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      05-24-2013, 10:57 PM   #1
JZWBMW
 
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Road Racing The Bmw 135i

I had a fun time feeling out my BMW 135i today at HighPlains Raceway in Denver Colorado. The car has a lot of power with my tuned stg 3 set up and I could even pull on Porsche twin turbo 911's in the straights. I was at the limit of my Hankook PS3 tires and I got brake fade after about 12-15 minutes each session.

I plan to put some racing brake fluid and try some new pads as well to help the braking problem. My oil temps did run close to 270F most of the time, but I never went into limp mode. I was very happy overall with the car and now I want to make a few more changes to make it more consistent.

I had a great time running with my buddy and his supercharged Lotus, will post that video later. He could get me in the corners and I would catch up in the straights :-)

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      05-25-2013, 01:34 AM   #2
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Chase that Supercharged Lotus !

Here is the shake down run for the BMW 135i, trying to chase down my buddy in his 1900lb supercharged Lotus, had the power in the straights, but my brakes were fading and the tires were at the limit. I think I would a good bit quicker with new brake pads and fluid and some better tires.

Had fun chasing him down as well as some other cars in the mix. I am running some Hankook PS3 tires now, let me know if anyone has an idea for a better street/strip tire, not a full on race tire yet :-)

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      05-25-2013, 08:02 AM   #3
jordantii
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Whats with the hands at 11 and 1? Who taught you to drive with your hands like that?
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      05-25-2013, 09:34 AM   #4
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I did notice the very tight grip. In your defense you seem like a taller guy for the 1er.

Lower the go pro so I can see out the front window <,<
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      05-25-2013, 12:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordantii View Post
Whats with the hands at 11 and 1? Who taught you to drive with your hands like that?

Long sweeper and bad back mainly... Its what keeps my back from giving me trouble in those long corners :-)

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      05-25-2013, 01:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula M View Post
Thnx for sharing the video...

Some criticism: Plz take a road handling coarse, your driver mechanics are way off. Seems like you holding on the steering wheel for leverage. Are you even wearing a seatbelt?

Been through many events, been racing a long time, its what feels comfortable, its not like I am pushing it to the very limit or anything...

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      05-25-2013, 01:43 PM   #7
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Oh, I didn't realize you were racing...
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      05-25-2013, 02:13 PM   #8
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Knowing what to do and doing it are two different things :-) I really should work on my technique a little more, I like being the rebel sometimes :-)

Anyway, does anyone have any pad advice. I have some of my ATE Racing blue brake fluid, just going over the pad selection. Many really seem to like the Pagid Rs 29 or 19 series brake pads, but it looks like they might only fit the upgraded stoptech brake kit.

They offer some Hawk DTC 60 or 70 series pads. I want to get that part of the problem resolved first before I move onto some of the other issues with tires and understeer.

Anyone have a recommendation for a good track pad ?

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      05-25-2013, 06:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Anyone have a recommendation for a good track pad ?
I have used Hawk HPS to good effect on mostly street-driven cars that see an occasional track day. Try those first, they are a great, low-dust pad.

If you still get fade, time to go to Hawk Black, which are not acceptable for driving on the street, but are awesome pads.

You most likely do not need the DTC pads as they are designed for full-on racing where you will need to out-brake your opponents and will be trail-braking on most corners.

Make sure you *bed* your pads, especially before a track day. This is critical.

As for your hands, I won't criticize but one thing I learned from Danny Popp at an Evo school was to keep an 'index' of the wheel; some people even put a little piece of white tape around the wheel at 12-oclock. Very good for being able to see out of your peripheral vision when using lots of steering inputs.
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Last edited by tuj; 05-25-2013 at 06:51 PM.
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      05-25-2013, 10:20 PM   #10
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Seems like you're not interested in any advice, but I'll add my $0.02 anyway...

You are way too tense and really should work on fixing your hand position. Maybe by a CG-Lock to keep you in the seat better so you can try to relax. I watched your long video and saw you shake out your arm about 7/8 mins in - I'm sure it got sore from all the tensing.

I'd also maybe try to clean-up your line a little bit. It looks & sounds like you are overwhelming your fronts on almost every turn and are causing under-steer. On exit, you're not un-winding your steering wheel soon enough and are already applying throttle, causing you to over-steer out of many of the turns.

You caught up on him on power, but look how much cleaner that 944 is coming out of the hairpin in front of you. Despite your vast power advantage you can't pull on him on the following straight because he exits much cleaner...

Again, I know you didn't ask for any advice, but maybe others watching your video can learn from it.
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      05-25-2013, 10:55 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by formula M View Post
No knocking ya.. just saw how tense your forearms were. Looked uncomfortable. Guess not.
Yes, I am tense in there and I know I am not technically correct, I catch crap in other forums when I race my Saab and the instructors get all over me. I was talking to my guru Porsche instructor today and was explaining just what you are saying. I use extra energy and that may be why I am getting fatigued so quickly and also how when you are muscling the car around, your body will not effect your arms and wheel as much. I did not think it was that important, but I guess its something I need to work on again.

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      05-25-2013, 10:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int2str View Post
Seems like you're not interested in any advice, but I'll add my $0.02 anyway...

You are way too tense and really should work on fixing your hand position. Maybe by a CG-Lock to keep you in the seat better so you can try to relax. I watched your long video and saw you shake out your arm about 7/8 mins in - I'm sure it got sore from all the tensing.

I'd also maybe try to clean-up your line a little bit. It looks & sounds like you are overwhelming your fronts on almost every turn and are causing under-steer. On exit, you're not un-winding your steering wheel soon enough and are already applying throttle, causing you to over-steer out of many of the turns.

You caught up on him on power, but look how much cleaner that 944 is coming out of the hairpin in front of you. Despite your vast power advantage you can't pull on him on the following straight because he exits much cleaner...

Again, I know you didn't ask for any advice, but maybe others watching your video can learn from it.
I think you are right and I need to work a little more on my line and that was the first time out ever with the car, but I did get fatigued quickly and started to not concentrate on my line as much. I did eventually catch and pass the 944, but as the other guy stated, pushing through the corners with my tires in every corner was not helping. I want to try some new rubber on the front and new pads and fluid.

I make the video for the reason of learning as much as anything else and although I think I can usually run a better line, it was not ideal in many corners for sure. Need more practice and time in the car and then I should be able to run a smoother line and get some better times.

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      05-25-2013, 11:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuj View Post
I have used Hawk HPS to good effect on mostly street-driven cars that see an occasional track day. Try those first, they are a great, low-dust pad.

If you still get fade, time to go to Hawk Black, which are not acceptable for driving on the street, but are awesome pads.

You most likely do not need the DTC pads as they are designed for full-on racing where you will need to out-brake your opponents and will be trail-braking on most corners.

Make sure you *bed* your pads, especially before a track day. This is critical.

As for your hands, I won't criticize but one thing I learned from Danny Popp at an Evo school was to keep an 'index' of the wheel; some people even put a little piece of white tape around the wheel at 12-oclock. Very good for being able to see out of your peripheral vision when using lots of steering inputs.
My guru instructor thinks I need full on race pads to run the car that hard, he feels any pad that says street/strip is not going to hold up or do the job. Can anyone confirm if there is a set of Pagid racing pads that fit our larger Brembo calipers ? From looking at the site, it seems they are only made for the older BMW M 3 4 piston calipers or the Stoptech 4 piston calipers made for our 135i cars.

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      05-26-2013, 03:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JZWBMW View Post
I think you are right and I need to work a little more on my line and that was the first time out ever with the car, but I did get fatigued quickly and started to not concentrate on my line as much. I did eventually catch and pass the 944, but as the other guy stated, pushing through the corners with my tires in every corner was not helping. I want to try some new rubber on the front and new pads and fluid.
Changing the rubber isn't going to make much difference, whatever you put on won't help until you until you address the fundamentals of your driving technique....
Please try and sort this as your priority. Not only will you be quicker, you'll not get fatigued (relax man, it's supposed to be fun) and you'll not be as hard on the car.

As for brakes, hard and short use of the brakes makes the biggest difference. Too many people stay on the brakes for too long which usually causes most overheating and pad fade, but I've seen 'track' pads in an otherwise OEM 135 giving up the ghost after 10min+ track sessions.
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      05-26-2013, 03:04 PM   #15
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Changing the rubber isn't going to make much difference, whatever you put on won't help until you until you address the fundamentals of your driving technique
As Bwob from the Miata forum once said (the guy who basically 'invented' the Miata concept): "if you can't go fast with 90hp, 900 won't help."

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      05-26-2013, 03:38 PM   #16
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Not sure I agree with that too much, tires always help, I went a full 3 seconds faster with good rubber on my Saab 9k road race car. I know I was not perfect on my lines and all that, but I was just starting to feel the car out and was having fun with the RWD and the limits of traction with my 420whp :-)

I know there is some time to be made up with my lines, I can definitely work on that for sure, but I was just getting a feel for the car to see what the limits were and how the car felt on the track. That was the first 5 laps on the car with me as the new driver and I quickly found some limitations. I had bad under steer in the corners with the current front rubber and the brakes only lasted 12 minutes before complete loss do to the fluid boiling.

Once I can get some new racing fluid and better rubber on the front, I think I can drive long enough to get comfortable with the car on the track and start to work on my lines and being smooth and even some wheel technique.

I am not claiming it was perfectly smooth and textbook technique, just showing the first time out with my new RWD car with my new custom tuned software that makes a lot of power. I had a great time feeling the car out and learning the limitations of the stock set up. There was not much I could find on this kind of thing, so I thought I would post it up.

I will make some changes and make a new video with some technically correct lines and wheel work and compare lap times from these few runs to the new set up with a more textbook approach. I do think that working on my wheel technique will at the very least keep me from getting fatigued so quickly and that should help me to concentrate on my lines more and in the end, pick up some speed on the track. I thought the car was very fast and it sure seemed to impress quite a few people at the track, I just need to fine tune my technique and work more on my lines. I had planned on doing that after I got a good feel for the car, but the loss of brakes put an end to that quickly.

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      05-26-2013, 04:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
Changing the rubber isn't going to make much difference, whatever you put on won't help until you until you address the fundamentals of your driving technique....
Please try and sort this as your priority. Not only will you be quicker, you'll not get fatigued (relax man, it's supposed to be fun) and you'll not be as hard on the car.

As for brakes, hard and short use of the brakes makes the biggest difference. Too many people stay on the brakes for too long which usually causes most overheating and pad fade, but I've seen 'track' pads in an otherwise OEM 135 giving up the ghost after 10min+ track sessions.
I was testing for the first time at the track in a while and the first time in the 135i, found what everyone else says about the 135i in stock form. The car pushes in the corners and the stock brakes will fade.

I had bad wear on the front OEM rubber and even some chunks coming out, the brake pads changed color and some junks were coming out of that too and then I boiled the fluid. Once I put on some better front tires, going to go to a 225 40 18 to match my larger 255 35 18 in the back and then some deceent pads and better brake fluid. Should help quite a bit and then I can work on lines and technique a little more :-)

From my research, they say the stock 135i is ok, but if you want to track the car, you really need front camber plates, better brakes and LSD in the rear and then its a fairly decent track car. They even make better caliper pistons and seals that will end up cracking under track use with the stock Brembo calipers. Will try new pads and fluid first.

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