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      06-17-2013, 08:26 PM   #1
Shooto82
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Spec clutch or master clutch on 1M

Trying to find the best clutch upgrade on my 1m. My car is tuned and adds extra 130nm and this what was recommended by both companies
- spec stage +2 with steel flywheel kit
- master clutch fx300 with steel flywheel kit

Any recommendation which to go for??
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      06-17-2013, 08:31 PM   #2
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I'm assuming you're referring to the Clutch Masters clutch, and if so, I'd go with that...

I've had nothing but problems with spec's customer service after a premature failure.
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      06-18-2013, 12:36 AM   #3
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Its hard to beat Clutchmasters reliability and reputation.
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      06-18-2013, 07:29 AM   #4
Shooto82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
Its hard to beat Clutchmasters reliability and reputation.
I'm looking for the full kit clutch and steel flywheels. Is clutch masters still the better option as a full kit.
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      06-18-2013, 09:39 AM   #5
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I can't comment on their flywheels, sorry.
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      06-19-2013, 10:53 AM   #6
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We have done multiple Spec clutch installs at our facility on 335's and we recently just did one on an E92 M3. Every single customer has left happy. The best choice with a flywheel would be the Spec Stage3+ with steel flywheel.

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      06-19-2013, 12:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerformanceRaceSolutions View Post
We have done multiple Spec clutch installs at our facility on 335's and we recently just did one on an E92 M3. Every single customer has left happy. The best choice with a flywheel would be the Spec Stage3+ with steel flywheel.

I took look at spec and I still didn't make my mind to choose stage 2+ or 3+. Was told by spec that 3+ is the flagship but will compromise the smoothness of engagement in 2+. My 1m is my daily use car, and with the tuned on it it makes around 630 to 650nm. Based on that spec recommended me 2+ or I can still go for 3+.
What do u recommend ?
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      06-19-2013, 01:06 PM   #8
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You really can't go wrong with either. Personally I did not notice a big difference between the 2 setups that we have installed and the smoothness with engagement is not completely taken away in the 3+. It is definitely a setup you can daily drive with no issues.
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      06-19-2013, 10:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerformanceRaceSolutions View Post
You really can't go wrong with either. Personally I did not notice a big difference between the 2 setups that we have installed and the smoothness with engagement is not completely taken away in the 3+. It is definitely a setup you can daily drive with no issues.
I'm running a Stage 2+ with steel fly on my 1M.

My only issue -- a relatively minor one -- is that the engagement point is a bit higher than stock.

Neil
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      07-28-2013, 11:09 AM   #10
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Im currently running the full evolve Stage 3 tune and have recently noticed that im struggling to engage third mostly on down shift, but also wen going from 2nd to 3rd. Its mostly a notchy feel. All the other gears engage smoothly.

IS this the first sign that the clutch could be going?Would a gearbox oil change help. The car has covered about 11500miles and around 7000miles on this tune.

So with 415bhp and around 480ft/lbs tourque what would be the clutch to go for, if i have to?

Any help would be appreciated

David
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      07-29-2013, 12:17 PM   #11
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That doesn't sound like a clutch disc problem. The limiting factor with a clutch is how well it grabs hold of the pressure plate and flywheel surfaces. When the disc starts to wear out or glaze over or whatever the issue may be the result is a slipping action. It's usually pretty noticeable in that the car will rev but forward momentum doesn't increase for a second or two. Like you shift from 2nd to 3rd and the rpms zing up but the car doesn't accelerate. Usually it will then grab and accelerate. What you are describing sounds more like a tranny issue.
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      07-29-2013, 05:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerformanceRaceSolutions View Post
We have done multiple Spec clutch installs at our facility on 335's and we recently just did one on an E92 M3. Every single customer has left happy. The best choice with a flywheel would be the Spec Stage3+ with steel flywheel.


Leaving happy is one thing... did they return is another.....
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      07-29-2013, 07:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Leaving happy is one thing... did they return is another.....
They did indeed return a few weeks later for an oil cooler upgrade!
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      08-05-2013, 04:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerformanceRaceSolutions View Post
We have done multiple Spec clutch installs at our facility on 335's and we recently just did one on an E92 M3. Every single customer has left happy. The best choice with a flywheel would be the Spec Stage3+ with steel flywheel.

If I want to use the stock flywheel is it still the best choice to get the Spec st.3+?
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      08-30-2013, 12:50 PM   #15
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On the topic of clutch replacement, is it universally accepted you should always replace the flywheel? I know it can be resurfaced too but what is preferred? Can anyone shed light on pro/cons of new steel flywheel? Thanks
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      09-17-2013, 03:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarJunkie View Post
Its hard to beat Clutchmasters reliability and reputation.
+1
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      09-18-2013, 07:08 AM   #17
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Hi,

I've tuned mine @ PPE here in belgium. Car was already delivering an amazing 600nm torque so after upgrade it is almost 640.
Original clutch couldn't sustain that power but an other problem is also the CDV which is really a big problem. Giving all the power to a non-fully engaged disc is a big problem.

So i've choosen a Sachs Performance clutch kit with a CDV removal.
The feeling of the car is more responsive while gearing up or down. This is really more direct on the lock stage of the disc.
On the pedal the feeling is really race oriented. Mean that first 75% of the pedal course is unusefull. Everything occur on the 25% last one. Where you can feel a much harder pression. But disengage/engage is clearly more firm, fast and can be controlled with a very short leg movement. Really exciting while playing heel-and-toe with the other foot.

Don't forget to keep this in mind: driving a car with such a clutch upgrade is a real deal on open road, on track, for real driving pleasure but in traffic jam you'll need a lot of power in the left leg/foot to keep the clutch open. So as soon as this is possible i shift to neutral and release the clutch pedal to get some rest.

Finally, in term of pleasure and feeling this is a BIG difference. You really feel that this car is not more intended for everybody, you really have something amazing in your hand, more amazing than just before the upgrade where power and drifts is already not to put in everyone hands.

Hope this can help some of you, in the US or in Europa.

ps: Thanks to Stef. from Power Plus Engineering for all the tunes already done on the car. ECU (PPE Tune), brake lines (Goodridge), brake pads (Pagid), clutch kit (Sachs Performance).

Last edited by xavierbest; 09-19-2013 at 01:55 AM.
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      09-18-2013, 12:25 PM   #18
rad doc
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Did you change the flywheel or leave stock?
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      09-18-2013, 02:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xavierbest View Post
Hi,

I've tuned mine @ PPE here in belgium. Car was already delivering an amazing 600nm torque so after upgrade it is almost 640.
Original clutch couldn't sustain that power but an other problem is also the CDV which is really a big problem. Giving all the power to a non-fully engaged disc is a big problem.

So i've choosen a Sachs Performance clutch kit with a CDV removal.
The feeling of the car is more responsive while gearing up or down. This is really more direct on the lock stage of the disc.
On the pedal the feeling is really race oriented. Mean that first 75% of the pedal course is unusefull. Everything occur on the 25% last one. Where you can feel a much harder pression. But disengage/engage is clearly more firm, fast and can be controlled with a very short leg movement. Really exciting while playing heel-and-toe with the other foot.

Don't forget to keep this in mind: driving a car with such a clutch upgrade is a real deal on open road, on track, for real drinving pleasure but in traffic jam you'll need a lot of power in the left leg/foot to keep the clutch open. So as soon as this is possible i shift to neutral and release the clutch pedal to get some rest.

Finally, in term of pleasure and feeling this is a BIG difference. You really feel that this car is not more intended for everybody, you really have something amazing in your hand, more amazing than just before the upgrade where power and drifts is already not to put in everyone hands.

Hope this can help some of you, in the US or in Europa.

ps: Thanks to Stef. from Power Plus Engineering for all the tunes already done on the car. ECU (PPE Tune), brake lines (Goodridge), brake pads (Pagid), clutch kit (Sachs Performance).
Hi, good write up.

Do you mean that your 1M was making 600 nm before any power tune? That is too much for stock 1M numbers, I think reality is more like 550 to 560 nm for a stock car from all we have seen so far.
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      09-18-2013, 11:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xavierbest View Post
Hi,

I've tuned mine @ PPE here in belgium. Car was already delivering an amazing 600nm torque so after upgrade it is almost 640.
Original clutch couldn't sustain that power but an other problem is also the CDV which is really a big problem. Giving all the power to a non-fully engaged disc is a big problem.

So i've choosen a Sachs Performance clutch kit with a CDV removal.
The feeling of the car is more responsive while gearing up or down. This is really more direct on the lock stage of the disc.
On the pedal the feeling is really race oriented. Mean that first 75% of the pedal course is unusefull. Everything occur on the 25% last one. Where you can feel a much harder pression. But disengage/engage is clearly more firm, fast and can be controlled with a very short leg movement. Really exciting while playing heel-and-toe with the other foot.

Don't forget to keep this in mind: driving a car with such a clutch upgrade is a real deal on open road, on track, for real drinving pleasure but in traffic jam you'll need a lot of power in the left leg/foot to keep the clutch open. So as soon as this is possible i shift to neutral and release the clutch pedal to get some rest.

Finally, in term of pleasure and feeling this is a BIG difference. You really feel that this car is not more intended for everybody, you really have something amazing in your hand, more amazing than just before the upgrade where power and drifts is already not to put in everyone hands.

Hope this can help some of you, in the US or in Europa.

ps: Thanks to Stef. from Power Plus Engineering for all the tunes already done on the car. ECU (PPE Tune), brake lines (Goodridge), brake pads (Pagid), clutch kit (Sachs Performance).
+1 to sach performance.


Great write up xavier! i'm on the Sach Performance too.. its great, a little on the heavier side but still manageable for daily use (btw i daily drive my 1M and get stuck in traffic every single morning)

However, just some question for xavier, does your car vibrate a little when moving off first gear from a stand still position? cause mine does so i'm not sure if it's normal (or not).

Also, during the installation process my mechanic was nice enough to explain to me that the stock clutch uses the SAC (Self Adjusting Clutch) design, which explains why our clutches start slipping and burn out so quickly. So the Sach performance clutch is more "less advanced" in design and technology, but better.
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      09-19-2013, 01:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rad doc View Post
Did you change the flywheel or leave stock?
Actually Stock

The risk by changing the flywheel is to make car really undrivable on open road.
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      09-19-2013, 01:46 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
Hi, good write up.

Do you mean that your 1M was making 600 nm before any power tune? That is too much for stock 1M numbers, I think reality is more like 550 to 560 nm for a stock car from all we have seen so far.
You're right it's a lot of torque but effectively it was BEFORE any tune.
We were very surprised, but it was a great news!
I have to mention that i'm driving everyday with a 320D and a 330D. I everytime use all the torque in the low range and shift quickly.
I've learn my 1M to react like this in sport mode. Pushing very hard from the low low revs to the middle. Like to hear this "PSSSHTT" when gearing up while the turbos are whistling.
So on the DYNO test, before the tune, i've got 600Nm but only 336 HP.
You have to know that the ECU of the 1M is a learning module (like the M3 E9x). This one study the way you react and then adapt the curves to your driving profile.
So, always using the car in the range 1300/3000 but with the throttle full open lead me to this great 600Nm. If you drive in high rev, full open, your car will deliver more HP but less torque.
The ECU adapt this by always checking you driving profile but this mean that you can change it, it's not locked. Take the car, drive it like hell, fast and furious and she will be agressive in high revs. Drive it like a truck, with all the torque as you can and the ECU will give you all he can too, giving the preference to push hard in place of reving faster.

That's really a big deal on the 1M.
Most of the M3 drived everyday in city does not deliver their 420 HP, only because the engine never revs to the limits so the ECU think "why giving him the power and purge the tank? Just 380 Hp is ok for this guy huh"

So what you have seen about all the other cars, 550-560 nm, is not "technical standard" value but more a "driving profile standard" value.
All our cars will deliver the power/torque the driver need, ask. Not the power your brain think you have...

Last edited by xavierbest; 09-19-2013 at 02:47 AM.
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