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      10-26-2013, 10:04 AM   #1
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Nokian snow tires

on my A3 quattro I ran Dunlop Winter Sport 3Ds which were great but are more of a performance snow tire. For my 135is, I'd really like to try out Nokian snow tires as I'm a little bit nervous about driving a RWD car this winter after driving quattros for many years----and I have heard great things about Nokian tires.

anyone here use Nokian winter/snow tires here? any specific model you recommend?

I will be putting these on a set of 17" M68 wheels I picked up from an E46 Sport which are staggered 7.5 width in the front and 8.5 in the rear.

Haven't decided yet whether I'll try a square setup of 225s all around or stagger it with 215 in the front and 235 in the rear.

any suggestions on specific tires? thanks!
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      10-26-2013, 11:34 AM   #2
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Nokians are wonderful winter tires...in either studded (Hakkapeliitta 7) or non-studded (Hakkapeliitta R2) versions. Pick based on your winter conditions. In Brooklyn, you may in fact be better off with the WRG3 as you likely have more bare pavement driving than either snow or ice covered.

You'll be better off going square with your tires, but as your wheels aren't, you won't be able to rotate at all without swapping the tires around (dismount / remount).
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      10-26-2013, 02:02 PM   #3
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thanks for the info! you're right that it doesn't snow that much in NYC but when it does it's crazy. it does rain a lot. I drive a lot in the winter so i think I would choose wet/snow performance over comfort. Am leaning towards the R2s at this time as they seem unbelievable from the videos I watched.
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      10-26-2013, 02:26 PM   #4
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Winter driving for me is mostly about wet and dry roads with sub-freezing temperatures during morning and evening commutes. They lay down so much salt around here that ice doesn't stand much of a chance. During true snow/ice conditions, I'll leave the 135is in the garage and take another car.

As a result, I'm looking for better wet/dry performance during sub-freezing temps, rather than pure ice/snow performance. I had settled on the Michelin X-Ice Xi3, but wet/dry braking is by Consumer Reports as Poor, and handling as only Fair. I am now leaning towards the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4.
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      10-26-2013, 04:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
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In Brooklyn, you may in fact be better off with the WRG3 as you likely have more bare pavement driving than either snow or ice covered.
Consumer Reports agrees. This is their top-rated winter performance tire.
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      10-26-2013, 07:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by rikMsport
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In Brooklyn, you may in fact be better off with the WRG3 as you likely have more bare pavement driving than either snow or ice covered.
Consumer Reports agrees. This is their top-rated winter performance tire.
Those tests always make me laugh, as CR only tests Nokian's "all weather" tire (Nokian's parlance, as the WR series can be driven on year-round). The pure winter tires in the Hakkapeliitta range (studded 7 -- 8 in fall 2014 -- and non-studded R2) would blow the WRG3 away.
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      10-26-2013, 08:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Those tests always make me laugh, as CR only tests Nokian's "all weather" tire (Nokian's parlance, as the WR series can be driven on year-round). The pure winter tires in the Hakkapeliitta range (studded 7 -- 8 in fall 2014 -- and non-studded R2) would blow the WRG3 away.
Zip, you're right, reviews and ratings don't always tell the whole story, but often they provide important information that can help you make informed decisions to suit your personal situation.

The Hakkapeliitta R2 is a great tire (ranked 3rd), and is better than the WRG3 for pure snow and ice traction (Excellent for the R2 versus Very Good for the WRG3… probably not enough difference to merit the statement "would blow the WRG3 away"). However, the Hakkapeliitta R2 is worse for wet and dry braking (Poor), handling and noise (Fair), and hydroplaning. For folks who do not deal with snow and ice, and are willing to trade pure ice/snow traction for better performance, the WRG3 may be good choice.

Studded tires are in a class by themselves.
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      10-27-2013, 10:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikMsport View Post
Zip, you're right, reviews and ratings don't always tell the whole story, but often they provide important information that can help you make informed decisions to suit your personal situation.

The Hakkapeliitta R2 is a great tire (ranked 3rd), and is better than the WRG3 for pure snow and ice traction (Excellent for the R2 versus Very Good for the WRG3… probably not enough difference to merit the statement "would blow the WRG3 away"). However, the Hakkapeliitta R2 is worse for wet and dry braking (Poor), handling and noise (Fair), and hydroplaning. For folks who do not deal with snow and ice, and are willing to trade pure ice/snow traction for better performance, the WRG3 may be good choice.

Studded tires are in a class by themselves.

is the WRG3 a 'real' winter tire though? i don't feel very confident buying an 'all weather' tire for Winter use.....
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      10-27-2013, 12:08 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by IEDEI
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Originally Posted by rikMsport View Post
Zip, you're right, reviews and ratings don't always tell the whole story, but often they provide important information that can help you make informed decisions to suit your personal situation.

The Hakkapeliitta R2 is a great tire (ranked 3rd), and is better than the WRG3 for pure snow and ice traction (Excellent for the R2 versus Very Good for the WRG3 probably not enough difference to merit the statement "would blow the WRG3 away"). However, the Hakkapeliitta R2 is worse for wet and dry braking (Poor), handling and noise (Fair), and hydroplaning. For folks who do not deal with snow and ice, and are willing to trade pure ice/snow traction for better performance, the WRG3 may be good choice.

Studded tires are in a class by themselves.

is the WRG3 a 'real' winter tire though? i don't feel very confident buying an 'all weather' tire for Winter use.....
Yes, it is good enough to warrant the "severe service" emblem (snowflake on a mountain peak), which actually means something as opposed to a generic M&S rating by a manufacturer.
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      10-27-2013, 09:01 PM   #10
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I have Hakka 7's on my X1 and i had the same on my Subaru Impreza before that. I've gone around many a corner with all four wheels spinning! So fun. They are rock solid snow/ice tires, they will bite well and are predictable when they let go... on top of being durable. We have all sorts of crazy snow and ice in Montreal and the city does a poor job of picking it up so performance tires don't cut it imo.

I've just picked up some Hakka R2's for my 128, even though i know they might be a bit squishy and have a low speed rating compared to some other choices. Since i only do urban driving in the winter with this car, i think it's a good trade off. I've never had R2's so i can't judge them.

In any case, be aware that you won't get around corners on the dry as fast on Hakka's compared to more performance oriented winters... you need to tone it down a bit for the winter months
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      10-27-2013, 09:59 PM   #11
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I have Hakka 7's on my X1 and i had the same on my Subaru Impreza before that. I've gone around many a corner with all four wheels spinning! So fun. They are rock solid snow/ice tires, they will bite well and are predictable when they let go... on top of being durable. We have all sorts of crazy snow and ice in Montreal and the city does a poor job of picking it up so performance tires don't cut it imo.

I've just picked up some Hakka R2's for my 128, even though i know they might be a bit squishy and have a low speed rating compared to some other choices. Since i only do urban driving in the winter with this car, i think it's a good trade off. I've never had R2's so i can't judge them.

In any case, be aware that you won't get around corners on the dry as fast on Hakka's compared to more performance oriented winters... you need to tone it down a bit for the winter months
cool thanks for your input!

the reviews i've read of the Hakkapaliita R/R2s have varied from some saying that the dry/wet performance is fantastic to others saying it is fair but not brilliant. i do 120 miles a day through the winter in ALL conditions whether it is dry, rain, ice, or snow.....so i'm leaning towards the R2s just to be extra 'safe'.

Do you think that the dry/wet handling will be a major compromise?
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      10-27-2013, 10:06 PM   #12
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Yes, it is good enough to warrant the "severe service" emblem (snowflake on a mountain peak), which actually means something as opposed to a generic M&S rating by a manufacturer.
yeah clearly these tires are well above and beyond the usual 'all season' standing.....
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      10-28-2013, 10:15 AM   #13
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I run 225/40x18 Nokian WR A3 on the front of my 135i (255/35x18 TS810 WinterContacts on the rear) and the Nokians were pretty good last winter and it was a bad one as far as the weather normally is here in the UK, with almost 2 months constant below 35F and a resonable fall of snow periodically, with lots of cold wet weather either side of the snow/ice.
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      10-28-2013, 11:05 AM   #14
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is the WRG3 a 'real' winter tire though? i don't feel very confident buying an 'all weather' tire for Winter use.....
It is not a "real" winter tire, it is an "all weather" tire meant for year round use. Had a set of the WRG2 on both my Civic and smart as my intermediate tires. The traction on wet pavement was pretty bad, not sure if they fixed that with the WRG3.

Nokian makes the best winter tires, hell, they invented the category. Best traction and they last extremely long as well. Best of both worlds. Will be putting my R2's on this week.

And as for the "snowflake" rating, it actually means about as much as the M&S rating. There are no standards or tests the tire must pass, it is completely up to the tire maker if they want to put the symbol on or not.

I actually know the guy who was the spear head for the snowflake rating on tires. They have actually tested many and find many supposed "snowflake" rated tires are worse in snow than many good all-seasons. You have to do your research.

I live in Ottawa, Canada so I need the most aggressive winter tire I can get. You might be better off with something like an R2 but in 225 square set up.

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      10-29-2013, 11:27 AM   #15
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It is not a "real" winter tire, it is an "all weather" tire meant for year round use. Had a set of the WRG2 on both my Civic and smart as my intermediate tires. The traction on wet pavement was pretty bad, not sure if they fixed that with the WRG3.

Nokian makes the best winter tires, hell, they invented the category. Best traction and they last extremely long as well. Best of both worlds. Will be putting my R2's on this week.

And as for the "snowflake" rating, it actually means about as much as the M&S rating. There are no standards or tests the tire must pass, it is completely up to the tire maker if they want to put the symbol on or not.

I actually know the guy who was the spear head for the snowflake rating on tires. They have actually tested many and find many supposed "snowflake" rated tires are worse in snow than many good all-seasons. You have to do your research.

I live in Ottawa, Canada so I need the most aggressive winter tire I can get. You might be better off with something like an R2 but in 225 square set up.
i think i'm just going to go with the R2s and a square setup......OR i might do 205s in the front and 225s in the rear. not decided yet.
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      10-29-2013, 11:32 AM   #16
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I'm also going with the R2 in RunFlat for this winter in 205/50/17 as recommended by BMW. Will see how it goes.
Ottawa area as well.

On previous cars, I tried performance oriented winter tires such as the Michelin Alpin PA3. They were good on cold pavement and on ice, but on snow, they were just as bad as any summer tires. The design of the winter performance oriented tire does not allow for good snow evacuation. Compare any of your performance winter tires to a Blizzak WS-70 thread design, it's self explanatory.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
It is not a "real" winter tire, it is an "all weather" tire meant for year round use. Had a set of the WRG2 on both my Civic and smart as my intermediate tires. The traction on wet pavement was pretty bad, not sure if they fixed that with the WRG3.

Nokian makes the best winter tires, hell, they invented the category. Best traction and they last extremely long as well. Best of both worlds. Will be putting my R2's on this week.

And as for the "snowflake" rating, it actually means about as much as the M&S rating. There are no standards or tests the tire must pass, it is completely up to the tire maker if they want to put the symbol on or not.

I actually know the guy who was the spear head for the snowflake rating on tires. They have actually tested many and find many supposed "snowflake" rated tires are worse in snow than many good all-seasons. You have to do your research.

I live in Ottawa, Canada so I need the most aggressive winter tire I can get. You might be better off with something like an R2 but in 225 square set up.
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      10-31-2013, 09:26 PM   #17
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cool thanks for your input!

the reviews i've read of the Hakkapaliita R/R2s have varied from some saying that the dry/wet performance is fantastic to others saying it is fair but not brilliant. i do 120 miles a day through the winter in ALL conditions whether it is dry, rain, ice, or snow.....so i'm leaning towards the R2s just to be extra 'safe'.

Do you think that the dry/wet handling will be a major compromise?
They will feel squishier than a performance winter tire but it's not anything scary. Can't say for sure for the R2's since i haven't driven on they yet but the 7's on the X1 handle fine (about same power as my 128 but a lot heavier). Never had an "oh shit" moment so far on dry or wet cold pavement.
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      11-02-2013, 08:12 AM   #18
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thanks for the input everyone. I'm actually having a fair bit of difficulty even finding R2s for sale in NYC or Long Island.....I called Mavis Tire and spoke to a guy who has sold tires for 42 years and he said "I've never heard of Nokian"....I LOLd and told him they basically invented the Snow tire. he said he'd google it when he got home....lol
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      11-02-2013, 09:17 AM   #19
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thanks for the input everyone. I'm actually having a fair bit of difficulty even finding R2s for sale in NYC or Long Island
I also found a huge gap between identifying tires I was interested in and actually finding them for sale locally. I ended up at Tire Rack…

Quote:
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I called Mavis Tire and spoke to a guy who has sold tires for 42 years and he said "I've never heard of Nokian"...
He probably buys his 'dress up' clothes at Walmart. Reminds me of the "Vodafone? I've never heard of it…" reaction I used to get when shopping for cell phone covers or accessories in the US.
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      11-02-2013, 09:45 AM   #20
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I was interested in and actually finding them for sale locally. I ended up at Tire Rack…
i wanted to find them locally so they could mount them on the M68 wheels i already have.....but i suppose another option could be to buy them online and have them mailed directly to a shop that can mount them for me.
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      11-02-2013, 11:43 AM   #21
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I'm actually having a fair bit of difficulty even finding R2s for sale in NYC or Long Island.
Quote:
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I also found a huge gap between identifying tires I was interested in and actually finding them for sale locally. I ended up at Tire Rack…
Should be an easy find via Nokian's website: http://www.nokiantires.com/dealer-locator
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      11-07-2013, 09:26 AM   #22
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ordered the Hakkapaliita R2s for my 120 mile a day commute. decided to go hardcore for my first winter ever in a RWD setup. 225s all around on 17" M68 wheels
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