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      01-08-2013, 10:19 AM   #23
That_1_Guy
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Guys.... your E-Dicks are huge.

Point is, Scoops don't help Turbo's breath, but it gives more air flow.... and more air is good no matter what angle you look at.

Turbos breath as much as they can on their own, no scoop will help that, but a scoop can help the air intake of an engine, and anyone with any car knowledge will tell you more air is great.

Let's knock this crap off now.

Scoops = 100$? No....

Scoops = 40$ shipped, and paintable to match the color of your car to make it look a little more aggressive, and assist with a little more air? Yes!


Go Cyba, or just don't get them.
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      01-08-2013, 10:25 AM   #24
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I can't believe there's a debate on RAM air in FI vehicles.
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      01-08-2013, 10:26 AM   #25
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you can assess my opinion all you want but I never said it was anything more than that an opinion, unlike you, which is where my problem lies. now if we are to believe that you can not feed efficient airflow through the system then this whole thing about dual cone intakes or high flow filters or mr 5 intake would be noting more than a placebo effect. if you're willing to accept this then I will digress. this argument is kind of like whether dci are better or oe air box. people want to believe forcing hot air through their system doesn't effect the performance will never be swayed otherwise.
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      01-08-2013, 10:28 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_1_Guy
Guys.... your E-Dicks are huge.

Point is, Scoops don't help Turbo's breath, but it gives more air flow.... and more air is good no matter what angle you look at.

Turbos breath as much as they can on their own, no scoop will help that, but a scoop can help the air intake of an engine, and anyone with any car knowledge will tell you more air is great.

Let's knock this crap off now.

Scoops = 100$? No....

Scoops = 40$ shipped, and paintable to match the color of your car to make it look a little more aggressive, and assist with a little more air? Yes!


Go Cyba, or just don't get them.
How can you give a turbo more air when it can only pull in as much air as its requested to based on the wastegates?
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      01-08-2013, 10:29 AM   #27
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How can you give a turbo more air when it can only pull in as much air as its requested to based on the wastegates?
Jesus.... you are retarded. Did you read my post at all? Holy balls.
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      01-08-2013, 10:36 AM   #28
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Quote:
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you can assess my opinion all you want but I never said it was anything more than that an opinion, unlike you, which is where my problem lies. now if we are to believe that you can not feed efficient airflow through the system then this whole thing about dual cone intakes or high flow filters or mr 5 intake would be noting more than a placebo effect. if you're willing to accept this then I will digress. this argument is kind of like whether dci are better or oe air box. people want to believe forcing hot air through their system doesn't effect the performance will never be swayed otherwise.
This is completely different from the DCI vs OE box argument. Completely different situations. DCI increases the surface area of the filter element, which can increase actual flow when the turbo is PULLING AIR through the filter. The scoop cannot FORCE air INTO the intake tract. You cannot PUSH air into the intake system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by That_1_Guy View Post
Point is, Scoops don't help Turbo's breath, but it gives more air flow.... and more air is good no matter what angle you look at.

Turbos breath as much as they can on their own, no scoop will help that, but a scoop can help the air intake of an engine, and anyone with any car knowledge will tell you more air is great.
This is such a contradiction, its not even funny.

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Jesus.... you are retarded. Did you read my post at all? Holy balls.
nou
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      01-08-2013, 10:36 AM   #29
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The cooler the inlet air the better, especially on a turbo car. When the turbo compresses the air it will generate heat no matter if a ram system, intake, or stock air box is in place or not. With an aftermarket intake, or ram scoops, you are not ingesting as much (calm down guys, I know it would be a very small amount) heat from the engine compartment thus having cooler more dense air going to the turbo to be compressed. WITH THAT SAID.... it depends on the area you live in, being some people live in the desert and go buy cold air intakes, scoops, or whatever, it doesn't help as much, but just giving the engine more air to suck in. When it has more air to suck in, it can compress the air at a cooler ratio, and when I say cooler, it could be less than a degree. If you do not use an intake, or scoops, you can be ingesting hot less dense air that gets even hotter when it is compressed. Even with an intercooler hot compressed air to your turbo is not as effecient...


So.... do you want to spend 200 on an intake and 100 on scoops to give your car a potential.... POTENTIAL, 5hp gain? The answer is simple...


IT'S UP TO THE OWNER.
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      01-08-2013, 10:38 AM   #30
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Jesus.... you are retarded. Did you read my post at all? Holy balls.
I did, and you were wrong. they don't do anything of any measurable merit.

at all.

they are entirely useless.

edit: and there is zero potential gain.
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      01-08-2013, 10:40 AM   #31
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they don't do anything of any measurable merit.
Thank you Lt Col Obvious... you got promoted for your post coming directly after I just said that. Thanks bud.
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      01-08-2013, 10:51 AM   #32
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sweet baby jesus, I opened a can of worms. you would think we were discussing the origins of man with a group of religious fundamentalists. ok I digress
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      01-08-2013, 02:10 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_1_Guy
Guys.... your E-Dicks are huge.

Point is, Scoops don't help Turbo's breath, but it gives more air flow.... and more air is good no matter what angle you look at.

Turbos breath as much as they can on their own, no scoop will help that, but a scoop can help the air intake of an engine, and anyone with any car knowledge will tell you more air is great.

Let's knock this crap off now.

Scoops = 100$? No....

Scoops = 40$ shipped, and paintable to match the color of your car to make it look a little more aggressive, and assist with a little more air? Yes!


Go Cyba, or just don't get them.
Bravo sir, well said. Obviously there e-dicks are to big for them to handle, and blocking what you are saying .
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      01-08-2013, 02:30 PM   #34
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whoa whoa guys, to each his own.
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      01-08-2013, 02:31 PM   #35
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i didnt want to start a civil war, just wanna know if anyone can prove if they add any oomph
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      01-08-2013, 02:46 PM   #36
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i didnt want to start a civil war, just wanna know if anyone can prove if they add any oomph
They dont.
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      01-08-2013, 02:49 PM   #37
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I know this was posted on the forums before, but here is proof that the intake scoops direct a little more air into the factory box. Does it prove that it helps? No. Does it prove the scoops direct a little more air into the intake box? Yes.

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      01-08-2013, 02:53 PM   #38
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whoa whoa guys, to each his own.
this doesn't really excuse being entirely incorrect.

want to prove these function in any fashion at all? get precise pressure levels in the intake manifold on a control run, install these scoops, do the same run, and show the delta. considering how minor the difference will be you will likely want at least 10 iterations of each condition across at least 5 cars (still far too low a sample size). doing it yourself, just up the iterations and understand your results will be somewhat flawed, but simply examine the trends and be willing to throw out very minor changes.

fwiw, you won't see shit.
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      01-08-2013, 04:05 PM   #39
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I think there is a whole lot more going on than the turbos simply suck in all the air they can and efficiency can't be improved. If so, block off one of those intakes above the radiator and let us know how it works out for you.

I'm not proposing that we are forcing air in to the turbos...I get the concept of vacuum but if there is a restriction created by more demand such as going from 8psi stock demand to 18psi tuned then those inlets MAY be a limiter. The only way to overcome that is with a larger opening or pressure. On top of that there are more forces at work here....how about the venturi affect at higher speeds of the air rushing past a parallel opening and creating a vacuum of it's own?

As for the Cyba scoops....if there is an efficient way to increase airflow...I definitely don't believe that those are it and may even hinder it more than anything by creating too much turbulence.
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      01-08-2013, 04:19 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmonet View Post
this doesn't really excuse being entirely incorrect.

want to prove these function in any fashion at all? get precise pressure levels in the intake manifold on a control run, install these scoops, do the same run, and show the delta. considering how minor the difference will be you will likely want at least 10 iterations of each condition across at least 5 cars (still far too low a sample size). doing it yourself, just up the iterations and understand your results will be somewhat flawed, but simply examine the trends and be willing to throw out very minor changes.

fwiw, you won't see shit.
Im not saying that people are right or wrong, just saying no ones going to agree on this..."to each his own" meaning some people may think they work and others dont.

I dont have the tools or time to do all that testing so I thought id ask those who do........
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      01-08-2013, 05:07 PM   #41
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http://www.paladinmicro.com/documents/RamAirMyth.pdf
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      01-08-2013, 05:42 PM   #42
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but of course dave rodabaugh is an engineering god....pffft
http://daverodabaugh.com/

"I used to be a car guy. By this I mean I studied cars in college; I used to participate on multiple cyperspace forums (fora?) for cars; and I have spent many, many hours fixing cars. I say ďused toĒ because as Iíve gotten older, my desire to work on cars has waned as other interests have emerged. I still read lightly about cars and I keep an eye on the auto industry, but I really only work on my cars now when they break. Since I still drive old used cars (Iím cheap!) I do occasionally have to fix them."
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      01-08-2013, 06:17 PM   #43
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he has a degree in mechanical engineering.....

what education do they people making claims in this thread have? if not aerodynamics/aerospace engineer or something similar - then I trust Dave > others.
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      01-08-2013, 06:22 PM   #44
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he has a degree in mechanical engineering.....

what education do they people making claims in this thread have? if not aerodynamics engineer - then I trust Dave > others.
him and thousands more mechanical engineers that are unemployed. now if had the creds from a big auto I could sit up and listen. but he doesn't so who the fudge cares what he has to say
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