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      01-09-2014, 05:53 PM   #1
The Dowager Countess
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so my ligtweight track/street 128i project begins...

so i have a white 128i with no options save the M-Sport package. I ordered and bought this thing for many of the same reasons most of you did. I love the feel of a N/A BWX six in a light weight rear wheel drive package. The car is more than fine stock- but that doesn't mean I don't want to give it a bit of personality and improve it if i can. ideally, i'd like to make the car a bit sharper and lighter. i'm less concerned with drastic increases in the horsepower or torque numbers- although i'm sure i'll eventually do headers and a tune once evolve sorts out the n51 thing or the guys at Turner can show me some appreciable gains through their AA tune and SuperSprint headers.

I'm heading to Turner tomorrow to drop off a deposit for an LSD. I'm going with a custom. 2 clutch and going to change the final drive from 3.23 gears to 3.64. Living in New England, the LSD really helps with traction in the snow, and it is probably the best thing you can do to improve the handling. I went with an 2 clutch instead of a helical because it's a bit cheaper and I love the race car on/off feel you get from them. The builder has assured me reliability has not been an issue.

The next step will be wheels and tires. This is where I can make the biggest weight savings. I need some advice here- but it'll probably be something 17x8.5 square all around with some Proxes R888 for track and street use in the summer. I know some wack-jobs running these three seasons on Porsches and they really like them although they do need to heat up a bit before you get crazy with them.

I'll probably do some exhaust stuff just to make it a bit louder to aid in shift points. the car is a little quiet i think.

After that, we'll look at M3 sub frame bushings and suspension work. I'll probably go with Konis and some heavy springs while not sacrificing ride height. I want the suspension to work for me- the key here is to make sure the car is fast- not that it feels fast and I certainly don't want to do anything to make it understeer more- I'd like to re-capture what the chassis and layout was designed for- neutral handling to mild oversteer.

Then we're going to get crazy and start making everything lighter. I could see my self doing what I did with my old car- carbon trunk, hood, removing the AC, doing a rear seat delete- replacing the side and rear glass with lighter weight stuff, removing the sound proofing- but i'm not convinced. there are safety issues here as well.

Anyway- thanks for reading and i'm open to suggestions!
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      01-09-2014, 05:58 PM   #2
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Your plans sound great, Can't wait to see how this turns out. As for the exhaust, take it from me since i've been through 3 different setups, go with the PE and never look back.
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      01-09-2014, 06:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dowager Countess View Post
I'll probably do some exhaust stuff just to make it a bit louder to aid in shift points. the car is a little quiet i think.

Anyway- thanks for reading and i'm open to suggestions!
I think the Magnaflow offers great value for money for the 128i. Sound character & weight savings (you ditch OEM heavy muffle & resonator for lightweight versions). I would get the Magnaflow tips in black/painted black to get that 135i shadow line look. BMW PE only does muffler and weights not much less.

I dont know how it will sound with Headers, but thats something you risk
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"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is

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      01-10-2014, 07:47 AM   #4
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If this is a street car I wouldn't get the Turner tune with the headers as you will fail emissions.

Other than that I love this thread.
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      01-10-2014, 09:34 AM   #5
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I'd be interested in seat options that are fit for a DD
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"The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
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      01-10-2014, 01:40 PM   #6
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Please post updates as you go . I also have an N51 128i and am just starting to think about what I want to do with the car in terms of mods. I'm curious how all this turns out.
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      01-10-2014, 04:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
I'd be interested in seat options that are fit for a DD
Recaro Sportster CS is kinda the only option as far as I'm concerned.
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      01-10-2014, 08:02 PM   #8
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I drove up to Amesbury today from Allston in slippery shitty icy conditions ironically to see about ordering a 2 Clutch LSD for my car. To say the guys at Turner Motorsport were gracious is an understatement. Jason gave me and my buddy Dave a tour of the whole facility which was really impressive. Their show-room is cool with lots of trophies, soft goods, nice displays of some of the stuff they manufacture and sell- a bunch of Recaros you can sit in, a whole line of Apex wheels on display etc.

The real cool shit was in the back- not only did we see a ton of customers' street cars getting all sorts of stuff done to them, but we also got to check out their GT Class M3, and their new Z4 GTR which I think might be the only one in North America. The drivers like that thing alot better than the GT Class M3 which suppossidly, "just wants to fucking kill anyone who tries to drive it".

Anyway- I ordered the diff and talked about what I wanted to do with car. We settled on tightening up the handling first. The LSD will be key to that and the 3.64 drive ratio is gonna make the thing feel a lot quicker off the line. On the highway, it'll probably be a bit buzzy because I'm losing about 800 rpms- but honestly our cars are geared to German highways and I am always that guy who is on a dark deserted highway and looks down and realizes if he gets pulled over he's going to jail....and my last car before this one was my brief foray away from european sports cars- a 400hp modified n/a 2008 Mustang Bullit with 4.10s so I know what a car geared stupid low feels like and this won't be that by a long shot.

We also decided to go with an H&R Sport Cup Kit- I'm not one to adjust damping and ride height and a lot of guys seem to like this- we're gonna do a big rear sway bar to get the thing back to neutral handling if the springs and the struts and the new square set-up doesn't work.

I also ordered some Apex 17x8.5 wheels which we'll throw some 225/45R17 tires on. I'm probably going to go for Falken Azenis RT-615Ks because I've had them on a slew of VWs and my old E46 and loved'em.

That's where I'm at now- we'll tweak from there and see where we end up. I'm psyched. It was pretty interesting how adament the guys at Turner were that money should be spent on the diff, the suspension and the wheels in that order and anything to boost the power output is not the best use of resources. Suprisingly, based on what the group here says, they also didn't think M3 subframe bushings were worth the labor to do at this point especially because the car is so new. We'll see- these guys have plenty of experience with 1 series bimmers-but they've done tons of M3s and that might be where this is coming from. I guess alot of guys don't realize how bad the stock bushings are until they swap them? I don't know. What I can tell you is I think I am in good hands. Their pricing seemed fair for the product and their a super tight operation.

Hey! Thanks for reading.

Craig
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      01-10-2014, 08:28 PM   #9
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What large rear Sway bar will you get? M3 versions or after market.
Also, intrigued by the subframe comments.
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      01-10-2014, 08:53 PM   #10
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A rear bar will increase understeer and make the rear end twitchy under braking.

Please call TCK and discuss your project with them. IMO if this is a track car you'll benefit from DA Shocks and custom # springs to suit your application. H&R Cup Kit isn't sufficient IMO.

As well, since you have a N51 IMO you should go catless headers with a 300 or so cell count in replacement of your secondary. After that forget about any exhaust, just do a straight turn-down and dump after the 300 or so cell count cats.

Any exhaust like PE or Magnaflow is going to add weight that isn't needed.


Very interested in this thread though
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      01-10-2014, 09:02 PM   #11
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Thanks kgolf for the advice- this is a daily driver. I agree theoretically based on my understanding if the suspension and chassis dynamics that a rear sway bar might not be needed and may even negatively effect things- I'm taking stuff one step at a time. Do you feel the hr cup kit will be detrimental? Again I'm trying to make the best handling 128i for driving.
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      01-10-2014, 09:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dowager Countess View Post
Thanks kgolf for the advice- this is a daily driver. I agree theoretically based on my understanding if the suspension and chassis dynamics that a rear sway bar might not be needed and may even negatively effect things- I'm taking stuff one step at a time. Do you feel the hr cup kit will be detrimental? Again I'm trying to make the best handling 128i for driving.
With my experience driving on a TCK DA Suspension on a E36 M, you can dial the shocks back to soft to where it rides like OEM suspension (for a E36M). IMO it was a better ride than what my E86M stock suspension could offer.

When it comes to the track, simply changing compression and rebound adjustments makes the ride firm up, and become an animal.

Ultimately it what you think you need. IMO the dynamics of DA suspension is incredible...understeer/oversteer can be dialed out with simple shock adjustments.

You need to drive a car with DA shocks to appreciate them. Someone on a forum talking about them doesn't do it justice.

The HR Cup Kit should suit you fine, but if you want more out of your suspension, you're going to have to spend a lot more money or something more.
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      01-11-2014, 09:19 AM   #13
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I wouldn't run R888's on street, yes you can due to deep treads but why prematurely heat cycle them out before getting on track? Plus you'll never get them up to optimal temps on streets. At best you'll get 30 heat cycles if you're cautious with tire management.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrey_gta View Post
What large rear Sway bar will you get? M3 versions or after market.
Also, intrigued by the subframe comments.
Stick with factory rear and only change the front after you've picked a proper spring rate and still feel the need to fine tune things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dowager Countess View Post
Thanks kgolf for the advice- this is a daily driver. I agree theoretically based on my understanding if the suspension and chassis dynamics that a rear sway bar might not be needed and may even negatively effect things- I'm taking stuff one step at a time. Do you feel the hr cup kit will be detrimental? Again I'm trying to make the best handling 128i for driving.
H&R cup isn't track worthy in my opinion. If on budget I'd rather go with TCK SA's.
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      01-12-2014, 11:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 Tii View Post
I wouldn't run R888's on street, yes you can due to deep treads but why prematurely heat cycle them out before getting on track? Plus you'll never get them up to optimal temps on streets. At best you'll get 30 heat cycles if you're cautious with tire management.



Stick with factory rear and only change the front after you've picked a proper spring rate and still feel the need to fine tune things.



H&R cup isn't track worthy in my opinion. If on budget I'd rather go with TCK SA's.

Thanks. I'm opting for Falken Azenis rt-615ks. I have had great luck with these tires in the past.

I did explore the TC Kline options earlier. I like the idea of working with a local shop as I do not have the tools or space to do any of this stuff myself-but maybe I will reconsider the suspension. Again- the dood I am working with at Turner is certainly a knowledgeable guy, but he isn't a suspension guru like TC.

I don't really want to adjustable shocks. In my days racing VWs I always worked with Dick Shine at Shine Racin Services and he really turned me on to how good the right spring, shock and sway bar combo could be....he was never a fan of coil-overs and he was a magician with VWs....Imagine a FWD car with a hint of oversteer- but i digress.

Thanks for all the insight! although now I am nervous the HR kit will suck.
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      01-12-2014, 12:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dowager Countess View Post
Thanks. I'm opting for Falken Azenis rt-615ks. I have had great luck with these tires in the past.

I did explore the TC Kline options earlier. I like the idea of working with a local shop as I do not have the tools or space to do any of this stuff myself-but maybe I will reconsider the suspension. Again- the dood I am working with at Turner is certainly a knowledgeable guy, but he isn't a suspension guru like TC.

I don't really want to adjustable shocks. In my days racing VWs I always worked with Dick Shine at Shine Racin Services and he really turned me on to how good the right spring, shock and sway bar combo could be....he was never a fan of coil-overs and he was a magician with VWs....Imagine a FWD car with a hint of oversteer- but i digress.

Thanks for all the insight! although now I am nervous the HR kit will suck.
I'm very familiar with Dick from SRS, used to own a VW myself but can't help think he's a little too old school. For street, the right spring/shock combo might suffice but if you do plan on tracking, adjustability really helps. I change rebound all the time depending on both track and track conditions.

From my experience, H&R's are really harsh for street and even on highest setting they're pretty darn low.
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      01-12-2014, 12:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 Tii View Post
I'm very familiar with Dick from SRS, used to own a VW myself but can't help think he's a little too old school. For street, the right spring/shock combo might suffice but if you do plan on tracking, adjustability really helps. I change rebound all the time depending on both track and track conditions.

From my experience, H&R's are really harsh for street and even on highest setting they're pretty darn low.
thanks-http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs/Items/Details978.cfm

So something like this would be a much better bet even if i skipped the Camber plates?
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      01-12-2014, 12:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dowager Countess View Post
thanks-http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs/Items/Details978.cfm

So something like this would be a much better bet even if i skipped the Camber plates?
Correct and I'd call TC for recommended spring rates.
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      01-12-2014, 12:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Correct and I'd call TC for recommended spring rates.
nice.
i will- last i heard he was recommending 300# in the front and 500# in the back for our cars with that set up.

c
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      01-14-2014, 03:18 PM   #19
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i spoke with TC and I feel much better about going with his system. i like that he actually offers a bunch of spring rates and i think i'm even kind of warming up to going with an adjustable coil-over system.

what would be the groups thoughts on doing TC's recommended spring rates- (350 front 500 rear with the stock bushings or 600 rear with the M3 sub frame bushings with a non adjustable strut? sacrilege? i don't want to ask TC any stupid questions- but as I've said before- I'll probably just find a place where I like what the car does and leave it there.

am i over thinking this? thanks- it's just confusing because i'm not yet totally fluent in the BMW suspension dynamics and i'm hearing different things from Turner than from TC and from reading posts here.

Sorry to be so needy. You guys are great as always.

Craig
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      01-14-2014, 03:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dowager Countess View Post
i spoke with TC and I feel much better about going with his system. i like that he actually offers a bunch of spring rates and i think i'm even kind of warming up to going with an adjustable coil-over system.

what would be the groups thoughts on doing TC's recommended spring rates- (350 front 500 rear with the stock bushings or 600 rear with the M3 sub frame bushings with a non adjustable strut? sacrilege? i don't want to ask TC any stupid questions- but as I've said before- I'll probably just find a place where I like what the car does and leave it there.

am i over thinking this? thanks- it's just confusing because i'm not yet totally fluent in the BMW suspension dynamics and i'm hearing different things from Turner than from TC and from reading posts here.

Sorry to be so needy. You guys are great as always.

Craig
From the top, few people know as much about properly tuning dampers as TC. His strut setups, from my experience, have always been light years ahead of the competition when it comes to non-independent reservoir setups. I've used his kits on every performance car I've owned, with the exception of my M5 where it wasn't offered Amusingly, the M5 and my Ground Control coilover setup I had on it convinced me that I don't want to own another car where TCK isn't an option.

If you listen TC, and set the struts/ride height to his specs(near full soft for street), the car will be more comfortable than stock on the street. You will completely eliminate the crashy nature of the stock suspension, while more smoothly absorbing the inconsistencies of the road surface. In terms of going through the turns, the car will be borderline unrecognizable. Flat and controlled, while maintaining traction even over bumps and imperfections mid turn.

Sounds like you are zeroing in on my setup. I'm currently running TCK DA at 350/600, with M3 subframe bushings. Everyone who has taken it for a spin so far has been astounded with the transformation, including a nice gentleman with a E90 330 on JRZs. They hold up for the long term as well. I know quite a few people in the E46 M3 community that have had them for well over 100,000 miles, with thousands of track miles interspersed.

Turner doesn't sell TCK, so there is no reason for them to encourage such a purchase.
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      01-14-2014, 03:47 PM   #21
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Oh, and I forgot to mention. TC is one of the original 128i enthusiasts:

http://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/101...e#.UtWiU_RDtZA
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      01-14-2014, 04:43 PM   #22
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done. st1g- you have me convinced. we're going with TC's suggestions.

now for the next big decision:

having looked at the math and spoken with the guys at Apex it looks like i can do the following:

Arc-8 18x8.5 with the 45mm offset with no rolling or camber needed and I can run Azenis RT-615Ks in a 235/40/18 set-up all-around.


What I'd rather do is run 225/45/17 Azenis RT-615Ks with ARC-8 17x8.5 with a 40mm offset. This may require -2' of camber or a slight fender roll in the back- but gives me the advantage of a lighter, cheaper set-up.

I erring towards the latter although I am a bit uncomfortable with rolling fenders an I think camber adjustments should be done to make the carhandle better not to make the tires fit......

ugh. last question for the day I promise.

Craig
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