Advice/Opinions on Wastegate Rattle

[PKBlu]

Quick backstory:

Purchased a 2008 135i from the original owner in April of this year. The previous (original) owner took extremely good care of the car, always had it dealer serviced, no modifications, and low miles (63k). Could not ask for a better maintained and cleaner car.

About three months ago I noticed a faint waste gate rattle, and take it to a local dealership for a look. Their diagnosis is the waste gates are failing and turbos should be replaced. Unfortunately the car despite being under the 82,000 mile limit of the warranty is 3 months over the 8 years. They offer 50% coverage of the repair. I contacted BMW customer care, plead my case, and after more than 3 weeks of waiting their final offer remains 50% coverage of the repair. I plead my case again, and they tell me their decsion is final.

Little disappointed in BMW that they would not fully stand behind a failure of this kind, with it being a known issue, on a vehicle with relatively low miles. However they essentially made it clear their offer is final, and I was lucky to get that.

Suggestions or advice? With limited options I will probably move forward with having the turbos replaced at the dealership. I don't think any independents will beat the 50% offer, and I am not interested in doing the work myself. Higher performance aftermarket units were considered, but would like to keep this car stock at this time, and can't justify the additional cost.

[Dat Aus]

You're luck they even offer 50% of the cost. BMW Australia didn't even do a recall for the N54 waste gate.

[Trptguy]

Take the 50% and run with it. I had to pay for all new turbos myself.

[1and1]

Honestly I think BMW is being more than fair. There is a clearly defined and long standing line in the sand, and you're on the wrong side of that line- 3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 years... doesn't matter. Does it kinda suck that you missed it by just a bit? Yep, but as they say, that's life

The 50% which has been offered- is that towards the full repair cost- parts, labor etc? Or only towards parts? What is the anticipated final cost to you?

I'm curious since, while I respect your desire to remain stock, replacing like for like will eventually result in the same problem- the new ones may last a year, or may last 8 years & three months... It's a crap shoot. However, there are some nice aftermarket stock equivalent replacements which resolve the known issues and would be a better long term replacement than a fresh pair of stock turbos.

Of course, if you're just going to sell in in a year-ish, I suppose it probably won't matter to you, it'll be a problem for the next owner to worry about...

[PKBlu]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback, and helping me see that I am in fact getting a generous offer from BMW.


My reasoning as to staying stock is based on reliability. If there were reasonable solutions for a more reliable final solution I would definitely entertain it.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by 1and1

Honestly I think BMW is being more than fair. There is a clearly defined and long standing line in the sand, and you're on the wrong side of that line- 3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 years... doesn't matter. Does it kinda suck that you missed it by just a bit? Yep, but as they say, that's life

The 50% which has been offered- is that towards the full repair cost- parts, labor etc? Or only towards parts? What is the anticipated final cost to you?

I'm curious since, while I respect your desire to remain stock, replacing like for like will eventually result in the same problem- the new ones may last a year, or may last 8 years & three months... It's a crap shoot. However, there are some nice aftermarket stock equivalent replacements which resolve the known issues and would be a better long term replacement than a fresh pair of stock turbos.

Of course, if you're just going to sell in in a year-ish, I suppose it probably won't matter to you, it'll be a problem for the next owner to worry about...

The current turbos ARE different from what came on the early cars('08's & '09's)... The current turbos have a larger wastegate actuator rod(10mm vs 8mm's) and a different WG design(I believe). ?

But I understand what you are saying with aftermarket turbo upgrades. Most of the online BMW parts places sell the N54 turbos for around $800 each. Plus you will most likely need new exhaust manifold gaskets, nuts and studs.

Dackel

[1and1]

By my join date to 1addicts I'm clearly still a noob here, and reading daily on the common issues. I've found much on the wear of the original wastegate bushings, and their need to be replaced to resolve the issue. Also much on companies who do shoddy rebuilds & neglect to replace wastegate flapper arms & bushings, and others who do replace those parts. (parts example: http://turbolabofamerica.com/bmw-135...le-repair-fix/ )

I'm sure I just haven't yet found references to the changes BMW has made- would you be able to link anything discussing what changes BMW has made to the turbos? I'd love to see what's been done!

[Cmoney135i]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

The current turbos ARE different from what came on the early cars('08's & '09's)... The current turbos have a larger wastegate actuator rod(10mm vs 8mm's) and a different WG design(I believe). ?

But I understand what you are saying with aftermarket turbo upgrades. Most of the online BMW parts places sell the N54 turbos for around $800 each. Plus you will most likely need new exhaust manifold gaskets, nuts and studs.

Dackel

Can you point me in the direction so I can read about the different turbos? I have an 09 and just curious... Maybe you can answer a quick question I'm assuming the later model turbos are less prone to failure? I have 09 that is coming up on the 8 year mark in 7 months and want to plan ahead for aftermarket turbos if necessary.

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Cmoney135i

Can you point me in the direction so I can read about the different turbos? I have an 09 and just curious... Maybe you can answer a quick question I'm assuming the later model turbos are less prone to failure? I have 09 that is coming up on the 8 year mark in 7 months and want to plan ahead for aftermarket turbos if necessary.

Well... even the 1M's turbos have issues as well. I am just saying that the turbo/wg design was changed sometime in 2009 to a slightly thicker wg rod design.

I assume you have seen these pdf's...

[1and1]

I thought the 09 & 10 model year N54's had the same problems? The warranty extension covers those as well, which leads me to think that any turbo design changes circa '09 didn't resolve the issue.

I hate being a noob- surely this is all clearly documented already, and it twerks me off no end to not have clear fact at hand to reference.

[Cmoney135i]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Well... even the 1M's turbos have issues as well. I am just saying that the turbo/wg design was changed sometime in 2009 to a slightly thicker wg rod design.

I assume you have seen these pdf's...

Sorry for the stupid noob questions but does thicker mean better? or worse?

I'm very curious about this because I just rolled over 70k miles the other day and my turbos seem to be in great shape... no rattle, no smoke, nothing but boost

[thewubwub]

Originally Posted by PKBlu

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback, and helping me see that I am in fact getting a generous offer from BMW.


My reasoning as to staying stock is based on reliability. If there were reasonable solutions for a more reliable final solution I would definitely entertain it.

I am in the same situation as you are, I just picked up a 135i with 85k miles. Do you mind sharing exactly how much 50% off really is? And if is that with parts AND labor? The rattling in mine is really starting to annoy me

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by Cmoney135i

Sorry for the stupid noob questions but does thicker mean better? or worse?

I'm very curious about this because I just rolled over 70k miles the other day and my turbos seem to be in great shape... no rattle, no smoke, nothing but boost

Well... that's the question. A thicker rod has more mass... so maybe thats why they rattle less than the earlier design. But the rattle has also to do with the mass of the wg valve itself - and I think that was also changed. I really don't know IF this really fixes the rattle - but we do still see people complaining about the rattle on the forums - so I don't think this thicker WG rod is a total fix. Maybe more of a band aid - like the WG fix SW update(29.2) that BMW has rolled out a few years ago. This SW update keeps the WG's open until fairly high revs(~3K rpms) and then they close. What most people notice(including myself) was a significant loss of throttle response from before the sw flash. Where as before it only took 1/5th throttle opening for snappy acceleration... it now requires 2/3rds throttle for the same amount of shove/acceleration. :/

Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147781

A German friend of mine with a 2008 tuned 135i developed the dreaded WG rattle last year. He found a shop in Munich that rebuilds turbos. They replaced his WG valve and actuators - and his rattling went away. He's quite happy with the outcome. It was a lot of work R&Ring those turbos though. think he paid about 500 euros(new BMW turbos are around 1K euros each over here) for the new WG's plus he paid another shop to R&R his turbos. This fixed his rattle in his 135i with 400 PS.



wg before...

wg after... notice the larger triangular weight on the WG valve.

[kprocivic]

If i could go back in time I'd do it again and upgrade.

[thewubwub]

Originally Posted by kprocivic

If i could go back in time I'd do it again and upgrade.

How did you go about fixing your wastegate issue?

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by thewubwub

How did you go about fixing your wastegate issue?

installed refurb'd turbos that eventually started rattling.

[ayao]

For those happy enough with stock power levels what makes the most sense for turbo upgrade as far as a reliability mod goes?

[Dackelone]

Hey guys... I just saw this video and it made me wonder if this VW clip would fix any of the semi worn WG's out there. Obviously - IF your WG shaft is worn(like in this video) this clip won't help you. But it might help some people out there. ?

[kb135]

Yeah I came across this idea a few days ago and am also keen to hear if it helps or solves anything?

[thewubwub]

I'm not sure if the video of that fix applies to our cars...?

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by thewubwub

I'm not sure if the video of that fix applies to our cars...?

That's what is rattling.

[thewubwub]

Originally Posted by kprocivic

That's what is rattling.

Understood, but is it really the wastegate arm thats rattling? OR is it the wastegate seal inside the turbo that is making the rattling?

Maybe someone can chime in? I would really like to hear a solution b/c I am out of a warranty and it seems like my options are really limited at this moment...

I've tried the DIY where I tried to stick my hand from the top and under but there was no way to tighten up the arm. Also, from what I've heard, even after that fix the noise will eventually return.