Squeaky Clutch

[tjswarbrick]

I didn't find anything through searching - but I can't be the only one.

I bought my N55 E88 end of June with 45k on the odo. Love it, and it's in fantastic shape. Have not gone through any deep or standing water - heck, I think it's only rained for 10 minutes since I brought her home.
But - driving with the top up and radio off, I can hear the clutch squeak. I only notice it when feathering it out in low-speed situations, but in stop-and-go it can become bothersome and I can occasionally feel a little stickiness in the pedal action.
- I know - "Stop driving slow!"
Has anyone else experienced this?

I'm trying to figure out how best to attack it.
Is it likely a small, external thing or does it need internal work?
Grease the throwout bearing? (Need a DIY for that, I'm sure.) Lube up the return and helper springs? Take a look at the actuators, links, and hinges in the cabin and under the hood? What else am I missing?

I've been planning to pop in a K&N Drop-in filter and Burger-modified CDV next weekend, so hopefully I can take a look at this at the same time.
Can anyone provide guidance on where to look and what lubes to use where?
Thanks!

- Tom

[tjswarbrick]

Forum search didn't work, but with a Google search I found a thread on here from 2008 - white moly grease on the clutch return spring looks like a good place to start.

[tjswarbrick]

Why oh why didn't anybody tell me?
It looks like our cars use the split, thin plastic clutch bushings which are "prone to squeaking."

Ambling through Rogue's site I see they make a replacement set out of acetal/delrin.
So do AKG. They also have Bronze.
UUC does some in UHMW polycetal/polyethylene.
Some say the plastic ones from an E30 - 35211109541 - are even much better than ours. And fit nearly all BMW clutch pedals.

Found a D-I-Y and while it's a little involved it doesn't look too bad.
For me, it'll be worth it to get smoother action, less play, and no more squeak!

[Dackelone]

Why not first pull off the clutch slave cylinder(two bolts) and lube the end of the servo with some high temp anti seize. ???

[tjswarbrick]

Alright - I'll do that, too.
Would anti-seize be better there than bearing grease?
But if it's the bushings squeaking, then the bushing shall be replaced.
Thanks!

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by tjswarbrick

Alright - I'll do that, too.
Would anti-seize be better there than bearing grease?
But if it's the bushings squeaking, then the bushing shall be replaced.
Thanks!

No. Bearings need grease. But for the pivot points of the clutch release arm(and slave cylinder) a high temp anti seize is best.


Here is a typical FWD trans - lubing the clutch release arm/pivot. He used way too much silver anti seize(IMO) on the "hat" and also too much on the tran's input shaft. The red grease he used(the amount) was about right though.

Of course your problem could be a broken "hat" or clutch component. You won't really know until you peek around up in there - when you remove the clutch slave.

[tjswarbrick]

I really think it's just the pivot. But it won't hurt to do some investigation. Thanks for the tips!

[tjswarbrick]

While I'm down there I'm thinking to replace MT oil.
Any suggestions?
Redline? Royal Purple? Motul? Other?

[tjswarbrick]

I put in the AKG delrin bushings yesterday.
I was planning to follow the ChiTown M instructions, and do a nice new DIY write-up for the 1addicts community. But then, I got in too deep and gave up on the instructions.

A couple of the panel screws are T20 Torx - not all are philips.
And that review makes no mention whatsoever of the main spring and it's split sliding shaft.
And that thing was a nightmare.

If it was in position for the pedal shaft to line up and slide nicely, the spring needed to be compressed. It was too strong for 4" zip ties, and there was not enough clearance to use 8-inchers to compress it and get over the outer portion of the shaft.

If it was forward enough to assemble without compressing the spring, the inner shaft would get stuck on the outer lip of the other one, and not slide inside.

I wound up sliding off the c-clip, and pulling the pin.

Lovely Assistant, my daughter, started dancing while holding the clip. Dropped it. Good 20 minute delay.

Then as I was pressing the pin in, it flew off and landed on top of the dead pedal. I went to grab it, and it fell down behind the carpet! (and insulation.)

I found a DIY for removing the M-Sport dead pedal. I don't know if mine's too old and brittle or what, but using a panel-remover tool I managed to snap all 4 of the sprues/pins that hold it in. So need a new one.

Finally pulled the carpet forward and got the pin. Pressing it in, broke a chunk of one side of the doggone plastic pedal arm!

Then, I love how the bushings are thicker than stock to minimize slop. But, at least with the limited clearance, visibility, leverage, and skill of this installer - I couldn't get the locking clip back into the groove.

So, it's currently held in place by the return spring and master cylinder pin.

The wife was freaking out on me, and I had to get it back together. I should thin down/sand the outer flange to get the pin on, but I drove it last night just to make sure it's feasible. Actually feels great! No more slop, and no more squeak. Much easier to modulate.

I did lube everything up with a thin film of anti-seize.

But 6 hours, numerous cuts and gashes, sore back, arms, legs, and ribs. Broken pedal and broken dead-pedal, I think that was the most expensive $20 I ever spent.

Now to check RealOem and see if I should get a new plastic clutch pedal or go for the UCP.

Arghh.

(Didn't get down to lube the clutch slave cylinder or replace the tranny oil. Perhaps in a couple weeks at oil-change time.)

But I think I'm going to have a pro do the suspension install...

[tjswarbrick]

Factory clutch pedal is what $40. Everyone says "less than an hour to replace." I generally figure double the time due to inexperience and needing to locate tools.

Dealer wants 89 in parts and 3 hours labor.

First time took me 5 though everything went wrong. Still less than double.
That would be over $500!

I thought of a couple tricks to save my body and make things slightly easier. At $300 UCP includes a bunch of changes to make reassembly easier.
Gonna try it.

Will see if using the delrin bushings with it is feasible. Street car after all, and it really does feel pretty nice right now.

[tjswarbrick]

Ultimate Clutch Pedal ordered. And not a moment too soon.
After much stop-and-go city driving last night, even with the delrin bushing coated in antiseize, the clutch pedal would squeak/grind occasionally.
This morning, I could wobble it pretty good in place.
Don't know how much time I have left on the busted plastic one - but it's not looking good.
Luckily the drive home is mostly freeway and usually not much traffic.

[BostonBeemah]

Wow Im glad I actually came across this. My car since my last clutch install 3+ has done this. Generally seems to happen when its colder out but its definitely there. I have the brass pivot are with the 3+ and mfactory smfw. I feel like its the slave cylinder arm squeeking on the fork but what do i know lol

[tjswarbrick]

Running on a single lubed delrin bushing sounds and feels like running on a pair of dry factory bushings. Ask me how I know.

My stock ones weren't the ultra crappy split ones, though. The barrel is a complete cylinder, and the outside is ribbed slightly.

Stock bushing dimensions: .555 ID, .705 OD, .949 Flange OD, .061 Flange Thickness, .632 OAL.
AKG Delrin: .552 ID, .702 OD, .874 Flange OD, .094 Flange Thickness, .671 OAL.

Kinda funny the aftermarket one is actually smaller OD than the stock one - it sure looks thicker.
I wonder how big the bronze ones with the UCP will be. I'll try to remember to post up here.

The AKG's are just thick enough (at the flange) that I couldn't get the locking e-clip back in place. Bad idea.
Since it was super late and my UCP is in the mail, I lubed up one of the stockers and slid it into the outer position (In addition to being a slightly looser fit, the leading edge of the barrel is tapered slightly.) With one of each, I could get to the groove on the pedal pivot pin and install the lock. Whew.

I also learned one more trick - an ottoman about door-sill height just outside the door really relieves the back when working upside down in the footwell! Just keep an assistant nearby to hand you the tools and parts you need.

.061 x2 (.122 ~ 1/8") = loosey-goosey,
.094 x 2 (.188 - 3/16")= interference fit,
.094 + .061 (.155 ~ 5/32") = just right.

[tjswarbrick]

Just read a DIY for popping off the clutch slave cylinder - they said the Tranny needs to be dropped! Not going there... Will take a look next weekend when I'm under the car changing fluids.

Have a box at the post office from Harold. Looks like the UCP has arrived.

[tjswarbrick]

Got the UCP Ultimate Clutch Pedal and BMW Performance pedal pads (and accelerator) installed!



Didn't bother with the DIY - the UCP instructions lay it out quite well. I especially liked, when the pedal is off, "look how sad the car would be with the automatic or DCT..."
Only change I would make to their directions is don't bother installing the upper / large shoulder bolt until you get that big spring in place. What a pain that was! They say you can relieve tension on it by pushing the pedal all the way back. Hmmm - maybe that's BEFORE installing a nice thick clutch stop. I could force it forward or back, but never high enough to get the .315" shoulder bolt all the way through. I wound up undoing the upper bolt, which let me pull the pedal forward past where the master cylinder allows in order to take all the pressure off the spring and install the lower bolt fairly easily. I don't intend to go back down and do this ever again, so I stuck it in the intermediate "sport" location.

Other observations: I love the shorter throw, better location, and no slop. I polished the bronze bushings with 3000-grit, 5000-grit, and Flitz on a dremel. Then cleaned, lubed up with CV-2 moly synthetic, cleaned off, and re-lubed. The new bushings don't squeak or chatter, but they actually feels a little rougher/grittier than well-lubed delrin bushings do. They seem to be pressed in and gave no indication that they're removable without special tools, so I didn't try.

It was nice that the e-clip on the pivot actually did "snap" in place like they said it would.

Mounting width of the stock clutch with stock bushings is 1.682 inches. With 2 AKG delrin bushings, it was 1.740. In this configuration I couldn't get the e-clip into its groove.
With 1 factory and 1 AKG bushing I was looking at 1.70 wide. I got the clip to stay on, but it never "clicked" into place. UCP with bronze bushings is 1.651. So there's actually a chance for a little transverse slop there, but the clip is holding tight and I don't feel the pedal move - though I could wobble it a tiny bit with my hand.

The accelerator pedal was easy enough, following instructions I had previously read.
Clutch pedal pad took a bit. Even using the alcohol trick (I used denatured) I managed to pop the SS trim off before I got the rubber pad all the way on. Had to take it off again to correct...
Brake pedal was a cinch. More alcohol. I first tried to slip on the lower, narrower portion and tweak the rest in to place - no-go. Then I put the upper, thicker part on, and just held the tip of the pad with my fingers as I brought it down to the lower part of the pedal. Wasn't to bad wriggling that in to place.

I love my new pedals!