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12-11-2010, 08:41 AM | #45 |
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The only things they definitely should have done with this car, but didn't, was up the boost at the top end, and use the M3 manual differential.
Make it pull to 6500 instead of HP peak at 5900. Even if the HP peak was never allowed to exceed the same 340hp, just push it out that little bit - if it has 340hp from 5900-6500, it would be significantly faster. The diff is a gimme for WAY harder acceleration. That's probably why they didn't do it (along with the 0-60 issue) - it would likely crush an M3 up to 1/4 mile with just changing the diff or at most the diff plus my tune above. The third thing, if I can go that far, is they should have included DCT. If they did, and put IT with the M3 manual diff, the shift points wouldn't even matter for 0-60 and it would be a ROCKET. The diff is the biggest disappoint because it's FREE.
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... a glorious V8 that screamed and hollered as the revs rose and then howled in an orgy of what sounded like BDSM ecstasy as it neared the red line.
Well, you can forget all that. The new car is fitted with a turbocharged straight six. Turbocharging? In an M car? That’s like putting gravy on an ice cream. - Jeremy Clarkson, discussing the S65 and then S55 M3 engines. |
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12-11-2010, 08:53 AM | #46 | |
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12-11-2010, 09:08 AM | #47 |
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Could BMW mark this "1M" an M2 and call it a day? The 1 series remains a lower level BMW while the M2 remains an M2 forever. Getting rid of the ugly transition from 1M to M2. Just my .02 cents.
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12-11-2010, 10:01 AM | #48 | |
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High Revs
I hope the M division gets the message that some of us want to spend our money on an enthusiast car that peaks HP much higher than 5900. Until then, my E46 M3 and my money will stay with me. It's frustrating that I WANT to give them my money but the dissapointments keep coming.
My old N54 was too dull to drive and there was a genuine lack of driver connection. Quote:
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12-11-2010, 11:25 AM | #49 | |
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12-11-2010, 01:37 PM | #50 |
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I'll be getting an M3 then. First and last V8-powered M3. I like new 1M but lack of DCT is a deal breaker for me (I can drive manual but lack of an arm makes it awkward). So, does this mean that the last chance to get a current M3 is late next year?
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12-11-2010, 01:42 PM | #51 | |
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Ooooooh... the first valid DCT complaint that doesn't start with " my wife" .... LOL.. |
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12-11-2010, 01:45 PM | #52 | |
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X3M to fill the gap left by the M3?......it makes no sense.
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Originally Posted by corneredbeast
An engine from a Z06 Corvette. A differential from a Vespa. Damn Quote:
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12-11-2010, 02:44 PM | #53 |
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12-11-2010, 02:54 PM | #54 |
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By all means. There are many reasons why I would never choose a forced induction engine over a naturally engine. Some of those reasons make for a stronger argument than others, but they're valid all the same. They are:
I appreciate the work that BMW is doing to make turbo engines like the modified N54 in the 1M behave more like naturally aspirated motors, but ultimately it's still a forced induction engine that will suffer from all of the characteristics I list above. After spending 8 years behind an F20C, and 2 years (and going) behind an S65, I don't intend to change my driving (or purchasing) habits. No NA, no sale.
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12-11-2010, 03:04 PM | #55 | |
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12-11-2010, 03:42 PM | #56 | |
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Biggest factor that people who worship numbers on the paper ignore are "torque multiplication from gearing and axle ratio" and "low mass inertia" as well as "horsepower and torque cross over point at 5252 rpm".
I am sick of ignorant people parading torque numbers on paper "oh the paper says 370 ft-lbs of torque". Get this in your head. All on their own, they don't mean squat since wheel torque is far more dependent on torque multiplication through gears than it is on crank torque figures. Both torque multiplication and low mass inertia are factors associated with high-revving engines and telepathic throttle response and eager, hyper-alert senses from the car. Due to low-revving turbo engines having only 7000 rpm redlines, short final drive and short gears are impossible since their acceleration and top speed suffers so they MUST get tall gearing making the car have a "lazy" character. Due to the high low end torque numbers, the car's internal inertia including flywheel must be made heavy and willing to withstand the thick midrange crank torque making the car slow revving to redline while high revving cars are essentially the opposite where they must have low mass inertia to rev quickly to redline. Quote:
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""A great sounding, responsive, high-revving, naturally aspirated engine is part of the DNA of a thoroughbred sports car. No two ways about it."
- Lamborghini on turbocharging Last edited by 330CIZHP; 12-11-2010 at 03:49 PM.. |
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12-11-2010, 04:38 PM | #57 | |
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I will never buy a performance vehicle with a turbo engine.
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12-11-2010, 05:13 PM | #58 | |
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12-11-2010, 05:20 PM | #59 |
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First there is some great info on this site…thank you to the ‘knowledge base’.
I've had the pleasure of driving an e46 M3 since '04 and have enjoyed nearly every trip down the road. I have tested e90 v8 M3s multiple times and they have not matched the seat of the pants fun factor of my current ride. The e90 cars are fine machines...true to the 'ultimate driving machine' motto. However, in my opinion, they suffer the same fate many other new cars face...they have grown in size, and more significantly, are overweight. (And no, a Lotus Elise will not work for me…when sitting in it I end up look out OVER the top of the windshield rather than through it). The next BMW I want is a high revving, race inspiring, lighter weight (around 3000 lbs) 2+2 coupe. As I write this I hear a Ducati roar by, calling me to go out and drive a twisty road somewhere. I’ll give the new 1M a test to see how I like it. The decision I’ll have to make is, is it better than my e46 or just different. If it’s just different, then I’ll keep my money, and keep looking for other possibilities. Thanks, Chief |
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12-11-2010, 06:12 PM | #60 | |
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12-11-2010, 07:46 PM | #61 |
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2011 M3 Coupe TRADED [7.34] 1987 BMW 535is [1.00] Cars from the Past [6.50] The ///M3 Engine S65 [9.59] |
Hahaha ........ Next will be a Electric 2 M ..... during a race on the track there be a 1/2 hour intermission half way round the track (time keeper will hand out time stamped markers of arrival so to keep the race meaningful).
Yes the future it will be fun.
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Life will take us to some interesting places, fortunately The ///M3 will too with a many of us know this very well, now my C6.3 AMG with 487 HP does it too ---> Click here for some good stuff I found |
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12-11-2010, 07:57 PM | #62 | ||||
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I strongly agree with you about throttle response, though I suspect BMW will use ITBs on the next M3 and it will be better than the current 1M, though still not as good as NA. Quote:
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Which is really the point. Writing off all turbos is as bad as writing off all normally aspirated motors. In the same way that you can build a stump pulling viper motor or a 14000 rpm superbike engine, you can build turbos of all flavors. BMW M knows it's customers, and I suspect they will tune their next turbos to be much more to your taste- bet on high rpm and power to redline. Motors will continue to get better, and I suspect you'll be surprised at some point. All that said, with the currently available choices I prefer NA engines myself for track cars. Turbos are nice on the street, though the good ones (GT2) are pretty damn good everywhere.
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12-11-2010, 09:02 PM | #63 |
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I respectfully disagree. Have you seen what a 700HP@4400rpm Peugeot 908 HDi does to every other 700HP LM type car, out of every corner on any racetrack?
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12-11-2010, 09:32 PM | #64 | |
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At any rate, I hope to be surprised, but I won't hold my breath.
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12-11-2010, 10:05 PM | #65 |
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A higher revving engine is less reliable than lower reving turbo engine. Also, a turbo is much easier to fix than an internal engine failure.
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