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      03-19-2013, 07:46 PM   #23
SteveAZ
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Kind of hard to trouble shoot coil packs if you're not getting any codes. But sense you'll be checking the plugs, just make sure to inspect and seat them really well when putting it all back together.

I use a wire gauge to check the gap as it'll fit between the anode and cathode better than anything else given they're a 3 prong'd design. I just bent the prongs with a decent set of needle nose pliers to adjust them.

As to the injectors, when you check the plugs, you'll be able to shine a flash light on the them to see the part number. If they end in 261, they are the recent rev, but not the newest as most won't have those. If they end in 138, they are the old rev. When I checked mine, I had (4) 261s and (2) 138s...I then swapped out the 138s for 261s and coded them. However, I later found a leaky 261 and swapped it for one of the 138s I had taken out. So just because they are 261s is no guarantee.

As to the oil change, I didn't, it's not like you're decarbonizing the engine...you can't with out getting a lot deeper in to it. I personally wouldn't worry about the little bit of buildup you'll clean out of the injectors and such. Doesn't take much to disturb their operation.
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      03-20-2013, 04:28 AM   #24
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That's great Steve - thanks for that info - should be a great help.

Being that I'm in the UK, I suppose I'd have to buy the coil packs myself if I have any old ones in there? Or is there a recall that covers the UK too?

Bet they're quite pricey.
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      03-20-2013, 04:48 AM   #25
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I may not have been very clear...those part numbers are for the injectors, not the coil packs. Coil packs aren't covered by any recall I'm aware of. Coil packs run about $40 from what I've seen. Injectors on the other hand, I'm not sure of their status. My car isn't under warranty and frankly I wouldn't want anyone else in there anyway. If you have to replace any of the injectors out of pocket, I got mine from Dan at United BMW online for about $125 a piece. You need to order the decouplers as well and they are like $6 or so. However, I've heard talk about them not being available because some new injectors are out. And not only that but that if you replace an injector with one of the new injectors...you have to replace all 6. I have not verified this for myself yet and I would defintiely try the SL1 first.
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      03-20-2013, 06:02 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveAZ View Post
I may not have been very clear...those part numbers are for the injectors, not the coil packs. Coil packs aren't covered by any recall I'm aware of. Coil packs run about $40 from what I've seen. Injectors on the other hand, I'm not sure of their status. My car isn't under warranty and frankly I wouldn't want anyone else in there anyway. If you have to replace any of the injectors out of pocket, I got mine from Dan at United BMW online for about $125 a piece. You need to order the decouplers as well and they are like $6 or so. However, I've heard talk about them not being available because some new injectors are out. And not only that but that if you replace an injector with one of the new injectors...you have to replace all 6. I have not verified this for myself yet and I would defintiely try the SL1 first.
Cool, thanks. I'm definitely considering the SL-1, however it seems to be quite hard to find over here. The place I get my oil (online) has it, but it's like 13 a bottle, so would be alright for a one-off treatment, but not as an ongoing thing as some people use it for.

Is it totally safe though? I always thought it was a bad idea to use additives. Did you experience using it in your car with only a small amount of fuel in the tank? I'd probably do the whole bottle in 3/4 - full tank.
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      03-20-2013, 06:48 AM   #27
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I was kind of hesitant as well...so the guy that recommended it for me sold me 3 bottles for $24. I will say, after the first bottle I didn't notice it near as much as I did after 2. But of course every situation is different. I am mearly sharing my experience and what I was told by the mechanic I spoke with. There may also be an equivalent over there:shrug:

The other thing was, when he recommended it to me I was hesitant and told him I had tried a couple bottle of Techron with no luck. His attitude was "seriously, just do this". Of course the more you dilute it...the less affective it's going to be. He wanted me to run 3 bottle in one tank of fuel, I countered with the plan I described because I didn't want to run it for that long. He agreed that it was an option and as I said, it didn't sit in the tank or fuel system long. I added it, and promptly ran it through the system under low stress. No I didn't experience any issues but I wouldn't want to place a lot of demand on the motor under those conditions either as I had no idea what it did to the octane rating. I still have the third bottle because after the second I didn't feel another was necessary and am saving it for later.

Just my experience...take it for what it's worth and let us know how things go. No guarantee this is even related to the issue you are having.
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      03-20-2013, 07:26 AM   #28
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Cool, thanks. Yeah, I'm not so bothered if it does nothing - as long as it doesn't cause any issues by clogging things up etc.

The car isn't really that old though, so I'm hoping it should be fine.

Also, on the BITOG forums, they don't seem to have a bad word to say about it, so I guess it must be OK.
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      05-19-2013, 12:18 AM   #29
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Thanks both - I think that's a job for the weekend then. I was stood there whilst the tech did the job and he was as careful as he could have been, but number 6's hinged clip on the top came off and he had to clip it back on to get the coil pack out. Other than that he seemed pretty careful - the coil packs are pretty easy to break from what I've seen and read.

What will I see if they've been arcing? A burning/melting of the plastic?

As for checking the plugs, I have the right socket, but I guess I'll need a tool of some sort to check the gapping? How do I adjust the gapping though?

As far as the injectors, I have no idea how many were replaced, but they were done when the car was less than a year old, along with the HPFP. I think the first owner of the car was a BMW garage, so they appear to have just done both in one go, to be safe.

With regards to the injector cleaner, do I have to change my oil after doing this, or should the cleaner not result in any deposits in the oil?
Have you corrected your problem? If so, what did you do? I've been the fuel cleaner route and have replaced my plugs with factory plugs. But the problem remains. I'm thinking coils are my next stop. If I replace one, I'll replace them all. After all, they're the originals.
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      05-19-2013, 06:00 AM   #30
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Nah, I went the fuel cleaner option and even had my intake ports walnut shell blasted by BMW. Still doing it. BMW fully checked the car over (via computer) whilst it was in and claim that everything was fine. As such, I'm none the wiser.

Please please post back here if you manage to fix it. I half expect it to be my HPFP now, as my car has been starting a bit oddly recently, however the BMW garage claimed that it was fine according to the computer. I'm just filming my starts on my phone every day now to try to gather evidence of the issue. Not sure if it's related to the wobbly idle though.
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      05-19-2013, 08:59 AM   #31
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Nah, I went the fuel cleaner option and even had my intake ports walnut shell blasted by BMW. Still doing it. BMW fully checked the car over (via computer) whilst it was in and claim that everything was fine. As such, I'm none the wiser.

Please please post back here if you manage to fix it. I half expect it to be my HPFP now, as my car has been starting a bit oddly recently, however the BMW garage claimed that it was fine according to the computer. I'm just filming my starts on my phone every day now to try to gather evidence of the issue. Not sure if it's related to the wobbly idle though.
I'm thinking my problem is with a coil or coils. I've had the HPFP failure in 2010. It was immediate and with very short notice. I also had a couple injectors replaced, 3 I believe back in 2010 too. Had the carbon job when the injectors were replaced. Based on my experience, I think I'm going to breakdown and get 6 coils. If I do replace them, I will definitely let you know the outcome.
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      05-19-2013, 09:21 AM   #32
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Superb, thanks. Any ideas what they cost? My car has also had HPFP and injectors replaced back in 2009. Does your car hesitate on start up at all? My car doesn't crank too long, but kinda stumbles to a start, then everything is fine.
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      05-21-2013, 07:32 PM   #33
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Coils aint cheap. They range from $45 to $60 depending on where you purchase them. My first stop is getting some OBD2 software on my laptop. I want to see if I have any codes, etc. I'm expecting the OBD2 cable sometime over the next couple days. Once I get it, I will download the software and check for codes. I'll let you know what I find.
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      05-21-2013, 07:35 PM   #34
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Superb, thanks. Any ideas what they cost? My car has also had HPFP and injectors replaced back in 2009. Does your car hesitate on start up at all? My car doesn't crank too long, but kinda stumbles to a start, then everything is fine.
I forgot to say that BMWs idle rough when the engine is cold. This is my second BMW and both idle roughly for the first 60 seconds but they warm up and smooth out quickly. One thing I have started noticing is an occasional misfire after a long drive when idling in the garage. All the more reason for me to suspect a coil since I changed the plugs with BMW plugs about 2 wks ago. Other than that, I have no start-up issues.
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      05-22-2013, 10:04 AM   #35
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Great - let me know what you find. I have a Cobb AP and that didn't detect any codes on my car.
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      05-23-2013, 08:03 AM   #36
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I went to the dealer back in January when I first experienced the problem. They didn't find codes either. They recommended I run some fuel system cleaner so I did for about 3 consecutive tanks and the problem remained. I changed my plugs and problem remained. Now I am suspecting coils. Which one, I don't know. But if I replace one, I will replace all because I don't want to deal with this down the road. My cable is due to be delivered today. I will download the associated software this weekend and see what's up.
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      05-23-2013, 09:34 AM   #37
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Superb, thanks.

You've done very similar to me. Mine has always done it, so because I was running a tune I had my plugs changed early, but the throbbing seemed to be stronger afterwards. However, the weekend before I'd fitted M3 tranny bushes, so it's possible that's the reason that I'm feeling it more now - though I didn't notice until a week later after the new plugs were fitted.

I then tried fuel system cleaner (2 bottles in 2 consecutive tanks) and no change.

Then most recently I had the intake ports walnut shell blasted and still no change.

It's possible that my issue got worse when the plugs were done because a coil got damaged, but I'm not getting any misfires, I don't think. (Not 100% sure how to tell, but the car isn't throwing up any lights and it runs perfectly at any speed other than idle, so I assume it's not a misfire.)

As such, I'd be really interested to know what you find.

Thanks for your feedback so far, as well.
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      05-23-2013, 07:46 PM   #38
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I learned there are two Bosch coil part numbers. One part number has been discontinued. The last seven digits of the discontinued coil are 7571643. The last seven of the new Bosch part number is 7594937. So I pulled all my coils to check. I have the old coil number. I measured their resistance. I have 0.6 to 0.7 ohms across the two terminals that are in line with one another. From either of those terminals to the lone terminal, I read an open connection. So I didn't see anything different from coil to coil. But the old part numbers of my coils gives me some hope. My OBD2 cable arrived today so tomorrow I will download software and hook it up. I'll let you know what happens.
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      05-24-2013, 04:29 AM   #39
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Yeah, I was aware of the new and old coils, but hadn't got round to checking mine yet.

Looking forward to seeing if you discover anything.

Unfortunately BMW UK are crap when it comes to product recalls, so where you have a long warranty on HPFP and turbos, BMW UK don't even acknowledge them as problems. My dealer argued with me that the HPFP isn't a common issue on N54 cars! Apparently I just think it's a common issue because I'd been reading online, despite the fact that BMW NA have issued a recall on the exact same part.

I even pointed out that my own car has already had a new HPFP installed when it was less than a year old, which somewhat made him back track a little, but it just shows how much of a PITA BMW UK are vs BMW NA, and how they like to think we don't know anything about our cars. They won't be helping me sort my issues without enormous bills and they don't appear to know where to start looking, so I'll be very glad if you manage to solve this.
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      05-24-2013, 02:09 PM   #40
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My old 1.8T did this...mamazed the 135 does this
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      05-24-2013, 09:58 PM   #41
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I didn't download the sw for my cable today because I had another plan in mind. I read somewhere on one of these bimmer forums about the importance of using dielectric grease. So this AM I anxiously pick up some on the way to work. After work I pulled the coil and plug for cylinder one. I have a work car so the engine of the 135 was dead cold. I had one of the old plugs lying around. I inserted it into the coil boot out of curiousity to see if it makes contact with the business end of the coil. Well it doesn't. I measure about a 3mm gap between the plug and the terminal inside the boot. That's a huge, power-robbing gap !!!

I forced the plug into the boot so it would touch the terminal but it would spring back when I released the pressure. i figured the coil boot may need a bit of stretching if you get my point. I got a pair of wide pair of needle nose pliers that could fit inside the boot. I opened the pliers inside the boot to stretch it wide a bit in several directions taking care not to tear or puncture the boot. Of course the boot being made of some kind of tough rubber would spring back when I released the pliers.

Next I got a cotton swab (aka Q-tip) applied some dielectric grease to the tip and coated the inside of the coil boot...the part that fits over the spark plug. I also coated the ceramic part of the plug body. I was careful not to get the dielectric grease on the terminal inside the coil boot or on the spark plug terminal. I repeated the same (boot stretching and dielectric grease application) for all coils / plugs, buttoned it up and started the car. It fired up as I expected, and it sounded different in a VERY promising way.

I took it for a drive but it was near dark and our sheriff's dept is all caught-up on their crime so they laser the highway looking for 'donations.' Well I gave at the office so I didn't summon up all the king's horses and all the king's men. But it sure feels promising. Tomorrow I will do a test run when I'll have a better chance of spotting the cops.

If this procedure works, I will hypothesize that over time the factory dielectric grease dries out and contributes to the gap inside the coil boot. That gap between the plug terminal and coil coupled with the wearing of the original plug gap would add up to one tough nut to crack.

Looking back, when I call myself 'changing the plugs,' I exacerbated that gap between coil and plug. I should have used the dielectric grease but I didn't know better. I really hope I'm onto something. If so, I wonder how many coils people have replaced that were not defective but just needed some dielectric grease to get back to spec. There will be those who say that if the replaced coils corrects the problem then the old coil must have been bad. I would rebut and say maybe the new coil had a light coat of dielectric grease already applied that they were not aware of. But I don't care to get into a pissing contest. I just want to fix this issue and post so others can learn from my mistakes. From what I figure, we can't all have defective cars !!! And I have a saying that goes something like this. If you have a tough problem, it'll take a long time to figure out but only two seconds to fix it. Well if this works, my maxim will pan out. I'll coin the phase and call it Jazz's Law of Fupahs (lol.)

FYI, dielectric grease is not conductive. It is conducive to keeping the spark from shorting to ground through the boot which is why it is applied both inside the boot and on the ceramic (insulator) part of the spark plug body.

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      05-25-2013, 06:09 AM   #42
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Sounds good - a cheap fix is always better than an expensive one, if it works!

Let us know what you find today.

Could you just pull the coils and put the grease around the inside, and not remove the plugs again? I assume the grease would transfer straight to the plugs anyway when they are re-fitted?
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      05-25-2013, 12:17 PM   #43
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Got up this AM and started the car and it started as expected. Drove it around to let the oil temp get up at least to 190 or 200. Keep in mind, this is an automatic. When I get on it in D, it ramps up as if it is following a program. The ramp up in not linear but more logarithmic in nature. When I punch it say around 10MPH, it picks up speed for about 1 second then accelerates a little harder for about 2 seconds then it goes like hell. So that might be normal programming for Drive. DTC was on. I need to try Drive with DTC off. But DS (drive sport) with DTC on is a different story. This is the performance I paid for. I was happy. However I will NOT say this is fixed just yet because the problem is intermittent. I want to give it at least a month before I say I think I'm onto something. But like you said, it's a cheap fix and I just couldn't pass on it.

I would think lubing the inside of the coil boot would work just as well. I did both because I am so tired of hunting this gremlin. If you do the dielectric grease, let me know your experience. Meanwhile I will keep you posted on my experiences. I don't drive the car during the weekday so you may not hear from me during that time. It's a three day weekend here so I will post tomorrow and Monday too.
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      05-25-2013, 12:27 PM   #44
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Great, thanks. I'll try to hunt down some dielectric grease and have a go. 3 day weekend here, too. :-)
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