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      02-15-2013, 03:45 PM   #45
SteveAZ
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BTW...those were "Prothane"....but they come in a Whiteline package.

The Powerflex or AKG...yes, the M3, not sure but suspect so and I'd want to use the freezer technique mentioned a above to shrink the metal and the rubber and then grease them to reduce the risk of damaging them on install...JMO
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      02-15-2013, 03:59 PM   #46
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Thanks for the detailed steps! I'm definitely getting these!
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      02-15-2013, 04:14 PM   #47
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No problem...good luck and after my wife helps me bleed the brakes (need a pedal pusher)...I'll go play with it.

Here are the measurements for the stockers that was asked for.




There is a slight flange at the bottom I can measure if you need that...
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      02-16-2013, 02:13 AM   #48
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Took the car for a spin...definitely no noticeable increase in noise or vibration, actually might even be less. Feels like the rear end absorbs or at least retains less energy in the very short term. By this I mean, when hitting a bump with one side of the car, it doesn't feel like it transfers as much to the other side of the car and like they do this juggling act for a short period of time creating a rocking sensation...so I think that's definitely improved. Same thing when doing accelerations and corners, also feels a bit flatter in the corners but haven't really pushed it too hard yet. Will build up to that as I get to know the car a bit better with this new change. Still needs coilovers, but that'll wait for a little bit. Will update in a few days with my impressions.

Pics I promised...

This is where to disconnect the brake lines, mine are SS and look a bit different. Also can see one of the e-brake lines you need to unclip, there is one on each side.


Front bushing jack point...place jack right on the round knuckle as it is pretty stable and applies direct pressure to the front bushing.



Same with rear, place jack on pivot point of control arm. Exhaust pipe won't be there.

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      02-16-2013, 05:35 PM   #49
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Sounds like a project that is successful and relatively cheap.

Can others with Sub-frame bushes confirm this:

Quote:
Feels like the rear end absorbs or at least retains less energy in the very short term. By this I mean, when hitting a bump with one side of the car, it doesn't feel like it transfers as much to the other side of the car and like they do this juggling act for a short period of time creating a rocking sensation...so I think that's definitely improved. Same thing when doing accelerations and corners, also feels a bit flatter in the corners
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      02-16-2013, 11:42 PM   #50
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^Yep...a $180 to my door with nothing more to buy.

Drove a bit more today but haven't done a REALLY aggressive corner yet....However,
I think I may be seeing a tad more understeer...not totally sure if I'm over-analyzing this or not. As I said, the car seems a bit flatter in the corners and if I do a quick adjustment of the steering wheel and snap it back, the car settles quicker...so I think the rear end is a bit stiffer, curious if this is causing less weight transfer to the outside tires and more understeer in the corners. Wonder if I shouldn't remove my rear sway bar....other than that the car feels good, the M3 parts and these bushings have really helped to give it a solid feel but it's not harsh...actually seems a bit less clunky...that I really like.
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      02-17-2013, 07:31 PM   #51
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Was giving some more thought to the removal procedure...I'll bet a good heat gun would also do the trick...I'd still be careful as they are still capable of melting plastic, but no open flame.
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      02-17-2013, 10:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ View Post
No problem...good luck and after my wife helps me bleed the brakes (need a pedal pusher)...I'll go play with it.

Here are the measurements for the stockers that was asked for.




There is a slight flange at the bottom I can measure if you need that...
Thank you sir. Great post, super helpful
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      02-24-2013, 09:50 PM   #53
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Okay, so I've had these on for about 300 miles or so...my impressions thus far but of course this is all very subjective.

The car is definitely more solid. As a matter of fact my wife just drove the car tonight and she said "I can't believe how tight the steering is now, it makes my car feel so sloppy". She has an FX but up until a few months ago drove a G37S. This was also the first time she drove the car since it got M3 arms, wheels and tires, additional camber (-1.5x4), and the rear bushings. She's right, it's pretty tight and the steering is a tad heavy but solid and great feedback. The car definitely feels more connected. In an earlier post I spoke of a section of road that I drive that had the backend bouncing up and down and rocking a bit. The rocking is still there due to the undulations in the road surface, but now it's more like the whole car is rocking. Shocks and struts will hopefully help with that. The back end bouncy feeling is gone.

If I flick the wheel as if I were avoiding a pot hole and flick it back, the car stabalizes pretty quick and I no longer feel like the front and rear settle at 2 different rates.

The corner I spoke of, I've nailed it a couple times pretty hard now, I still feel like I get launched a bit but again don't feel like the back starts doing the same sort of ballet it did before, it's a nasty approach to a corner. All things considered the car does pretty well. Again, hoping coilovers help with that.

Accellerations are definitely improved...no doubt about that. I don't feel near the dancing around that I did before the upgrade. Still get wheel spin of course, but only a slight wiggle out of the rear end.

Road noise and vibration...I've really tried to pay attention to this...it's sooo subjective. Is it increased, maybe slightly, I wouldn't consider my car a luxury ride in any way. With everything I've done, it's a much less clunky feeling, so I feel quite a bit but it's a sports car...I want to feel what's going on. It definitely handles the big stuff better now, so in that respect I'd say it's actually improved as far as vibration. Small stuff like rough road surfaces, it may be slightly worse. But I also run 36F/38R PSI, this could certainly contribute to that.

Understeer, I'm undecided on this one, so many variables (temps, surface...)...sometimes I think it has a tad bit more, others not at all. It's really hard when just driving on the street. Overall my car doesn't have much understeer, so if it contributed to it, it's certainly not much. I will literally come up to a 90 degree corner very hot and just throw the car in to it...no complaints (except from my passengers...lol). The backend is predictable and while I can certainly get it to oversteer post apex, it's a conscious decision and very predicatable.

Overall, I'm very happy with the upgrade, if I had known what I know now, I would have done it much earlier. So many stories of the installation costs and how you have to drop the rear end is a bit intimidating. If you're a DIYer, this is not hard, it really sounds much more intimidating than it is to actually do it. Pressing M3 bushings in "might" be a bit more tricky...I really wouldn't think so though. Lube em up and use the same trick I used to remove the old bushings (minus the heat) and let gravity and the jack do their thing. Work smarter...not harder
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      02-24-2013, 11:01 PM   #54
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thank you for the review & the initiative on the prothane/whiteline bushing.

I hope some people with M3 or Polyurethane agree with your review
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      02-25-2013, 03:44 AM   #55
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Sorry maybe i missed that somewhere what was your trick pressing out the old bushings?

Update sorry found that part Thanks a lot

Last edited by RimasRS; 02-25-2013 at 03:53 AM.
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      03-01-2013, 08:37 AM   #56
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Guys I've got the red AKG bushes and done approx 200miles on them but with solid TMS diff mounts, the diff whine is far too much for my liking. I'm actually fine with the ride on these bushes and AST4100s, it is just the whine about 40mph. I've just ordered a set of these Whiteline bushes over the Powerflex ones as i have heard too many bad reviews of the latter.

If anyone is willing to cover shipping to the USA then you're free to have them. Perfect for a track car or use with softer diff bushes.
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      03-01-2013, 09:17 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Guys I've got the red AKG bushes and done approx 200miles on them but with solid TMS diff mounts, the diff whine is far too much for my liking. I'm actually fine with the ride on these bushes and AST4100s, it is just the whine about 40mph. I've just ordered a set of these Whiteline bushes over the Powerflex ones as i have heard too many bad reviews of the latter.

If anyone is willing to cover shipping to the USA then you're free to have them. Perfect for a track car or use with softer diff bushes.
free bushings, just pay for shipping?? if thats the case mate consider them sold!
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      03-01-2013, 09:27 AM   #58
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free bushings, just pay for shipping?? if thats the case mate consider them sold!
Shipping from the UK should be less than $50. I've just had a call from Whiteline and I have to wait a week for them, so I'll have them out the weekend after. Send me a PM if you're still interested.
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      03-01-2013, 04:12 PM   #59
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Wow, I sent Pm too.

I'd tolerate some discomfort for semi free stuff

Lol if only i was here at 9am
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"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is

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      03-01-2013, 11:19 PM   #60
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So these are full bushing replacements, right?

Did you have to get a bushing removal tool to remove the stock bushings still?
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      03-03-2013, 05:02 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idnan View Post
Guys I've got the red AKG bushes and done approx 200miles on them but with solid TMS diff mounts, the diff whine is far too much for my liking. I'm actually fine with the ride on these bushes and AST4100s, it is just the whine about 40mph. I've just ordered a set of these Whiteline bushes over the Powerflex ones as i have heard too many bad reviews of the latter.

If anyone is willing to cover shipping to the USA then you're free to have them. Perfect for a track car or use with softer diff bushes.
Are you changing diff mounts, RSFB's, or both? Why are you attributng the diff whine to your bushings and why do you think the whiteline bushings will make a difference? Do you have an LSD?
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      03-03-2013, 10:00 AM   #62
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Quote:
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Are you changing diff mounts, RSFB's, or both? Why are you attributng the diff whine to your bushings and why do you think the whiteline bushings will make a difference? Do you have an LSD?
Current setup is AKG 75D subframe bushes, Turner Motorsport aluminium diff bushes and my 335i has a full m3 rear subframe with custom driveshaft. So the OEM m3 lsd with fresh fluid. Currently it sounds like a racecar from the rear.

The AKG 75D subframe bushes are almost solid and much stiffer than the whiteline bushes which are approx 80a. Going by the the two images below there is a significant difference between the two:





These are the two major changes I've made to my car which didn't whine before them. I'm not changing the aluminium diff bushes as they are much harder to change than the subframe ones. Plus a few people have the diff lockdown kit with aluminium diff bushes and powerflex mounts with no whine issues.
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      03-03-2013, 11:08 PM   #63
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Ah, you're the one...I remember reading about that...NICE JOB! Yeah I was aware of the hardness scale and had researched it before I bought the Whiteline bushings. Usually when you hear people talk about differential whine it's more gear alignment or something of that nature so I wanted to make sure you weren't trying to compensate for that.

I'm going to do the differential bushings as well when I do my LSD, but I had planned on the whiteline...I don't want any aluminum bushings, that's not a bushing, that's a thick washer
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      03-06-2013, 03:49 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idnan View Post
Current setup is AKG 75D subframe bushes, Turner Motorsport aluminium diff bushes and my 335i has a full m3 rear subframe with custom driveshaft. So the OEM m3 lsd with fresh fluid. Currently it sounds like a racecar from the rear.

The AKG 75D subframe bushes are almost solid and much stiffer than the whiteline bushes which are approx 80a. Going by the the two images below there is a significant difference between the two:


These are the two major changes I've made to my car which didn't whine before them. I'm not changing the aluminium diff bushes as they are much harder to change than the subframe ones. Plus a few people have the diff lockdown kit with aluminium diff bushes and powerflex mounts with no whine issues.
Hey Idnan where did you ordered white line bushings? Is it in Europe?
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      03-06-2013, 04:20 PM   #65
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Hey Idnan where did you ordered white line bushings? Is it in Europe?
http://www.potn.co.uk/bmw-3-series-e..._p23322325.htm

Not cheap though, but still less than the Powerflex ones made in the UK
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      03-19-2013, 06:49 AM   #66
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idnan, How'd the bushing work out?

An update on my install...I've had these in for a month now and done about 700 miles. Right now, I'm actually pretty pleased with how the car is handling. I had a track day planned but it rained so that got put off for a bit. Should be another one soon. So I can't really comment from that stand point.

Basically, everybody talks about understeer and truth is, you can make any car understeer, it's all relative to how the car handled as a baseline. I will say with the mods I currently have to my suspension, I no longer have that "gawd I've got to do soemthing about this" feeling and I had it BAD if you saw any of my posts early on and even considered getting rid of the car for that reason. However, the car feels pretty good to me right now but I do think there is some more understeer I'd like to dial out of the setup. However, I am running at stock height and with stock dampers and springs and seriously, I want really good coilovers when I make the leap, so I'm holding off a bit. But, I seriously don't feel rushed now. The rear end is much more predictable, I don't feel it wondering around back there, and I wouldn't say I've comprimised the ride quality. As a matter of fact, when it comes to pot holes, manhole covers, or undulations in the road..it's greatly improved. So I feel I can now say...I do recommend these bushings without reservations.

Funny too is that my wife drove my car while hers was in the shop...got back in her car and said...."I can't believe the difference, your car feels so tight and handles so much better than mine"...agreed, her's feels like a sled with mushy handling and crappy brakes...oh and no power

One thing I do miss...when I'd punched it before and the tires were spinning...I miss the dancing around the rearend did..I could tell I was spinning badly, knew I was putting power to the ground, and it made the car feel kind of fun. Now, I can tell but not near as well and I see it more in the rpms than feeling the car shimmy around.
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