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03-11-2010, 08:25 PM | #133 |
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e90 M-Tech 330i JB/Terra / e82 n54 135i AW/CR 420rwhp 444rwtq - RIP
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03-12-2010, 10:37 AM | #135 |
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^^^ Not the point... the fact you put out a product and in 4 months can't show some comparison numbers is what the issue is...
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03-12-2010, 02:47 PM | #136 |
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03-12-2010, 03:25 PM | #137 |
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e90 M-Tech 330i JB/Terra / e82 n54 135i AW/CR 420rwhp 444rwtq - RIP
e53 X5 4.8is M///BLUE/M///SUEDE - 357whp 369wtq - The Snow Beast! n54 135i JB/CR JB4 FBO - Tc Kline D/A Coils - 11.5 @ 122mph 1/4 mile 18' Blue/Black SEL Premium R-Line 4 Motion Tiguan - Mods on order |
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03-12-2010, 03:43 PM | #138 |
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I didnt spend time looking thru all the replies, but if someone really wants this design, have they thought of making it themselves? it seems very do-able. you just need to purchase those gold heat resistant foil, some plastic boards, a tool that cuts plastic boards, and some rubber seal/silicone and a glue gun and 2 intake filters. you will probably save yourself atleast $1200.
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03-12-2010, 03:56 PM | #140 | |
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http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...3538&highlight
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03-14-2010, 11:34 PM | #141 | |
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1) If there were no people out there thinking "out of the box", there would be no aftermarket. 2) The cost of something has to do with much more than just the cost of material: R&D, time planning / developing / fabricating / testing cannot be given a fixed $ amount. 3) IF one wants to pass judgment, one must first do his research carefully: "you just need to purchase those gold heat resistant foil, some plastic boards, a tool that cuts plastic boards, and some rubber seal/silicone and a glue gun and 2 intake filters. you will probably save yourself at least $1200." There are multiple fallacies here: A] As you can see from this picture: there seems to be a metal ( Aluminum with TIG welding?) Box which has been cut / welded and then modified to result in their version. No plastic boards / rubber seal here. B] "save yourself at least $1200": you don't even know the price of the kit yet... per their own words: "Will post pricing soon...but we can sell today (price today is $1,500 for complete kit, in any powder coated color), but hope to bring the price down by simplifying the kit a little, and optmizing the kit (drive out some costs), and will release in multiple forms (complete kit, or without charge pipe and BOV) and kits that can be upgraded a piece at a time." Consider they mentioned, if I read correctly, that was with Charge Pipe and BOV , and considering a SETT CP with BOV is $565 retail, the airbox itself would probably be significantly cheaper than 1500. C]The Dinan CF intake: is $999. No one seems to question their claim that their "cold air intake force feeds the 3 liter turbocharged inline 6 with greater volumes of cool, oxygen rich air for substantial power gains by utilizing [their] secondary carbon fiber intake. The system is so effective that the carbon fiber inlet air temperature is a full 40 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than the incoming air from the stock inlet. ". You want to prove to me that the incoming air at 60 MPH from in front of the grill is 40F higher than that at ground level? What planet would that be on? Also, I think the claim that "Due to the increased airflow from our intake, the power-curve is extended into the higher RPM’s for a noticeable change" is accurate ( see my other posts on AFE VS DCI VS OEM Box on the Forums ) in that the stock air box has that strange squarish restriction from the post-filter area to the velocity stacks... having and additional entry point eliminates that restriction ( which the point behind this guy's work : http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...3538&highlight ) hence more pull at higher revs ( i.e. why I like the BMS DCI design) which is likely the point of the dual filter design on the ASR box. And while I applaud Mr. 5's ingenuity, having done something similar myself, the stock box and his hose are not that great at isolating from Heat and if there is no constant monitoring of what the extra tube may rub against / what may perforate it, there will always be this nagging fear that something may get sucked in through a possible generated hole behind its filter and straight down the velocity Stacks... then down to the Engine. Not likely to worry about that with AR Design's box. 4) Another alternative to the AR box is the Gruppe M Intake which is based on the same idea ( i.e. utilize the stock pick-up from the grille) and isolated the heat / place bigger air filter ) but that will run you in the $1400-$1500 range, if you can get one, and you don't fall for the fake knock-offs that prop up on Ebay occasionally... 5) The post was not about a final product ready to sell, but obviously was to gauge interest / see if it could be sold ( feasibility study of sorts ) that given the less than positive remarks on this board probably led to consideration of canning of the project and diversion of time / effort to other projects... I am not surprised not to see dynos as I, in the same position, would have said "forget about it" and canned the project. I think a little more patience, a little less harassment, a little more encouragement, may lead to better response from the Tuners out there and a better chance of more innovative products for us to benefit from. Feel free to disagree.
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03-14-2010, 11:42 PM | #142 |
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Oh, and one more thing: let us not forget that in general there seems to be a "plenum effect" from closed boxes which results in Torque usually lost from CAIs / cones etc. system. The gain in flow in the form of HP can be at the expense of Torque ( Mr. % says so himself in the permutation she did to get to his box). In fact, I find very curious AFE's dual Intake design in that the two are not connected by just a plastic piece: that is actually hollow and connects the two ducts' flow ... one wonders is they came to that by testing and trying to mimic the fact that with the stock OEM box the velocity stacks collect air from a common area.. as the Gruppe M, as the Dinan, as the ASR box...
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Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(1addicts.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.
Last edited by Jettafanatic; 03-14-2010 at 11:42 PM.. Reason: typo |
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03-14-2010, 11:50 PM | #143 | |
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Sure it can. I do it every day of the week. But that's beside the point. The real problem here is "Where is the testing?" How are we supposed to know this thing doesn't actually LOSE power? Are we supposed to take someone's word for their seat of the pants feel on something like this? If it's been extensively tested, where are the dyno sheets? I don't know of any other reasonable way to do this kind of testing, so in this case it simply hasn't been done. As I said earlier in the thread, I'll pay a premium for something that works well, but you better be able to demonstrate that it does before you start asking for my money, and I damn sure don't want to hear excuses about why it can't be done. If you're going to be in the business of selling perofrmance parts, you better not get offended when people ask you to prove that they ACTUALLY perform. Fabrication and materials on this thing will be under $500. If these guys are paying more than that for it, they need to find another sheetmetal shop to deal with. That means there's about $1000 to cover testing and development cost in EACH unit. If they sell 5 of them they've more than covered the cost of building a prototype and a couple of trips to the dyno to see how it performs. I shocks the hell out of me to see people get behind something like this with absolutely no data whatsoever backing it up. |
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03-15-2010, 12:44 AM | #144 |
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Just to add some salt on this thread....here is a post from TODAY about results the ASR 135i had, w upgraded turbos....AND....what...what did I see under the hood, the ASR closed intake system....this is very serious performance indeed.
TOP SPEED runs currently being held in Florida. The event is all about seeing how fast your car will be at the end of a 1 mile stretch. Starting from stand still. I just got word that the ASR 135 just did 177mph! By comparison, a GTR with full bolt-on mods did 171mph. The 135 has the following mods: Stg 3 mods Meth injection ASR upgraded turbos Procede v4 @ 19psi Just to make it clear, this is NOT a top speed run. This is just how fast the car is going by the 1 mile mark. To put this in perspective, this is faster than a C6 Z06 and only a few mph off a C6 ZR1. Serious territory for a car that is shaped like a top hat. See the other post about this run by ASR. We are playing w other elements to make the system easier to build, and cheaper...but we believe in the design....this is what building a solid solution is all about...testing, testing, testing.... Bruce BRracing |
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03-15-2010, 07:47 AM | #145 |
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Lot's of passion. Lot's of "War and Peace" length posts. But not much focus on what the simple issue is and has been all along.
Why no dyno tests complete, documented and posted to help substantiate impressive claims that would justify an impressive price tag? And discussions about the performace results of a 135i that has many, many mods of which This Intake may or may not be a contributing factor is interesting but not germane. |
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03-15-2010, 08:42 AM | #146 | |
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Yeah seriously... this whole thread could be put to bed with a few simple words... Stock airbox on stock car- HP/TQ Aftermarket air box on stock car - HP/TQ the END...
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03-15-2010, 09:47 AM | #147 |
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more than power gains/losses i would like to see the diff in air temps and air flow, too see if in fact more cooler air is going in as they say
no doubt this would have to be the case if it made more power |
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03-16-2010, 07:04 AM | #148 |
Donde esta la biblioteca?
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03-17-2010, 02:43 PM | #149 |
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