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      05-02-2013, 08:39 PM   #1
John_01
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M3 rear toe links on Non-M?

From what I have read on the forum, nearly all of the suspension arms and links from the M3 can be fitted to the Non-M version. So it means the upper and lower camber links, the trailing link and upper guide rod all have same dimensions as the stock parts on the 135i, correct?

It seems the only exception is the rear toe control rod which is shorter on the M3 than the 135i. Has anyone considered having the rear sub-frame modified with a new anchor point so the M3 toe control rods can be used. Maybe this will avoid the tendency for rear wheels to toe-in as the suspension is compressed and reduce bump-steer.
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Last edited by John_01; 05-03-2013 at 04:46 AM.
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      05-14-2013, 03:15 PM   #2
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All the same dimensions with the exception of the rear toe arms.
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      11-20-2013, 09:33 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
All the same dimensions with the exception of the rear toe arms.
Can you list the dimensions of the non-M toe arms vs the M toe arms?
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      11-20-2013, 09:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
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Can you list the dimensions of the non-M toe arms vs the M toe arms?
Just get adjustable arms and be done with it
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      11-20-2013, 10:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Stohlen View Post
Just get adjustable arms and be done with it
Do you have a lot of experience with adjustable arms? I'm looking to make my daily driven 135i more planted. The M3 toe arms are $76 each, and I'd be willing to bet they'll outlast a set of adjustable arms. What the OP suggested is not a difficult modification. If the toe arms are only a little shorter (which they look to be) we're talking about shifting the mount point out a minimal distance and elongating the hole on the opposite side of the subframe. I know a lot of you guys just buy whatever is easiest, but I spent several years in an E30 where these kinds of mods are commonplace.
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      11-20-2013, 11:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwawuz02 View Post
Do you have a lot of experience with adjustable arms? I'm looking to make my daily driven 135i more planted. The M3 toe arms are $76 each, and I'd be willing to bet they'll outlast a set of adjustable arms. What the OP suggested is not a difficult modification. If the toe arms are only a little shorter (which they look to be) we're talking about shifting the mount point out a minimal distance and elongating the hole on the opposite side of the subframe. I know a lot of you guys just buy whatever is easiest, but I spent several years in an E30 where these kinds of mods are commonplace.
Good luck with the eccentric bolt that's used for alignments. This is not that simple because of those. Also, I'd be very hesitant to elongate holes as the bolt can slip.

The adjustable are easy and give you the most amount of range. Haven't had a problem with the ones Harold sells after 2 years and roughly 20 autox's, 20 track days, and daily driving.
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      11-21-2013, 03:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fboutlaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwawuz02 View Post
Do you have a lot of experience with adjustable arms? I'm looking to make my daily driven 135i more planted. The M3 toe arms are $76 each, and I'd be willing to bet they'll outlast a set of adjustable arms. What the OP suggested is not a difficult modification. If the toe arms are only a little shorter (which they look to be) we're talking about shifting the mount point out a minimal distance and elongating the hole on the opposite side of the subframe. I know a lot of you guys just buy whatever is easiest, but I spent several years in an E30 where these kinds of mods are commonplace.
Good luck with the eccentric bolt that's used for alignments. This is not that simple because of those. Also, I'd be very hesitant to elongate holes as the bolt can slip.

The adjustable are easy and give you the most amount of range. Haven't had a problem with the ones Harold sells after 2 years and roughly 20 autox's, 20 track days, and daily driving.
+1. The adjustables are solid. Many m3 owners upgrade to them as they allow you to dial more camber (I know they are toe arms).

I would think modifying a subframe to accommodate m3 toe arms and the price or the m3 toe arms would cost more than the adjustables and be a lot more work.

That being said- if anyone wants to tackle modifying their subframes, I have a set of m3 toe arms for sale off of a 2012 m3. Pm me.
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      11-21-2013, 09:32 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
+1. The adjustables are solid. Many m3 owners upgrade to them as they allow you to dial more camber (I know they are toe arms).

I would think modifying a subframe to accommodate m3 toe arms and the price or the m3 toe arms would cost more than the adjustables and be a lot more work.

That being said- if anyone wants to tackle modifying their subframes, I have a set of m3 toe arms for sale off of a 2012 m3. Pm me.
Would you mind measuring them for me? I'm just curious as to exactly how much shorter they are than non-M arms. If you're paying someone else to do the modifying, then yes it would cost more. I've had mixed experiences with spherical bearing joints, so I'm leery. If the adjustable arms are reliable and not a big increase to NVH, then maybe they are the best answer.
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      11-21-2013, 09:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwawuz02
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
+1. The adjustables are solid. Many m3 owners upgrade to them as they allow you to dial more camber (I know they are toe arms).

I would think modifying a subframe to accommodate m3 toe arms and the price or the m3 toe arms would cost more than the adjustables and be a lot more work.

That being said- if anyone wants to tackle modifying their subframes, I have a set of m3 toe arms for sale off of a 2012 m3. Pm me.
Would you mind measuring them for me? I'm just curious as to exactly how much shorter they are than non-M arms. If you're paying someone else to do the modifying, then yes it would cost more. I've had mixed experiences with spherical bearing joints, so I'm leery. If the adjustable arms are reliable and not a big increase to NVH, then maybe they are the best answer.
I've gone through all of this with my M3 rear end conversion.

The stock 135i rear toe arms are 16.5" from bolt to bolt. The M3 rear toe arms are 14.7" from bolt to bolt.

I could not use either of them in my application. This is because with the toe arm mounting point on the M3 subframe is closer to the hub than on the stock subframe. It will fit with M3 hubs but I am using my 135i hubs and therefore they are too short, resulting in an incurable 10mm toe out. The stock arms are way too long and will not even fit.

I purchased some RE M3 adjustable toe arms from HPA which should hopefully solve the problem. If you are using a stock 135i subframe and hubs you will need to get adjustable non-M rear toe arms which are longer than the M versions. I believe RE, Megan Racing and Dinan all sell them.
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      11-22-2013, 09:23 AM   #10
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Thanks froop!
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