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      04-19-2013, 05:29 AM   #155
Efthreeoh
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Originally Posted by RallyRcrr View Post
Respectfully, I disagree. The LSD argument doesn't apply because I'm talking about systems that remove the driving feel. The automatic is one more layer that removes one from the driving experience. I wouldn't want rev matching for the same reason because it removes one more way to interact with the car. There is a certain satisfaction I get out of heel and toe'ing on my own. Technology can be a major benefit, but in this way it hinders. My argument is that once you add too many layers to the driving experience and then it ceases to become an experience...your experience.

I don't disagree that current and future cars will always be the result of what the majority wants. Its simple economics. The majority will ask for automatics, self driven cars, and other technology. But drivers...as part of society that would label themselves an automotive purist, I regretfully admit that we are slowly shrinking in numbers. We are not part of that majority. These "advances" will not cater to us and will slowly erode what we enjoy.

If I sound cataclismic, please excuse the dour tone. I just love driving, and the machines that make a great drive possible. I don't believe this will come any time soon. I just think it will be sad when/if it does go away. Nothing lasts forever.
I'm with you all the way on this one Brother. Sadly I think my E90 will be my last BMW. The F30 comes "standard" with an automatic transmission; you have to spec the manual trans if you want one (BMW blasphemy). Automatic engine cutoff that you have to deactivate EVERY time you start the car (OMG!). iPad sticking out of the dash? Ugh. Turbo 4-cylinder and no NA in-line 6? No thanks.

Motor Trend's recent review of the manual-trans M5 pissed all over the clutch and shifter setup - in a BMW for God's sake.
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      04-19-2013, 10:59 AM   #156
idrift4wd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyRcrr View Post
Respectfully, I disagree. The LSD argument doesn't apply because I'm talking about systems that remove the driving feel. The automatic is one more layer that removes one from the driving experience. I wouldn't want rev matching for the same reason because it removes one more way to interact with the car. There is a certain satisfaction I get out of heel and toe'ing on my own. Technology can be a major benefit, but in this way it hinders. My argument is that once you add too many layers to the driving experience and then it ceases to become an experience...your experience.

I don't disagree that current and future cars will always be the result of what the majority wants. Its simple economics. The majority will ask for automatics, self driven cars, and other technology. But drivers...as part of society that would label themselves an automotive purist, I regretfully admit that we are slowly shrinking in numbers. We are not part of that majority. These "advances" will not cater to us and will slowly erode what we enjoy.

If I sound cataclismic, please excuse the dour tone. I just love driving, and the machines that make a great drive possible. I don't believe this will come any time soon. I just think it will be sad when/if it does go away. Nothing lasts forever.
haha, you sound reasonable and you bring good point to your argument.

Though, having no lsd may not be in the same category as auto vs manual, LSD gives a certain driving characteristic that is well enjoyed in a drivers car. More importantly, in my opinion, a drivers car doesnt have to be manual to actually be a drivers car. For some stick shift drivers, they may see it differently.

We all know the stick-shift is a slowing dying trend, as dual clutches have taken over the game. Dual clutches and automatics have "dulled" the driving experience because all you really need to do is floor it, but it provides faster lap times, comfort ability, and you can get the most power out of the engine to your wheels.

The audi TT-RS in europe is blazing fast because their dual clutch. In America it is dulled down to a kinda fast 6mt. 6mt maybe more fun, but automatics are faster. So at the same time its 6mt provides a great driving experience, automatics provide speed, repetition, and features. Its a trade off for a buyer to think about. Old school or new school.

We all want our 6mt, LSD, RWD/awd, less electronic nannies, ability to fully disable traction, and a heap ton of power. Sounds like a great time, but at the cost of being faster, more technology maybe worth it for some. This is especially true in exotics. FRS/BRZ is also the new "drivers car" so i wouldnt say the 135is is the last drivers car.
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      04-19-2013, 08:16 PM   #157
RallyRcrr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
haha, you sound reasonable and you bring good point to your argument.

Though, having no lsd may not be in the same category as auto vs manual, LSD gives a certain driving characteristic that is well enjoyed in a drivers car. More importantly, in my opinion, a drivers car doesnt have to be manual to actually be a drivers car. For some stick shift drivers, they may see it differently.

We all know the stick-shift is a slowing dying trend, as dual clutches have taken over the game. Dual clutches and automatics have "dulled" the driving experience because all you really need to do is floor it, but it provides faster lap times, comfort ability, and you can get the most power out of the engine to your wheels.

The audi TT-RS in europe is blazing fast because their dual clutch. In America it is dulled down to a kinda fast 6mt. 6mt maybe more fun, but automatics are faster. So at the same time its 6mt provides a great driving experience, automatics provide speed, repetition, and features. Its a trade off for a buyer to think about. Old school or new school.

We all want our 6mt, LSD, RWD/awd, less electronic nannies, ability to fully disable traction, and a heap ton of power. Sounds like a great time, but at the cost of being faster, more technology maybe worth it for some. This is especially true in exotics. FRS/BRZ is also the new "drivers car" so i wouldnt say the 135is is the last drivers car.
Thanks. Reasonable is all I try to be in these forums. A lot of people can get bent out of shape real quick. I just want to put in my .02 and be part of the community, even if its not completely representative of everone's views. No opinion is rarely ever universally agreed upon. But I expect that and welcome it, because no one person or group ever is ever right 100% of the time.
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