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      07-18-2013, 05:01 PM   #1
Redadair
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1M M Button explaination

There is more going on under the hood when pressing the M button than just adjusting the throttle sensitivity.

This quote was taken from the M-Power web site. Discussion about the M5 V8 engine. http://www.m-power.com/_open/b/varli...d=2723&lang=en


"By selecting the Sport or Sport plus accelerator mode, we can really feel the additional boost to the response. How does that work?

In Sport or Sport plus mode, a suitable VALVETRONIC controller and the waste gates keep the turbocharger in the higher speed range. Normally, the waste gate used to regulate the charging pressure opens so that the exhaust gas flows out with the minimum possible loss. Pressure is built up again only when I hit the accelerator. For an improved response, I leave the waste gate closed until I need it for regulating. The exhaust gas then always passes over the turbine, which then runs at a considerably higher speed. When even more power is demanded, it is immediately available. However, I have a gradually rising counterpressure that causes a slight rise in consumption. This function can therefore be switched on and off. By the way, in the BMW 1 Series M Coupé the same function is activated at the M Button"
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      07-18-2013, 05:42 PM   #2
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honestly, i don't feel any difference when going WOT with M-button on and off, only the throttle response changed.
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      07-18-2013, 05:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinity_2200 View Post
honestly, i don't feel any difference when going WOT with M-button on and off, only the throttle response changed.
It does change throttle response and wastegate operation. Especially since installing an Akra, I get more backfires when M mode activated. I doubt it gives you more power, but makes the car more responsive IMO.

I always thought that the surge felt when pressed was the throttle position adjustment, but I have logged this with the Cobb and it shows no change in the position when pressed
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      07-18-2013, 06:21 PM   #4
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the difference in the M button is rather subtle at times...

I can definitely feel a difference.. and truthfully, I do not prefer to engage the M button.... in my opinion the throttle response is WAY more sensitive.... and the boost too agressive with it on. I typically leave it off unless I am going to attack a twisty road or on ramp and want a little extra omph.

for track driving.. I normally don't use it.

For autocrossing I DEFINITELY prefer it off... on small courses, even where it should reduce lag, i find that the boost coming on stronger makes it more difficult to control rear wheel spin.

I actually drove at an autocross a week ago... it was a high speed event, with FTD in the 86 second range.

course map

http://lscbmwcca.boards.net/index.cg...#ixzz2Y0BTo7Sp

results

http://lscbmwcca.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/event-5-july-132013.pdf

course video - NOT my video- NOT me driving.. Video is for illustration only.


[u2b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Di9Y2_kf7Eg[/u2b]

For the first time... at this event... I really felt the M button actually helped. See the course map, and note the FOUR long slow speed 180 degree plus corners with a long straight afterwards... The very first severe hairpin turn to the right is depicted on the map as a 180 degree turn. In reality, it was about a 220 to 235 degree turn, taken in second gear, and the time to negotiate it definitely resulted in the car getting OFF the boost..... The final turn, shown as a 270 degree turn was a decreasing radius turn.. 180 degrees entering.. then suddenly sharply decreasing radius for the last 90 degrees and then a blast to to the finish after a quick jog left... With the M button on, the car definitely leapt out of the corner and onto the straight with more ferocity. it also showed in my lap times, which improved in the afternoon when I tried the M button on for the first time in awhile.
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Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 07-18-2013 at 06:58 PM.
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      07-18-2013, 06:21 PM   #5
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On the 1M it's just a throttle mapping which changes. Doesn't give any more power. You can feel this when going WOT. Playing with the button will make zip difference.
Hold part throttle and press the button and you'll feel a surge, just as if you'd stabbed the accelerator, ie it just gives more throttle for same pedal travel.

Sadly it doesn't really do much else and not something I use all that much at all on a daily basis.
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      07-18-2013, 06:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley1175 View Post
On the 1M it's just a throttle mapping which changes. Doesn't give any more power. You can feel this when going WOT. Playing with the button will make zip difference.
Hold part throttle and press the button and you'll feel a surge, just as if you'd stabbed the accelerator, ie it just gives more throttle for same pedal travel.

Sadly it doesn't really do much else and not something I use all that much at all on a daily basis.

the OP is correct. The wastegate is held closed. How do I know? Because a BMW M engineer told me in 2011. IN person, face to face, and yes, I am serious.

Also note the phrasing.. " When even more power is demanded, it is immediately available ". This does NOT mean that the car has more power when the M button is on.... it only indicates that the boost is more immediately available so the power comes in SOONER than if the button were not switched on.
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      07-18-2013, 06:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinity_2200 View Post
honestly, i don't feel any difference when going WOT with M-button on and off, only the throttle response changed.
Then just try this little exercise...

Pull a 3rd gear run at WOT to about 4.5K rpm, then hit hit the "M" button whilst still at WOT... You will be all
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      07-18-2013, 06:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley1175 View Post
On the 1M it's just a throttle mapping which changes. Doesn't give any more power. You can feel this when going WOT. Playing with the button will make zip difference.
Hold part throttle and press the button and you'll feel a surge, just as if you'd stabbed the accelerator, ie it just gives more throttle for same pedal travel.

Sadly it doesn't really do much else and not something I use all that much at all on a daily basis.
It doesn't sound as though you read the information from BMW? Since it describes how it changes the waste gate and not just throttle position...

In mid range operation is significantly changes the available boost available to the engine at any given point. It' pretty easy to feel this.

I use the M button 99% of the time.
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      07-18-2013, 06:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
the OP is correct. The wastegate is held closed. How do I know? Because a BMW M engineer told me in 2011. IN person, face to face, and yes, I am serious.

Also note the phrasing.. " When even more power is demanded, it is immediately available ". This does NOT mean that the car has more power when the M button is on.... it only indicates that the boost is more immediately available so the power comes in SOONER than if the button were not switched on.
+1 Guys, take a minute to read the information...
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      07-18-2013, 07:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
the OP is correct. The wastegate is held closed. How do I know? Because a BMW M engineer told me in 2011. IN person, face to face, and yes, I am serious.

Also note the phrasing.. " When even more power is demanded, it is immediately available ". This does NOT mean that the car has more power when the M button is on.... it only indicates that the boost is more immediately available so the power comes in SOONER than if the button were not switched on.
Thanks I wasn't aware of this.
So in some ways it's like an antilag device.

If the wastegate is held closed, then you should be able to build boost while getting ready to launch the car. Should be easy enough to see if you have a boost gauge.
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      07-18-2013, 07:07 PM   #11
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So does the Sport button on the 135i act in a similar way to the M button or is there more to it?
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      07-18-2013, 07:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redadair View Post
It doesn't sound as though you read the information from BMW?
Correct!
I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.
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      07-18-2013, 07:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
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So does the Sport button on the 135i act in a similar way to the M button or is there more to it?
Not at all... The engine may be shared with the 135i (early years) N54 and the Z4 but the M button is only for the 1M. As the article states, this same technology is now being used in the M5, M6 Twin Turbo V8's.

It was pioneered in the 1m since the 1M was the First M car to have a Turbo.
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      07-18-2013, 09:23 PM   #14
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[quote=M3 Adjuster;14347438]t

I actually drove at an autocross a week ago... it was a high speed event, with FTD in the 86 second range.

/QUOTE]

Your posted time was great. That list of cars was notable for the lack of E30 M3s and the lone 740i, a rare bird at an autocross.

When I did an autocross a couple of months ago at Heartland Park in Topeka, I couldn't believe how much fun the 1M was in that environment. My instructor, a nationally ranked autocrosser, was absolutely impressed with the car, even with its bone stock suspension. We came very close to eclipsing the time of another nationally ranked guy in an E30 M3 with serious autocross chops.

What I lacked in finesse was nearly made up for in the jack rabbit acceleration out of the corners. MDM is great for autocrossing and the M button, once you get used to using it, contributes greatly to the fun.
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      07-18-2013, 09:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redadair View Post
Not at all... The engine may be shared with the 135i (early years) N54 and the Z4 but the M button is only for the 1M. As the article states, this same technology is now being used in the M5, M6 Twin Turbo V8's.

It was pioneered in the 1m since the 1M was the First M car to have a Turbo.
1M came after X5M and X6M who both had turbo engines...first version of the same engine in F10 M5, but who thinks that they are M cars is another story!
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      07-18-2013, 10:13 PM   #16
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^ You are right about the X5 and X6, I must admit I don't follow these at all. None the less they were the first M engines with a turbo. However the M button technologies as mentioned here first started with the 1M.
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      07-18-2013, 10:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redadair View Post
^ You are right about the X5 and X6, I must admit I don't follow these at all. None the less they were the first M engines with a turbo. However the M button technologies as mentioned here first started with the 1M.
Can't think of X5/6M as M cars, but rather as M SUVs... a new category
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      07-19-2013, 01:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redadair View Post
There is more going on under the hood when pressing the M button than just adjusting the throttle sensitivity.

This quote was taken from the M-Power web site. Discussion about the M5 V8 engine. http://www.m-power.com/_open/b/varli...d=2723&lang=en


"By selecting the Sport or Sport plus accelerator mode, we can really feel the additional boost to the response. How does that work?

In Sport or Sport plus mode, a suitable VALVETRONIC controller and the waste gates keep the turbocharger in the higher speed range. Normally, the waste gate used to regulate the charging pressure opens so that the exhaust gas flows out with the minimum possible loss. Pressure is built up again only when I hit the accelerator. For an improved response, I leave the waste gate closed until I need it for regulating. The exhaust gas then always passes over the turbine, which then runs at a considerably higher speed. When even more power is demanded, it is immediately available. However, I have a gradually rising counterpressure that causes a slight rise in consumption. This function can therefore be switched on and off. By the way, in the BMW 1 Series M Coupé the same function is activated at the M Button"
The sport button definitely works differently on the various M models. For example, the 1M does not have Valvetronic, so it couldn't possibly work the same as the in the F10 M5. From everything I've read online and off, the 1M's 'M' button is simply a throttle remap. As others have pointed out, the only place you feel the difference is at partial throttle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
the OP is correct. The wastegate is held closed. How do I know? Because a BMW M engineer told me in 2011. IN person, face to face, and yes, I am serious.

Also note the phrasing.. " When even more power is demanded, it is immediately available ". This does NOT mean that the car has more power when the M button is on.... it only indicates that the boost is more immediately available so the power comes in SOONER than if the button were not switched on.
I've never heard of this until now. As much as I would love to have a button to close the waste-gates shut, I don't think that's the case. How can we confirm this? I'm thinking if this is true, the common waste-gate rattle would be eliminated when M mode is enabled, correct? Or maybe a clicking close sound coming from the turbochargers when the button is pressed?
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      07-19-2013, 01:48 PM   #19
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I called on a bunch of tuners to verify that the M button actually does modify wastegate behavior but nobody answered me. It should be pretty evident if you tracked the data on a dyno.
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      07-19-2013, 02:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
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The sport button definitely works differently on the various M models. For example, the 1M does not have Valvetronic, so it couldn't possibly work the same as the in the F10 M5. From everything I've read online and off, the 1M's 'M' button is simply a throttle remap. As others have pointed out, the only place you feel the difference is at partial throttle.



I've never heard of this until now. As much as I would love to have a button to close the waste-gates shut, I don't think that's the case. How can we confirm this? I'm thinking if this is true, the common waste-gate rattle would be eliminated when M mode is enabled, correct? Or maybe a clicking close sound coming from the turbochargers when the button is pressed?
Please read the link in the OP from BMW. They talk about how it works and how it apples to both the 1M and the M5...

Guys, why can't you read this stuff before trying to disprove how it works??
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      07-19-2013, 03:06 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redadair View Post
Please read the link in the OP from BMW. They talk about how it works and how it apples to both the 1M and the M5...

Guys, why can't you read this stuff before trying to disprove how it works??
I read it, not sure why you assumed I didn't.

My statement still stands, the M button does different things to the different M-cars that have it. The 2nd part of my post only poses the question on how to confirm that the waste-gate indeed does close with the button. How you took that to only be an attempt to disprove what you or the site says is beyond me.
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      07-19-2013, 03:24 PM   #22
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fizfider:

Question:

"I've never heard of this until now. As much as I would love to have a button to close the waste-gates shut, I don't think that's the case. How can we confirm this?"

Answer:

""By selecting the Sport or Sport plus accelerator mode, we can really feel the additional boost to the response. How does that work?

In Sport or Sport plus mode, a suitable VALVETRONIC controller and the waste gates keep the turbocharger in the higher speed range. Normally, the waste gate used to regulate the charging pressure opens so that the exhaust gas flows out with the minimum possible loss. Pressure is built up again only when I hit the accelerator. For an improved response, I leave the waste gate closed until I need it for regulating. The exhaust gas then always passes over the turbine, which then runs at a considerably higher speed. When even more power is demanded, it is immediately available. However, I have a gradually rising counterpressure that causes a slight rise in consumption. This function can therefore be switched on and off. By the way, in the BMW 1 Series M Coupé the same function is activated at the M Button"
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