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      01-12-2013, 12:03 AM   #1
SteveAZ
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Track wheel and tire option.

I have a choice to make and want some confirmation as to what some of you with experiences think.

I am going to be doing some track days and on my car currently I have a staggered set of Apex Arc 8s (18x8.5 & 9.5) with PSS 255s and 225s.

I also have my stock wheels of 17x7s. I have somebody that wants to buy the tires (run craps) and I got to thinking about putting dedicated track tires on those wheels.

What do you guys think would be best...

The Arc 8 setup that is wider and lighter but PSS tires or the narrower and heavier wheels with slicks for track use only?

If the later, recommended moderately priced tires would be appreciated.
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      01-12-2013, 07:58 AM   #2
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wait your stock wheels are 17? never seen 17 stockers on our 135. I ride on my stockers for DD but I would use the arc 8 for track. like you said they're lighter and you can fit beefier rubber on them. if you gonna be tracking often I would make the arc's your dedicated track wheels
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      01-12-2013, 08:28 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelblue View Post
wait your stock wheels are 17? never seen 17 stockers on our 135. I ride on my stockers for DD but I would use the arc 8 for track. like you said they're lighter and you can fit beefier rubber on them. if you gonna be tracking often I would make the arc's your dedicated track wheels
what he said
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      01-12-2013, 12:40 PM   #4
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Ideally...I agree and that is the obvious answer. However, the Arc 8s won't be dedicated because I won't use them enough to justify them and frankly for daily driving and playing around on the road, the stockers don't cut it. I'm not that serious about track and need to keep that way.

The other thing I noticed was that tires are cheaper for the 17s...yes they are 17s, and I can do a set of NT01s for about $600.

The other "debatable" point is that the stockers would be a square set up....say 225/40/17 for less understeer.

So the question is...if you were going to the track and had 2 sets of wheels as I've described, which set would you put on?
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      01-12-2013, 01:24 PM   #5
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I'm not sure I'd want to pinch a 225 r-comp on a 7 inch wheel. That's +2 from the optimal wheel width. Couple that with the stickiness of the r-comp and you're asking a lot from the sidewall.
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      01-12-2013, 03:12 PM   #6
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Yeah, I kind of thought that may be the case and considered I may have to do 205s or 215s....I'm just going to sell them, stick with the 18s and use the money toward another set of tires. It's not my DD so if the PSS' don't cut it I'll put something stickier on for the next round.

Thanks
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      01-12-2013, 03:47 PM   #7
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If you're not the serious about tracking. Then, why not just throw a set of AD08s or similar on the ARC-8s and use them for dual purpose. You won't be doing it enough to really hurt the tires or wheels that badly.
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      01-12-2013, 04:32 PM   #8
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That's probably what I'll do. For now I'm only planning on a couple track days locally and Laguna Seca in May. Not planning on getting too serious about it but have a tendency to do so (I've raced in a lot of other sports)..that's why I considered the option of a cheap track specific setup before selling these. If I find the need I'll just look for another setup later.

Thanks
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      01-12-2013, 04:51 PM   #9
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I just don't think you'll find a good tire setup for 7" wheels. This car is pretty heavy and there just wont be enough rubber.

But, like you said, if you get serious later, there's always options.
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      01-13-2013, 10:31 AM   #10
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If you're just getting into tracking for the first time, I would just go out on the Arc-8's and PSS's for an event or two and see if you get some clarity. You might find you're satisfied with the performance and don't want the hassle of a second set (you'd have to change them at the track if they're R comps). I have been tracking on my stock 261's with 235f 255r for a few years now and am happy enough with the performance and cost savings to not get a second set. After all, the best mod is the guy behind the wheel. Get some experience first and then see if you want to make changes.
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      01-13-2013, 02:29 PM   #11
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I have a similar dilemma. But I decided to keep the oem msport wheels for daily, currently on conti dws, and keeping my arc-8s for track days running 255/35 square rs-3s.

I didn't want to add weight of the tpms on the arc-8s as you need to counter balance and just add weight to the wheels.
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      01-13-2013, 03:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syenisch View Post
If you're just getting into tracking for the first time, I would just go out on the Arc-8's and PSS's for an event or two and see if you get some clarity. You might find you're satisfied with the performance and don't want the hassle of a second set (you'd have to change them at the track if they're R comps). I have been tracking on my stock 261's with 235f 255r for a few years now and am happy enough with the performance and cost savings to not get a second set. After all, the best mod is the guy behind the wheel. Get some experience first and then see if you want to make changes.
You're right...I get all that. As I said I've done some racing in other sports and the biggest improvements came from knowledge and experience. However I've also had a few sport bikes and motards and once I started running gp tires I never ran anything else. So honestly I was thinking 215cm of sticky race compounds would be better than 255cm of a moderately grippy street tire.

I also don't live far from the track, so changing them at the house...no biggie.

Oh, and my Arc 8's don't have the TPMS sensors
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      01-13-2013, 07:44 PM   #13
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seems like you have your mind already made up but I must say I can't agree with your decision. a sticky 215 can't make up for contact patch plus the extra sidewall is not going to help especially since you don't have camber plates. there's a point on diminishing returns and with you going to 215's you have certainly passed it imo. you would be surprised how adequately sticky the PSS' are. personally I tracked my car on the RFT's when I first started and even the RFT's had very decent grip plus plenty of my track buddies tracked their cars on PSS for a year or two. I say go out and try out the PSS on the apex wheels first
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      01-13-2013, 08:50 PM   #14
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seems like you have your mind already made up but I must say I can't agree with your decision. a sticky 215 can't make up for contact patch plus the extra sidewall is not going to help especially since you don't have camber plates. there's a point on diminishing returns and with you going to 215's you have certainly passed it imo. you would be surprised how adequately sticky the PSS' are. personally I tracked my car on the RFT's when I first started and even the RFT's had very decent grip plus plenty of my track buddies tracked their cars on PSS for a year or two. I say go out and try out the PSS on the apex wheels first
No...I didn't word that very well, I've abandoned the 7" wheels and will run my current Apex setup and see how they do. I scored on the tires ($400 for all four with 9/32" tread left) so they'll have been pretty economical if I get a few track days out of them and a few thousand miles on the road. I was just suprised that the consensus was that the race compounds weren't the better choice despite the smaller size. Frankly it's much easier to run one set as was said...I'm all for it if there's nothing to be gained.

Thanks
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      01-31-2013, 06:06 PM   #15
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Its better to start off on street tires, learn the car and track thresholds and characteristics at lower speeds.
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      01-31-2013, 11:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
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That's probably what I'll do. For now I'm only planning on a couple track days locally and Laguna Seca in May. Not planning on getting too serious about it but have a tendency to do so (I've raced in a lot of other sports)..that's why I considered the option of a cheap track specific setup before selling these. If I find the need I'll just look for another setup later.

Thanks
The PSS's are damn good tires. I don't think you'd see a huge difference in switching to anything else besides r-comps. I liked them a lot and even though there are quicker street tires out there (RE-11's, R-S3's, etc.), for occasional track days what you have should be perfectly suitable. Plus they are really predictable on the track. As long as you don't auto-x them the wear should be comparable to others.

I'll be at Laguna Memorial Day weekend. When are you going?
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      02-01-2013, 03:00 AM   #17
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The PSS's are damn good tires. I don't think you'd see a huge difference in switching to anything else besides r-comps. I liked them a lot and even though there are quicker street tires out there (RE-11's, R-S3's, etc.), for occasional track days what you have should be perfectly suitable. Plus they are really predictable on the track. As long as you don't auto-x them the wear should be comparable to others.

I'll be at Laguna Memorial Day weekend. When are you going?
Thanks for the input...I had decided just stick with my current setup per everybodies suggestion.

Laguna Seca was supposed to be the 19 iirc....however, upon further investigation found that since it's not an hpde event I can't get insurance...anybody know of an alternative, if not I'll have to find a different event there.


I've been playing a bit on the PSS' no complaints thus far....brakes and suspension will be better upgrades for now.
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      02-01-2013, 02:11 PM   #18
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Are you talking about these guys http://www.ncracing.org/events.php

These guys have an event Sun the 19th as well as the 25th and 26th. This is who I run with and it's definitely an HPDE. No timing, passing only in designated zones (except open/race groups), instructors available, etc. If you can't get insurance for their events you could try hooked on driving on the 30th or track-masters on the 31st. Both are a little more expensive, but they offer instructors to every driver if desired for the entire day. The only thing is you'd have to check their rules on convertibles. They are both super picky. If I'm not mistaken they require full roll cages for open top cars, but I'm not 100% on that.

http://www.hookedondriving.com/hooke...on/Norcal-Reno

On the track you'll find the suspension and brake stuff to be hugely rewarding changes in this car. It'll negate a lot of the understeer built in to our cars. Good luck and let me know if you decide to head up here. I always love seeing other 1's on the track since their are usually 25 m3's to every 1 series
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      02-01-2013, 08:44 PM   #19
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Anyone tried fitting 245 Hoosiers/BFG R1s on 17 inch rim to any e82 ?
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      02-01-2013, 09:57 PM   #20
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Anyone tried fitting 245 Hoosiers/BFG R1s on 17 inch rim to any e82 ?
I use to run 245/40x17 BFG R1 on 8.5" rims two years ago. phenomenal grip but I am sure not as much as hoosiers. now they have a new softer compound like hoosiers under the R1S moniker. last year moved to toyo RA1 235/255x40 staggered setup. not as much grip but more talkative, can use on a wet track, less stress on the driving components and seemingly last forever. actually unlike most r-comps when grip is at it's best first time used, these RA1's get grippier when worn down. only draw back is they don't come in many ideal sizes.
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      02-02-2013, 03:32 AM   #21
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Are you talking about these guys http://www.ncracing.org/events.php

These guys have an event Sun the 19th as well as the 25th and 26th. This is who I run with and it's definitely an HPDE. No timing, passing only in designated zones (except open/race groups), instructors available, etc. If you can't get insurance for their events you could try hooked on driving on the 30th or track-masters on the 31st. Both are a little more expensive, but they offer instructors to every driver if desired for the entire day. The only thing is you'd have to check their rules on convertibles. They are both super picky. If I'm not mistaken they require full roll cages for open top cars, but I'm not 100% on that.

http://www.hookedondriving.com/hooke...on/Norcal-Reno

On the track you'll find the suspension and brake stuff to be hugely rewarding changes in this car. It'll negate a lot of the understeer built in to our cars. Good luck and let me know if you decide to head up here. I always love seeing other 1's on the track since their are usually 25 m3's to every 1 series
Yes, NCRC is who I was refering to and I had already checked in to the convertible aspect....FYI for anybody else reading this...

"NCRC Roll Protection Requirement

For safety reasons, all convertibles are required to have adequate roll protection in order to be driven at any NCRC event. This roll protection (factory or aftermarket) must allow the driver to pass the "broomstick test," which means that the driver's helmet must be below the line from the top of the roll hoop or bar to the top of the windshield.[1] [2] [3]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.Factory removable hard tops are normally not structural and do not meet our roll protection requirement.
2.If the a-pillar is not structural, the front shock mount points should be used for the broomstick test.
3.Porsche 911 Cabriolet and BMW convertibles have factory pop-up roll protection systems that meet our requirement."

Link

Hooked on driving allows them as well and specifies the 1999 and new 3 series but neglected to include the 1 series, likely an oversite but would need clarification prior to registering.

However, I still can't find insurance for NCRC events, only for HOD on the 30th so I'll have to give it some thought.

Thanks for the info.
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      02-02-2013, 06:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
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I use to run 245/40x17 BFG R1 on 8.5" rims two years ago. phenomenal grip but I am sure not as much as hoosiers. now they have a new softer compound like hoosiers under the R1S moniker. last year moved to toyo RA1 235/255x40 staggered setup. not as much grip but more talkative, can use on a wet track, less stress on the driving components and seemingly last forever. actually unlike most r-comps when grip is at it's best first time used, these RA1's get grippier when worn down. only draw back is they don't come in many ideal sizes.
I have been racing on Hoosier and BFG R1(S). My question is around the offset and rubbing. That said, what offset were you on?
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