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      07-04-2013, 06:24 AM   #1
Artemis
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1M versus M2: the benefits of the impromptu factor

The BMW M division can royally take its time to conceive the M2. Only (very) few information is known to date. Nevertheless some considerations as to the concept itself.

Undoubtedly the M2 will be a great car, but hopefully the large time window, large budget and mass production purpose, does not result into a conceptually "overproduced" (read: overly fine-tuned) design/concept. The complaint you sometimes hear about some Porsche cars: it is simply too perfect, flawless. The magic trick is to capture some sort of 'soul' or 'spirit' into the car that excites, offering you (the perception of) a great driving experience, the idea of an excellent "nexus" between car and driver.

But, for sure, BMW learned from the E46 M3 CSL and 1M experiences: also for commercial and image reasons, it definitely is worth to produce a special, (even) more staunch looking, version of an M car, and sell it in limited numbers. So it might be worth not jumping on the M2 boat straightaway, but to hold out for the M2 CSL ("2-Series M Coupé CSL" ? ). The latter might be the one to really look out for, for eventually getting (over)awed.

Check the enthusiasm at the dealership when you bring this rare bird (1M) in for maintenance. Guess who's the favorite/pet of the classroom most (if not all) techs/mechanics and managers want to treat ? So there is undoubtedly something special about the 1M, also amongst those in the know, some sort of aura/halo, that makes it a league of its own. Time will tell if BMW M can achieve to capture the same sort of magic with(in) the M2, or special versions of the M2. Some 1M pixie dust might be helpful.

Actually, from hindsight, the time and budget constraints turned out to be a blessing for the 1M. It ended up semi-raw - say "saignant" instead of "à point". There simply was no time and money enough ...to spoil it (softening and toning down its fairly spectacular aspects).

Or how an impromptu performance by the BMW M division resulted into a master piece, an instant classic, a motoring marvel that has set a new benchmark within its class. Let Dr. Kay Segler take off his helmet again and say "M2: now it's your turn".
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Last edited by Artemis; 07-04-2013 at 10:42 AM. Reason: "saignant" instead of "seignant" :)
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      07-04-2013, 07:10 AM   #2
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nicely said
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      07-04-2013, 07:55 AM   #3
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So what are you saying, that BMW should think long and carefully and plan their next "impromptu masterpiece"?
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      07-04-2013, 07:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Actually, from hindsight, the time and budget constraints turned out to be a blessing for the 1M. It ended up semi-raw - say "seignant" instead of "à point". There simply was no time and money enough ...to spoil it (softening and toning down its fairly spectacular aspects).
my translation, they didn't have money for the non-car people at bmw to ruin the car. I hope they can observe and repeat!

This article reminds of the book "car guys vs bean counters"
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      07-04-2013, 09:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian///M View Post
nicely said
+1


M2 Concept:
http://www.supercars.net/cars/4788.html




Back to the future the Bavarian way

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      07-04-2013, 10:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post

......So it might be worth not jumping on the M2 boat straightaway, but to hold out for the M2 CSL ("2-Series M Coupé CSL" ? ). The latter might be the one to really look out for, for eventually getting (over)awed.
............

Actually, from hindsight, the time and budget constraints turned out to be a blessing for the 1M. It ended up semi-raw - say "seignant" instead of "à point". There simply was no time and money enough ...to spoil it (softening and toning down its fairly spectacular aspects).
Exactly! My favourite quotes are above. If produced, and if produced with the same spirit and enthusiasm M division guys had for the 1M, the M2 CSL down the road will cure quite possible downsides of future M2/M3/M4 all together and will in fact help the sales of non-CSL versions of those cars. Win-win
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      07-04-2013, 11:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
produced with the same spirit and enthusiasm M division guys had for the 1M
Pro memoria about how some pretty wild ideas, conceived by creative minds who love their jobs, got shaped/materialized in a record time into some sort of 'love child' while the boss was away on a trip ...rather unexpectedly were given a serious chance of survival. Kudos to the ones who came up with the "Let's break some rules and do something wild !" initiative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hlmiii View Post
One - the final concept, "formal" design and engineering of the 1M took place in only two weeks. It was spoken about loosely, informally and very quietly among the staff for a while. At the end of that time the head of "M" was away on a two-week trip and the staff put everything together, like kids doing something while the parents are out; they knew that they could not get approval for spending the time and effort. Upon his return he was shown a completed project. Since the development portion was essentially complete with no cost incurred, the car could be easily built by shoehorning it into the 128/135 production line during off hours, and the staff was so enthusiastic, the 1M was greenlighted. The staff basically pulled off a parlor trick and won.
Second - there was only one prototype built. Due to the advance and virtually complete initial work (with existent and proven M3 parts) and the tight schedule, there was time and money to use only one car for assembly and testing. That's pretty amazing.
Third - the test car was ... blue. But early on the staff realized the color didn't work. Hence the black, white and VO, as noted.
Four - the staff was really under the gun on the entire project, for both money and time reasons.
Five - they really like how their tuner project turned out.
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Dr. Segler was emotional and had a few tears the first time he saw the car in completed form. In a broken voice, he said, «we need to build this car».
More development trivia in the 1M history sticky: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=841751
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      07-04-2013, 02:42 PM   #8
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I agree. I think many people are just assuming the M2 will be the next coming of the 1M because its the "entry level" M under the M3.

I see no indication that BMW wont water down the M2 for mass appeal. I see the relation of M2:2 being along the lines of M3:3. Im not saying the M3 is a 335, I understand M engineering and how different of a car it really is underneath the skin. I just think they tone down the aesthetics for mass marketing.
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      07-04-2013, 03:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Hops128i View Post
my translation, they didn't have money for the non-car people at bmw to ruin the car. I hope they can observe and repeat!

This article reminds of the book "car guys vs bean counters"

I just saw the new 435i configurator and if you select M-Sport package, you are forced to take NAV with touchpad. Now I know many here consider that a performance option....I don't. It takes away from the driving experience IMO. What worries me is this type of lameness from BMW which I'm worried will creep into the M2. I am withholding judgement, but I have a baaaaaaaaad feeling. Since those of us that like our sports cars raw are in the minority, BMW caters to the majority which want super fast rolling couch arcades.

This will only heighten the stripper 1Ms future desirability especially since only 10-15% were low option cars.
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      07-04-2013, 05:54 PM   #10
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M2 should be an interesting car for sure. I think partly the reason behind the 1M being a success is due to the fact that the 135i was a great car to start with then was further enhanced with parts from another great car, the E92 M3.
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      07-04-2013, 06:21 PM   #11
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The M2 is a tricky one for BMW. They need to make it better than the M135/235, but significantly less competitive against the new M3/4. Their approach may be to create a 4 cylinder M2 with watered down electronic wizardry of the M3/4, yet more track ability than the M135/235. It is a narrow marketing window.
M2 sure to be more refined than the 1Ms 'pitbull without a leash' appeal.
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      07-04-2013, 09:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Since those of us that like our sports cars raw are in the minority, BMW caters to the majority which want super fast rolling couch arcades.
I heard the 1M was born at BMWCCA Octoberfest in Atlanta a few years ago when club members sat down with some brass from BMW and lamented the fact that there were no more real driver's cars like the 2002tii or E30 M3 coming out of the factory.
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      07-04-2013, 10:00 PM   #13
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M2 vs 1M = Mass Produced multi year production vs 1 year production (USA)

BMW almost always offers changes during the production cycle of the M cars that make waiting for the later year cars worthwhile.
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      07-04-2013, 10:11 PM   #14
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in my opinion, the M2 will most likely be a 4cyl twin scroll turbo, something to compare to what's in the new A/CLA45 AMG.

This will give the M2 a small and light package while creating a gap between the new M3/4 with the 6cyl.

I really hope the M2 will be as good of a car as the 1M, i will be on the waiting list if that's the case. However with the new series of BMW such as the F30, they have grown too much in fat and the interior has gone cheap in the quality aspect, so i'm not positive if the new generation of BMW will be as good
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      07-05-2013, 09:16 AM   #15
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in my opinion, the M2 will most likely be a 4cyl twin scroll turbo, something to compare to what's in the new A/CLA45 AMG.
This will give the M2 a small and light package while creating a gap between the new M3/4 with the 6cyl.
Mark my words: the M2 will get a 4 cylinder layout. Confirmed in the the Summer of 2010 that the M Division was already working on the engine (without having a 2-Series available). Forthcoming M3 is rumored to be based on the N55 (insofar that info is not outdated in the meantime).
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      07-05-2013, 09:34 AM   #16
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M2 could be a great car, but priced @ around 60-65K I am sure many 1M owners who sell now will regret later, just look at 435 prices...
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      07-05-2013, 09:50 AM   #17
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The M2 is a tricky one for BMW. They need to make it better than the M135/235, but significantly less competitive against the new M3/4. Their approach may be to create a 4 cylinder M2 with watered down electronic wizardry of the M3/4, yet more track ability than the M135/235. It is a narrow marketing window.
M2 sure to be more refined than the 1Ms 'pitbull without a leash' appeal.

Don't agree with this at all. This kind of thinking led BMW to FAIL with the E46 by not bringing out a foor door version as they did with the E36. Clearly they realized the error of their ways too late and cobbled togther the E46 ZHP and then they made a 4 dr version again with the E90 M3.

The M3 does not cannibalize sales from the M5. They are different markets and are separated by pricing of about 20-30K from one base model to the other.

The 1M/M2 doesnt cannibalize sales from the M3/M4... again.. different missions/markets. one is a compact sports coupe, and the other, simply, is not... and while the pricing is only about 10-15K different (base model to base model) still not the same car. the " window" for an M2/M2 Gran Coupe is HUGE! How many people compare a ZL1 Camaro to a ZR-1 ?

The simple fact is.. BMW needs to take advantage of the market for a smaller large production model by making the 2 series a car that their dealers will market more to people. Bring out a 228 and make people drool... then sprinkle in an M235 with some added power and handling .... then add some serious M spice and make an M2 and keep it around 45K base.. ... then an M2 Gran Coupe so that all the E36 M3/4 owners can find a replacement car ..... and then later on, perhaps an M2 CSL. I just hope they don't bring out 15 variants of an M2 like they did with the E90/E92... but we shall see.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Mark my words: the M2 will get a 4 cylinder layout. Confirmed in the the Summer of 2010 that the M Division was already working on the engine (without having a 2-Series available). Forthcoming M3 is rumored to be based on the N55 (insofar that info is not outdated in the meantime).
I would love to see this... this would be exactly the differentiation I am referring to.. all the M3 fans (some will need to become M4 fans lol) can continue to have a GT vehicle that has the vaunted 6 cylinder that NEWER bmw fans think is the end all be all of BMW design. They can continue on in their ignorant bliss, disgusted with the fact that a 6 cyl motor wasnt employed in the 1M and they will wait for the M3/M4.

** Proper Enthusiasts ** will be happy with a 4 cylinder turbo motor that has a ton of useable torque, in a lighter weight vehicle that hopefully will be in a market segment with other enthusiast vehicles like the WRX/STI , Mitsu Evo and VW R32, the Subaru BRZ and the Porsche Cayman. True enthusiasts will look at the specs of the car.. weight.. wheelbase.. headroom.. legroom.. and of course engine stats and hope for a fun car that is just like the 1M.

Wouldnt it be nice to have at least one BMW model in the current lineup that owners can autocross or carve canyons with and take to the track that doesnt weigh 3500 lbs?

Come on BMW NA.. don't leave all the fun to MINI. LET'S MOTOR!
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Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 07-05-2013 at 11:04 AM.
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      07-05-2013, 03:16 PM   #18
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Don't agree with this at all. This kind of thinking led BMW to FAIL with the E46 by not bringing out a foor door version as they did with the E36. Clearly they realized the error of their ways too late and cobbled togther the E46 ZHP and then they made a 4 dr version again with the E90 M3.

The M3 does not cannibalize sales from the M5. They are different markets and are separated by pricing of about 20-30K from one base model to the other.

The 1M/M2 doesnt cannibalize sales from the M3/M4... again.. different missions/markets. one is a compact sports coupe, and the other, simply, is not... and while the pricing is only about 10-15K different (base model to base model) still not the same car. the " window" for an M2/M2 Gran Coupe is HUGE! How many people compare a ZL1 Camaro to a ZR-1 ?

The simple fact is.. BMW needs to take advantage of the market for a smaller large production model by making the 2 series a car that their dealers will market more to people. Bring out a 228 and make people drool... then sprinkle in an M235 with some added power and handling .... then add some serious M spice and make an M2 and keep it around 45K base.. ... then an M2 Gran Coupe so that all the E36 M3/4 owners can find a replacement car ..... and then later on, perhaps an M2 CSL. I just hope they don't bring out 15 variants of an M2 like they did with the E90/E92... but we shall see.
1M most certainly cannibalized the M3. I would have definitely bought an M3 if there was no 1M. The USA market may be different though.

I agree with your last paragraph though
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      07-05-2013, 04:43 PM   #19
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1M most certainly cannibalized the M3. I would have definitely bought an M3 if there was no 1M. The USA market may be different though.

I agree with your last paragraph though

What made you buy a 1M over an M3? What made you NOT buy an M3..? because the M3 was already out a long time before the 1M.... and I take it you didnt buy an M3..... but when the 1M came out you got the 1M right? Here in the US.. both cars were available at the same time... If that is the case.. it sounds like you are proving my point.. you bought a 1M because it was made available... but It doesnt sound like it kept you from buying an M3....
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      07-06-2013, 03:24 AM   #20
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Well I had a E90 M3 6MT. Compared to my ex E46 M3 it felt heavier, less alive at low revs and way too low MPG

The 1M does those things + 30% compared to the E46 M3.
Compared to the E90 M3 it's just as fast or faster, has a way better turn in , more tossable/driftable and is 50% more alive in the power range plus 20% better MPG. At least....

This is my 10th BMW and the best...



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      07-06-2013, 05:56 AM   #21
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Well I had a E90 M3 6MT. Compared to my ex E46 M3 it felt heavier, less alive at low revs and way too low MPG
The 1M does those things + 30% compared to the E46 M3.
Compared to the E90 M3 it's just as fast or faster, has a way better turn in, more tossable/driftable and is 50% more alive in the power range plus 20% better MPG. At least....
This is my 10th BMW and the best...
About the power availability in the lower rpm band. Playing between 3K-5K rpm in second gear = full power available on the fly + cool sound (especially with the Akra exhaust) whilst the speed remains rather 'acceptable' for the men in blue and other road users. With an M3 you gotta climb North of the the 5K rpm zone to achieve a similar (but not equal) result but you inevitably enter the "Loose Your Driving License" Zone in town.

Hence, IMHO the 1M offers more fun if used as daily driver.
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      07-06-2013, 06:48 AM   #22
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What made you buy a 1M over an M3? What made you NOT buy an M3..? because the M3 was already out a long time before the 1M.... and I take it you didnt buy an M3..... but when the 1M came out you got the 1M right? Here in the US.. both cars were available at the same time... If that is the case.. it sounds like you are proving my point.. you bought a 1M because it was made available... but It doesnt sound like it kept you from buying an M3....
I test drove a M3, disappointing, so kept the 135i, then bought a 1M
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