, the very film prevents the undercarriage from being ventilated and dried out… think of an unvented, moist metro entrance, always smelling wet and moist even on cold days… A condensation box.

Perhaps this begs the question, why does BMW not do this at factory? Unsure, a question for them.

Patrick is almost compulsive about documenting each vehicle, and proving he leaves it in a better state than he found it. Best of all, he proves, without a doubt, that expensive vehicle components, whether Porsche or BMW or Audi, are corroded aggressively by these substances.

I, in my ignorance, used to think “Hey, if I get a Porshe and drive it in winter, no rust, as it is aluminum..” How about the carbon fibre i8?

Yes, in these two cars the body and frame will not rust, but the undercarriage will rot even worse "than Hondas" due to the film. Even on the beautiful i8 which one would normally not even dream of driving in winter as it is RWD, but will still retain water and muck from 3 seasons worth of water.

His argument? Over 10 years someone may spend 3000$ on the undercarriage rustproofing, but $3000 + thousands more in repairs (starting years 4-5). Patrick, who saw the assembly treatment lines in Europe, told me that, ideally, the manufacturer would bathe, dip and treat the entire vehicle but they cannot for two reasons; would seal the undercarriage to the point of inability to loosen components for repairs, and, quite frankly, it is way more cheaper and profitable for the manufacturer to ship parts- the very thing they make money on more than anything. Better yet- cadmium plating lasts times longer than Zinc, but it is toxic and major manufacturers do not use it.

Another bit: Patrick stated that every Germany-made car has a far superior finish than the North American/S African one. Yes, the whole 120mu bit and the USA factory clip, that job is inferior to the ‘Germany’ one.

Why are the frames so well treated? Practical perfectionism: nothing destroys the body aesthetics of a car like evident rust spots. Solution: make the frame almost bulletproof unless exposed to an accident.

Finally, for all those still not believing this, Patrick has an impressive database of Before and After pics, exposing how vehicles from X Z 911, Lambos, Bentleys etc just corrode in the seemingly most protected area, and why that accounts for a lot of the expensive leakages and repairs in the 5+ year mark.




M
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Musashi; 12-17-2014 at 06:33 AM.
Appreciate 0
      12-17-2014, 07:34 AM   #22
MightyMouseTech
Major
MightyMouseTech's Avatar
23
Rep
1,208
Posts

 
Drives: 13 135i 6MT LeMans Blue MSport
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ottawa, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Best thing to do is to wash the car often, and use the undercarriage spray. In the spring, take off the under panels and give it a good clean with a pressure washer.

I live in the region with the highest salt use in the world. Ugh. I don't believe in oil spray, rustproofing. Ruins the rubber seals, body sealer etc etc etc.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:09 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST