06-27-2010, 03:23 PM | #287 | |
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This really sucks. We need a real M1, not some dressed up 135. Who's ready to pay over invoice for this? It will be pretty sad to see a sleeper N55 outperform this so called M1. |
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06-27-2010, 04:58 PM | #288 | |
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The C&D article has a lot of misinfo. One, 335 HP wouldn't need wider fenders like the ones shown. Two, they didn't speak on the little detail, like brakes, suspension, CF roof, etc. It will come... |
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06-27-2010, 05:24 PM | #289 | |
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06-27-2010, 10:50 PM | #291 |
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Yes, PLENTY of B.S. They have to fill the pages somehow. All these rags are good for is writing entertaining reviews and taking pretty pictures. The rest is BULL CRAP imho.
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06-28-2010, 06:35 AM | #292 |
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That's what I've always been worried about. The 1M will be nothing more than a quick and cheap way for BMW to make a few more bucks on the E82 platform before they move on. Let's hope they don't do that, but the C&D article suggests that's what's coming.
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06-28-2010, 10:43 AM | #293 |
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Many automotive media journalists and sometimes forum enthusiasts overshoot their credibility in one swoop.
One thing that is always overlooked is the principle in which an M is conceived , and this is where the competition falls flat. The basis car for an M has to be a very good platform to begin with in which BMW's such as the M3 , M5 even the X5 are at the top of the segment for driving enjoyment. Secondly an M is not just in principle a faster BMW . The car is re-engineered to suit the advancements the M division apply it is not just a 3er with a more powerful engine , a lot of thought has to go in to make the car apply with it's power. The 1 Series M is no different from any other M car , true this is known as a cost effective way to create an M by using components and mechanicals from the M3 as the 1 will do . But the M3 is a car that has universal acclaim , and is a car that has a very good basis the 3er Coupe to justify it's position as the benchmark. It is correct that the latest M engines are developed from their BMW Counterparts , but these are award winning engines that are adapted to suit the character of M. No one likes change but the philosophy has to be adapted in light of increased emission targets but the engines dont have to be the same engine transplanted into several vehicles. The engine being developed for the 1 series M will also provide the basis for the next generation BMW M3 Coupe. The V8 introduced with the X5 and X6 M will be seen in both the M5 and M6 but with a different character and more power . The M6 will also offer a slight increase in power over the M5 to challenge other high end performance cars such as the 911 Turbo and Audi R8 5.2... As I have said before (numerous times before) that BMW's test in phases , at the early stage fit and finish is neither essential or important. The numerous engineering divisions working on the car test their specifics first before multiple prototypes become one. |
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06-28-2010, 12:20 PM | #294 |
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Scott,
You know your words will now be analyzed like some Papal decree. So - the 1M will have a new engine that will be the basis for the M3? That would mean it will not be an upgraded N54 (though it wll have a turbo). OK, sounds promising, possibly extremely promising if this implies that there even would be a clear path to M3 power on an 1M platform.
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06-28-2010, 12:35 PM | #295 | |
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06-28-2010, 01:19 PM | #296 |
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I think the wait sometimes drives us all crazy. Scott has told us tons about the car and all of the logical engineering is being used. People that think this is a cheap way to make the 1M/M1 might not be considering the big picture, IMO.
The M3 is internationally renowned as one of the best handling street cars, period. When CD tested it against the Nissan GT-R and Porsche Turbo they said "all other car makers should stop what they are making and just make M3s" The M3 won the test. This car will have an M3 adapted suspension, we have all seen the pieces and know M will tune spring rates, dampers, and sway bars to the application. This means that it will be basically one of the worlds greatest handling road cars with a shorter wheel base and less weight. What's not to love? It even gets rid on the lower torque V8 that is better on a track than out in the real world. All of these pieces are being coordinated by M. I have to pinch myself sometimes to believe we are getting this car. I would prefer this car over a M3 or M anything. I can now afford almost any car and this is the one I want. (for a lot of reasons, like it should be available with a glass sunroof option and others). So my decesion is almost price independant. I know all will not agree, especially the track guys, but the chassis on this car will be awesome and considering the engine is the basis of the next M3 it should be very good too. |
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06-28-2010, 01:30 PM | #297 |
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I will wait for the car to speak for itself, because ultimately that's what matters. Those who must have the car on day 1 can preorder. I have done and did that and enjoyed the perks of being first. This time around, however, I will wait for thorough reviews, and a proper test drive before putting my money down. There are plenty of competition on the horizon. If 1 series M can go toe-to-toe with the Cayman RS I will definitely get a BMW over Porsche.
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06-28-2010, 01:39 PM | #298 |
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06-28-2010, 01:54 PM | #299 | |||||
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Sorry, but I have an addiction and there is ownly 1 cure. |
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06-28-2010, 02:00 PM | #300 |
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Maybe I am spoiled. As I recall one of the allure of E46 M3 was it's capable to hold its own against Corvettes and 911 (non-special edition) like David versus Goliath. I am not hopefully it will be on par but at least keep pace and make P-car driver hard to shake the BMW.
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06-28-2010, 02:11 PM | #301 | |
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Comparing an M Car to a stock, lower end Porsche is okay if we're talking canyon runs or straight line performance, but it tends to fall apart on the track and gets even worse if you include higher performance options from the Porsche catalog. |
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06-28-2010, 02:38 PM | #303 |
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Not really meant to come off as rude, or unfair. I think 99% of M buyers are fine with the street performance of their cars and don't really care about the track capabilities. Just as I can arm chair quarterback how an M whatever is better than a Cayman in countless ways.
It comes down to what the owner really wants, and some of the shortcomings of M products are never exposed by most buyers. Ultimately, I've owned the same S52 powered M Car for over a decade and it's served its purpose very well, survived plenty of track time and still puts a smile on my face every day. I just know that I come out on the wrong end of a stop watch when a Cayman or Corvette is around, but it doesn't keep me up at night. If anything, it seems that the M Division is coming to terms with this and hopefully is putting the money previously spent on making highly wound, but generally torque deficient motors into more thought out suspension, brake and driveline tuning. |
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06-28-2010, 05:02 PM | #304 |
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[QUOTE=JB135MDCT;7576008]
We are not interested in sales pitch rhetoric.[QUOTE=JB135MDCT;7576008] You do know SCOTT is part of the marketing department, right? [QUOTE=JB135MDCT;7576008]Now this is info candy. It's like the pheasant is packen a 9mm.[QUOTE=JB135MDCT;7576008] This has been known for a while.... IMO, anything that we can get from a pretty forthcoming and very reliable inside source is icing on the cake....hell none of us would have anything but the crap from the rags if it weren't for SCOTT...
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06-28-2010, 07:39 PM | #305 |
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06-28-2010, 09:34 PM | #306 | |
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[QUOTE=dmboone25;7577216][QUOTE=JB135MDCT;7576008]
We are not interested in sales pitch rhetoric.[QUOTE=JB135MDCT;7576008] You do know SCOTT is part of the marketing department, right? [QUOTE=JB135MDCT;7576008]Now this is info candy. It's like the pheasant is packen a 9mm. Quote:
It seems like Scott's statements have gone through a critique and approval with upper management. The only reliable data we have are pictures, no concrete details have been divulged. |
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06-28-2010, 10:28 PM | #307 |
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Beacuse all of the M engines are going turbo for emmisions and mileage reasons. They can be more efficient for the same amount of power at the expense of some nonlinearity. Just as the next M6 will use and advanced form of the M5 engine, so will the M3 use a different tuned 1M/M1 engine.
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06-29-2010, 03:12 AM | #308 | |
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JB135MDCT, this news is months old. Do you really think M was going to keep the V8 now, when emissions regs in Europe and US are tightening? The best option is the the S55 engine and develop it so that it can handle about 450-475 hp, if not more. By the time it gets into the next M3, this engine will have had some thorough engineering, kinda like a 21st century RB26DETT or 2JZ-GTE... |
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