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      10-27-2013, 08:11 AM   #1
dcaron9999
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Thoughts on spacers for dual purpose 135i

Thinking about BMS or Stance Tek wheel spacers for 2011 135i.

Ive reduced my camber to -3.2* in the front, and -1.8* in the rear.

Im using Ground Control Street camber plates in the front, M3 front control arms. Im still on stock sport suspension.

I have stock front wheels Style 261 with larger tire than OEM (225/40R18 versus 215/40R18).

BMW Style 261 wheels: 7,5x18 front ET 49, 8,5x18 rear ET 52.

The top of my front wheel is deep inside my fender, which gives my 135i a weird look and stance.

Im also considering getting dedicated track wheels, and use BMW SUV 18x8.5 wheels with offsets in the mid 40's eventually, with hopefully the same spacers.

Im concerned about useage at the track (are they safe), and rubbing issues .

Do you think wider track up on stock suspension with 15mm front and 12mm rear make sense?

I don’t think I will ever lower the car, but I do have M sports package.

Id like to hear your recommendatiuons, and place an order soon.
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      10-27-2013, 12:07 PM   #2
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When you widen your track like that in the front (i.e. with spacers) you increase the scrub radius, which may hurt steering feel and handling overall. I'm not sure how bad it would be on the 1er, but in general that is not desired.

I.e. see this:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec.../photo_22.html

Your M3 control arms already help with this since they're slightly longer. This pushes the hub out, and thus the kingpin angle and axis out along with the tire itself. This might be enough to run a higher offset without hurting scrub radius too much.

I'm not entirely sure what the 1M does to combat this, since it has much lower offset wheels.

I would generally only recommend increasing track width (as measured from the center of the tire contact patch, not outside edge) after you've run out of space inboard. I.e. your tire or wheel touch the strut, or inner fender liner at full lock.

If you can actually make special control arms and whatnot you can do a better job, but that's some serious engineering work and not for a DIYer.
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      10-30-2013, 06:11 AM   #3
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Ordered and installed 20mm front and 10mm rear BMS spacers before my last lapping event for 2013.

Really happy with quality of BMS spacers, but got a slight rubbing issue in the rear with the 10mm spacers and 255/35 tires during high speed turns overy bumpy pavement. This is even with max negative camber set at 1.6* in the rear. The front 20mm spacers are great and no rubbing at al even with -3.2* camber.

Wheels look much better in wheel wells, not as much tuck due to the agressive negative camber Im running.

I will get my fenders rolled.
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      10-30-2013, 07:36 AM   #4
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Aesthetics don't mean much to me for a track car. So if the negative camber gives a "weird" look so be it. I only run spacers if I I need to, ie to clear the coilover strut/perch, else I prefer not to. Why add more weight and push the feel further away from the hub?
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      10-30-2013, 08:20 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 Tii View Post
Aesthetics don't mean much to me for a track car. So if the negative camber gives a "weird" look so be it. I only run spacers if I I need to, ie to clear the coilover strut/perch, else I prefer not to. Why add more weight and push the feel further away from the hub?
Can understand the comment, but as I mentioned, it is a dual duty car. Cannot stand to have it look like crap on the streets.

The spacers are made of aluminium, and very light weight. Ive also widened my track in front by 40mm (20mm x 2), which is probably not bad thing on the track. The car felt good and well balanced on the cold track (neer freezing weather yesterday evening), and I drove with DTC mode until tires were warm, then DSC off without drama.
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      10-30-2013, 08:49 AM   #6
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Remember, you're putting spacers in possibly the worst spot on the car, unsprung load.

This is why I'd highly suggest NOT getting SUV wheels with a higher offset for track. Your car will not like it. 20+ lbs wheels on a low HP car will be terrible.
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      10-30-2013, 08:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Can understand the comment, but as I mentioned, it is a dual duty car. Cannot stand to have it look like crap on the streets.

The spacers are made of aluminium, and very light weight. Ive also widened my track in front by 40mm (20mm x 2), which is probably not bad thing on the track. The car felt good and well balanced on the cold track (neer freezing weather yesterday evening), and I drove with DTC mode until tires were warm, then DSC off without drama.
Dual duty or not, you're just addressing aesthetics. It's not like a tucked in wheel hurts the driveability of everyday driving. If anything you said you're getting rubbing on the rears and +20mm on the front is a lot. I agree with Freon's comment on changing the scrub radius - it won't be noticeable in straight line but you will feel the effects during braking or if you drive over a slippery surface, the car will pull to one side. Having thick spacers up front can lead to unpredictable/unsafe driving - there's no question about it.

End of day I tell everyone do what you like, but why solicit advise if you already made up your mind? It's like you were asking in hopes someone would reaffirm your decision. Bottom line, there's not much to gain with this setup aside from looks. As a safety precaution to you, I would at least remove the spacers on track (which is a PITA to do for every event if you didn't plan on swapping wheels and jacking up the car anyway).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
Remember, you're putting spacers in possibly the worst spot on the car, unsprung load.

This is why I'd highly suggest NOT getting SUV wheels with a higher offset for track. Your car will not like it. 20+ lbs wheels on a low HP car will be terrible.
+1, why SUV wheels? Just because it's the right offset? It seems like you are going really out of your way to keep the oem appearance of your dual duty car but you're really sacrificing a lot. Plenty of aftermarket 18x8.5 et42ish that would work without spacers on the car, with just camber up front.
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      10-30-2013, 09:33 AM   #8
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Also I would add if the tucked-in look bothers you so much, then you can always run wider wheel/rubbers up front which would help both on handling/performance and give you a more flush look. So if you're looking at a dedicated track set, keep your staggered wheels as you have them now for street and change the camber back to your street setting. When you slap on a wider square set for track, change the camber back to -3.2*.
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      10-30-2013, 09:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
Remember, you're putting spacers in possibly the worst spot on the car, unsprung load.

This is why I'd highly suggest NOT getting SUV wheels with a higher offset for track. Your car will not like it. 20+ lbs wheels on a low HP car will be terrible.
The BMS aluminium spacers are light weight. The stock style 261 wheels, RE-11 tires, and stock rotors are not lightweight at all though. I noticed when temporary handling them yesterday versus my E46 BMW 330xi 17 inch wheels and winter tire setup.

Why I looked at SUV wheels, and they are about the same weight if you dig up the specs by the way, is to save money. Im considering downsizing to my E46 330xi 17x7 wheels (correct offset for the 135i) with 225/45R17 RS3's for a dedicated track setup next spring.

I dont consider my Cobb flashed 135i to be low power, so no problems dragging them heavy shoes around the track.
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      10-30-2013, 09:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 Tii View Post
Also I would add if the tucked-in look bothers you so much, then you can always run wider wheel/rubbers up front which would help both on handling/performance and give you a more flush look. So if you're looking at a dedicated track set, keep your staggered wheels as you have them now for street and change the camber back to your street setting. When you slap on a wider square set for track, change the camber back to -3.2*.
I do not have 2-3 grand to throw custom wheels+ tires on the car. I may use my existing E46/330xi 17x7 wheels (current winter setup) with 225/45 RS3 next spring. As an added bonus, they are lighter weight too.
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      10-30-2013, 09:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
I do not have 2-3 grand to throw custom wheels+ tires on the car. I may use my existing E46/330xi 17x7 wheels (current winter setup) with 225/45 RS3 next spring. As an added bonus, they are lighter weight too.
1. That's why you do it right the first time around - this applies to wheels, tires, suspension, brakes, etc. You bought the wrong pads for your track setup. You're not happy with the clunking from your camber plates and admitted you should've either gone Dinan fixed or a different brand for adjustable. 225/255 PSS is great for street but not great for track. All this because you wanted to achieve the perfect dual duty setup which end of day is compromising many aspects of your car. You can still have a dual duty car, it just may require 2 separate hardware.

2. You can always find a track set, wheels & tires, on the classifieds. I see packaged setups selling for $1500 or less all the time.


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Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
The BMS aluminium spacers are light weight. The stock style 261 wheels, RE-11 tires, and stock rotors are not lightweight at all though. I noticed when temporary handling them yesterday versus my E46 BMW 330xi 17 inch wheels and winter tire setup.

Why I looked at SUV wheels, and they are about the same weight if you dig up the specs by the way, is to save money. Im considering downsizing to my E46 330xi 17x7 wheels (correct offset for the 135i) with 225/45R17 RS3's for a dedicated track setup next spring.

I dont consider my Cobb flashed 135i to be low power, so no problems dragging them heavy shoes around the track.
Going narrower for a track wheel (albeit correct offset) seems like a worse idea. You'll be limited to a 225 square on a 7" wide rim, which means even less rubber than what you have now. A 245 is narrow imo for even factory but considering you're running a Cobb tune, I would think you want even more rubber in the rears. Think hard before you waste money on 225 R-S3's only to realize you should've gone wider, again do it right the first time. Those 17's off your e46 do sound like a great winter setup.

End of day your car, but if you're really asking for our 'thoughts', I think most here who know a thing or two about this would agree you're going about this the wrong way.
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      10-30-2013, 09:49 AM   #12
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stock size is 215/40 and 245/35 (18 inch). Would 225/45 (17 inch) square setup with extremely sticky tires or racing compound tires be that bad?
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      10-30-2013, 09:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
The BMS aluminium spacers are light weight. The stock style 261 wheels, RE-11 tires, and stock rotors are not lightweight at all though. I noticed when temporary handling them yesterday versus my E46 BMW 330xi 17 inch wheels and winter tire setup.

Why I looked at SUV wheels, and they are about the same weight if you dig up the specs by the way, is to save money. Im considering downsizing to my E46 330xi 17x7 wheels (correct offset for the 135i) with 225/45R17 RS3's for a dedicated track setup next spring.

I dont consider my Cobb flashed 135i to be low power, so no problems dragging them heavy shoes around the track.
Unsprung weight is basically weight times 4 of actual weight on car. These numbers are never exact.

So, if you get a 26 lb wheel...you're looking at 104 lbs of "felt weight" on the car.

Downsize to 17lbs, you are shedding 36lbs per wheel of "felt weight". Totaling 144lbs of weight from the car...that is huge.

Regardless if you have power or not. Unsprung weight is a killer on any car.


EDIT: A friend, who owns a E36M, with no engine mods...has APEX wheels, and a LTW Flywheel. His car revs much faster than mine, and IMO it accelerates faster than mine...Where I have 100 more HP over him, but still run a stock flywheel and wheels. Unsprung weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
I do not have 2-3 grand to throw custom wheels+ tires on the car. I may use my existing E46/330xi 17x7 wheels (current winter setup) with 225/45 RS3 next spring. As an added bonus, they are lighter weight too.
You don't need 2-3k

http://www.apexraceparts.com/ARC-8-1...eel_p_106.html
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      10-30-2013, 09:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
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stock size is 215/40 and 245/35 (18 inch). Would 225/45 (17 inch) square setup with extremely sticky tires or racing compound tires be that bad?
I plan on running 245/275 Dunlop ZIIs next year on my Z4M. You want as much tire as physically possible.
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      10-30-2013, 09:57 AM   #15
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Quote:
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$1000USD/set + shipping + duty fees + tires = $2-$3K CAD
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      10-30-2013, 10:00 AM   #16
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Oh and BTW, the APEX may require spacers too ... Not only for aestethics after all ...

From their web site ...

"Certain applications may require the use of a hub-centric spacer up front, to clear the strut tube..."
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      10-30-2013, 10:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kgolf31 View Post
I plan on running 245/275 Dunlop ZIIs next year on my Z4M. You want as much tire as physically possible.
Not as easy to do on an E82 without fender rolling, spacers, lots of camber, custom wheels, or all of the above ...
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      10-30-2013, 10:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaron9999 View Post
Oh and BTW, the APEX may require spacers too ... Not only for aestethics after all ...

From their web site ...

"Certain applications may require the use of a hub-centric spacer up front, to clear the strut tube..."
Yea but it's only 3-5mm, not 20. Big difference. Why is it so hard for you to believe what we are telling you? Stop arguing with us lol.


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Not as easy to do on an E82 without fender rolling, spacers, lots of camber, custom wheels, or all of the above ...
Dude, he's not telling you to run a 245/275. He's saying that's what he's running on his Z4M (which has similar power as your 135i), and in general you should try to run as much as you can.
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      10-30-2013, 10:13 AM   #19
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no kidding ... I know running widest rubber possible, and square setup is ideal. No need to shout ...

Just trying to demonstrate that is a PITA on an 135i, with limited budget. I come to this forum to learn from others that went through this process. It is obviously easier when money is not object ...
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      10-30-2013, 10:14 AM   #20
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no kidding ... I know running widest rubber possible, and square setup is ideal. No need to shout ... ;-)
No kidding but you couldn't interpret his post.
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      10-30-2013, 10:18 AM   #21
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Quote:
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No kidding but you couldn't interpret his post.
..and you could not interpret mine ... trying to use what I have and minimize costs ...

...must be lost in translation. French is my mother tongue ...
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      10-30-2013, 10:18 AM   #22
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Quote:
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no kidding ... I know running widest rubber possible, and square setup is ideal. No need to shout ...

Just trying to demonstrate that is a PITA on an 135i, with limited budget. I come to this forum to learn from others that went through this process. It is obviously easier when money is not object ...
If it is a PITA perhaps you should get a miata or E30 and use that as a track car.
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