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Originally Posted by Petercat
Of course, buy what you want... 
The question wasn't whether you or I are faster than each other. That's not the issue at all and a non-productive arguement.
You really point out some benefits of the manual over auto. Rather than just saying "it's slow". You point out the techno-nanny attributes which take away your control. I think the best point you make is the direct selection of gear to gear, where manumatic you have to click through all to get what you want.
This brings up another question of mine. Does the computer know better than you and I? Don't you believe the auto upshifts are put there to prevent you and I from damaging our engines? I'm sure we've all had those misshifts we wish didn't happen.
No finger pointing, just open discussion. |
I hear what you are saying, but the rev limiter prevents you from over-revving. Even so, I would do more damage to my car sliding off the road than I would by a momentary run into redline. I did fine back before the days of rev-limiters too, but it's nice to know it's there nonetheless.
The reason a manual is FASTER around a track is because it will let you do things that an automatic will not. It may not always be good for your car to drive hard, (in fact, almost always the opposite), but if your car is "knowing better than you" it is slowing you down. This was precisely my point.
You know what the best thing about the BMW traction control in our cars is? The fact that you can turn it totally off! I like the DTS setting too, but it will only let you get so far sideways before it will clamp down on the brakes to keep you going straight. That slows you down in most situations. An automatic slows you down too, but for slightly different reasons.
Let me make one thing totally clear though as far as handling. I bought a manual more for handling advantages than for acceleration advantages. Straight line acceleration is not the reason I prefer automatic. If all I was doing was driving straight, I would have no problem with automatic. Sure, they are a tad slower to accelerate, but not enough to really bother me. It's the control issue that is the factor for me.
One of the things I liked about DSG in the Audi A3 was the fact that it was much more direct than any tiptronic, steptronic, or manumatic that I have ever driven, except for maybe SMG. The difference was that DSG was much more forgiving around town than SMG, but still as direct as SMG for sporty driving. The DSG will let you downshift into a much higher RPM than steptronic or tiptronic (Audi version) will do. It still won't let you over-rev, but it shifts RIGHT AWAY and matches RPM of the engine by blipping the throttle. It's very similar to the system on the Ferrari Modena or Enzo. (and the system that F1 cars use). It really feels like a manual with no clutch pedal. It's a little weird at first, but I could get used to it. It's not that I think that the concept of "automatic" is bad, it's just the execution that has been poor. (up until the recent DSG and SMG trannys, that is).
Look, why did we buy BMWs in the first place? I am sure we all have different reasons. My reason was because of driving precision and handling, coupled with civility for sporty daily driving. I didn't buy it for image, and in fact I am kind of embarrassed to drive it around and park it at work because I feel kind of pretentious.
Here's my decison process. (these are all hypothetical percentages, by the way) Let's say the 330i handled 10% better than the A4, and 15% better than the Acura TL, but cost 10% more than the TL. The extra cost was worth it to me to get the better handling of the 330i. Why then would I want to compromise 6% of the handling advantage of the 330i by getting an automatic with it, which also raised the cost of the car by $1,200?
I am not saying that everyone did, or should buy their car for handling or performance, but lots of people on this board throw out comments like: "Lexus cars handle like crap, or Audi cars suck" and then they go and pay a premium for a BMW and throw away a large percentage of their handling advantage by buying an automatic. I just don't understand it. If you are not one of those people that bags on the handling or performance of competitive cars, I don't care if you drive an automatic. But if you do drive an automatic, I don't want to hear about how your BMW handles better or peforms better than x car, because it probably doesn't.