Power loss after DME Reprogram on N55 2011 135i

jobe1k · 01-20-2012, 08:33 AM

Hey guys,

I took my car in awhile ago for a recall campaign SIB 12 22 10 where the Digital Motor Electronics (DME) was reprogrammed (no reason given for the recall, and the service rep didn't provide any info). After the reprogram, I have been noticing that there is a noticeable turbo lag (when you first punch the gas), loss of low end power and the exhaust was muted (both during idle and start-up). Overall, the car feels much slower after the update. It is my opinion that the vehicle was “detuned” with this latest recall. Has any of you been experiencing similar issues? The car is missing the power it had before the update and kinda negates the reason why we all bought these cars in the first place.

I've notified BMW Customer Relations (customerrelations@bmwusa.com) to have them investigate and I recommend you do the same if you are experiencing similar issues.

Needless to say, this is horribly disappointing......

Thanks

Dackelone · 01-20-2012, 08:48 AM

Unfortunately, with BMW's latest SW update they have reduced the way our 135i car drive when we first bought them. I think this is borderline criminal. Some have said the SW update for the N55's is perfectly fine. I know Doublevanosrc was one of the first with a N55 to report that his SW update gave gis car alot of "turbo lag". That is extactly how I felt when I had my SW updated on my N54. Gone was the instant throttle response and power. Instead I got a quieter engine(at idle and startup and driving) and a detuned turbo! I was NOT happy.

Here are some threads you should read. Basically your only option now is to pay for a PPK SW upgrade or get a good tune(I would suggest a flash tune). Go with a PPK if you want to retain your BMW warranty. You might be able to talk your dealer into another update and have them enable the WG fix, which does not leave them open (and hence your lag now) but most dealers don't seem to know/want to do this re-flash. I'd say PPK.1 is your best bet.

A question about BMW re-programming our cars
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=contacted+BMW

and this 220+ plage thread on the "lag" issue.

Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147781

NYC6 · 01-20-2012, 09:31 AM

Sorry to hear about this issue you guys are experiencing. I would be awfully pissed if it were mine also. Is there a way to determine if ones engine was 'detuned' by BMW? Seems also criminal they could do this.
What about PPK, I had that installed recently. What would prevent them from altering that tune as well?

Dackelone · 01-20-2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYC6

Sorry to hear about this issue you guys are experiencing. I would be awfully pissed if it were mine also. Is there a way to determine if ones engine was 'detuned' by BMW? Seems also criminal they could do this.
What about PPK, I had that installed recently. What would prevent them from altering that tune as well?

PPK tuned cars get a sticker stating they have the PPK installed - mounted on the driver's door jam or headlight cross barce. Also the car's VIN is registered in BMW NA's GT1 database... so any new(subsequent) updates will keep the PPK SW tune. Seems to me that the PPK SW is more performance oriented so BMW tunes those car differently then just normal AG(non M) cars.

I formly believe the reason why BMW has come out with this new SW update that detunes our beloved car is to quell customer complaints about noisey injector (normal loud D.I. stuff) and potential buy backs (lemon cases).

As for an easy way to tell if your 135i has BMW's latest SW flash... you can switch off the DSC (totally) and you will see a new skidding car icon. Also when you have a low tire the TPMS will now point to the low/flat tire. But it has need reported that the new DSC icon has now reverted back to the yellow circle and arrow. So this is not a 100% way to tell. best way is to have a dealer read/print out your SW version.

As far as I can tell... even by using a BT tool, you can not read thw SW version.

New DSC and TPMS icons with BMW latest SW update....

jobe1k · 01-20-2012, 10:08 AM

Thanks Dackelone for the info. I agree with NYC6, it is downright criminal if BMW is indeed "detuning". From what I've been reading through various posts/forums, there is no definitive proof of this "detune". But if you're a driving enthusiast and/or mildly aware of your car's conditions, you will definitely notice the changes after the reprogram. For those of you haven't gotten this reprogram, rev your engine at idle and listen to the exhaust and note the throttle response and then do the same after you take the car in. The exhaust is much more subdued, and there is an increased hesitation in throttle response when you rev the engine. I know this isn't scientific or based on concrete data, but there's something to say about a person intuitions and gut feeling. Also, I love my car the way it was when I picked it up, as a principle I refuse to pay for the PPK so I can get it back to where it used to be.

P.S.
Contacted BMW Customer Relations, Car and Driver, Motortrend and Road and Track to see if I can get a better answer to what's actually going on.

Dackelone · 01-20-2012, 10:21 AM

I hated BMW new SW so much to pushed me over the edge to get a flash tune. When the guy uploaded the new SW onto my car's DME and he started the engine up... I knew right away my old N54's (performance) was back! The car's idle sounds very different with BMW's SW update and w/o it. The engine is more louder w/o the update. But I don't care about some ticking noises - to me thats just normal part of any direct injection motor. What I bought my car for is its engine - all 300 HP!!!

While BMW's new Sw update does retain close to that 300 HP, it always felt "different" to me. It felt less snappy and like I have said before, you needed to press down further(more than 1/2!!!) on the gas pedal to get the same performance as before with just a 1/4 throttle opening. It was really dramatic to me. Perhaps my butt dyno is just more sensitive than others. I don't know. I do know, I missed my old engine's performance. And I am so happy a flash tune returned my engine to the way it drove before BMW's update. Plus when I really want some extra go... I have it in spades. All 380 PS, now.

Focusedintntions · 01-20-2012, 10:56 AM

What i find interesting is when i took my car in for service in December...there were no updates to my car's software available. I still have the old TS symbol.

Canyon Carver · 01-20-2012, 11:02 AM

Well, damn - this is a bit concerning...I've got an appointment tomorrow morning to take my car in for a scheduled service. I definitely do NOT want them de-tuning my motor. I assume this is a mandatory SW update? I'm going to ask the service advisor to refrain from altering or modyfing the DME and see if he mandates it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

But it has need reported that the new DSC icon has now reverted back to the yellow circle and arrow.

For my car, when the DTC is off I have the yellow circle and arrow. BUT, my car does point to the tire that is low...

Since it's a CPO and I've had it about two months, I'm not exactly sure what version of SW I'm on. But I do know the car very well and I'll be able to tell immediately if there's been a loss in power or throttle response.

When I get my car back, I'll share the results and what I've learned...if they detune it, I'm going to be pissed.

jobe1k · 01-20-2012, 11:11 AM

Sweet, yea thanks Canyon. Definitely pay attention to the exhaust note on startup and when you hit the throttle on idle...If your vehicle was updated with the same firmware, you'll notice the hesitation and muted exhaust note...

Dackelone · 01-20-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canyon Carver

Well, damn - this is a bit concerning...I've got an appointment tomorrow morning to take my car in for a scheduled service. I definitely do NOT want them de-tuning my motor. I assume this is a mandatory SW update? I'm going to ask the service advisor to refrain from altering or modyfing the DME and see if he mandates it.

For my car, when the DTC is off I have the yellow circle and arrow. BUT, my car does point to the tire that is low...

Since it's a CPO and I've had it about two months, I'm not exactly sure what version of SW I'm on. But I do know the car very well and I'll be able to tell immediately if there's been a loss in power or throttle response.

When I get my car back, I'll share the results and what I've learned...if they detune it, I'm going to be pissed.

You "might" already have the latest SW. Some have reported that BMW no longer uses that skidding car icon for the new SW update. It has been speculated that, that "skidding car" icon was the MDM version of DSC. I know post SW update the way the stability control worked was less intrusive. It was a deffinate improvement over my orignial DSC sw.

IF your SA tells you must have a SW update... I would insisit the tech enables "wastegate retrofit option" - so as not to have the WG open at idle and just off idle. IF your car comes back MUCH quieter at idle you will know they gave you the power killing SW update.

Also I should point out... that when I got this SW update... one weird thing is that when cruising at 45 to 60 mph... the exhaust as much louder than with my original SW. Many members here reorted how they thought the SW update had given them more Hp bc te exhaust got louder... but that was not my perception. I am no fan of BMW updates.

IF at all possible - if your car is running fine, then do not get an update. One strange thing is that BMW dealers can not give you your old SW either once they update your SW. I think this is because they have no way to downgrade(or back date) all the other ECU's in our cars.

Dack

Canyon Carver · 01-20-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

IF your SA tells you must have a SW update... I would insisit the tech enables "wastegate retrofit option" - so as not to have the WG open at idle and just off idle. IF your car comes back MUCH quieter at idle you will know they gave you the power killing SW update. Dack

Valuable advice - thanks, Dack...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

One strange thing is that BMW dealers can not give you your old SW either once they update your SW. I think this is because they have no way to downgrade(or back date) all the other ECU's in our cars. Dack

I feel like this is a conscious decision by BMW to refuse backwards compatibility of a former tune. This is not firmware we're dealing with...it's software. Software can almost always be returned to it's original state. I guess it's a moot point, let's just hope they're forthright with the explanation. It'll be interesting to see what happens...

Dackelone · 01-20-2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canyon Carver

I feel like this is a conscious decision by BMW to refuse backwards compatibility of a former tune. This is not firmware we're dealing with...it's software. Software can almost always be returned to it's original state. I guess it's a moot point, let's just hope they're forthright with the explanation. It'll be interesting to see what happens...

That is what I thought so too. But my flash tuner said that it has to do with the hardware and software compatiblity and conflicts. Even for my flash tune... they had to read my new SW (update w/detune) and then modify that with their (performance)tune. There must be some logical reason why. But I don't know any more specifics than that.

NYC6 · 01-20-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

PPK tuned cars get a sticker stating they have the PPK installed - mounted on the driver's door jam or headlight cross barce. Also the car's VIN is registered in BMW NA's GT1 database... so any new(subsequent) updates will keep the PPK SW tune. Seems to me that the PPK SW is more performance oriented so BMW tunes those car differently then just normal AG(non M) cars.

I formly believe the reason why BMW has come out with this new SW update that detunes our beloved car is to quell customer complaints about noisey injector (normal loud D.I. stuff) and potential buy backs (lemon cases).

As for an easy way to tell if your 135i has BMW's latest SW flash... you can switch off the DSC (totally) and you will see a new skidding car icon. Also when you have a low tire the TPMS will now point to the low/flat tire. But it has need reported that the new DSC icon has now reverted back to the yellow circle and arrow. So this is not a 100% way to tell. best way is to have a dealer read/print out your SW version.

As far as I can tell... even by using a BT tool, you can not read thw SW version.

New DSC and TPMS icons with BMW latest SW update....

I do have the sticker stuck on my radiator top.
I understand what you're saying but whats to prevent them from making a new SW flash for PPK cars that hinder its performance somewhat like they do for OEM tuned engines for the same reasons you posted about?
We bought cars(for good money) in part due to its engines performance as delivered from BMW.
If they could alter performance characteristics of that OEM engine to protect themselves they could just as easily alter the PPK cars to protect them as well, it seems.

for the record, my car doesnt display the new loss of traction icon(skidding) but it does show the arrow pointing tire low one(found out the hard way)

jobe1k · 01-20-2012, 01:26 PM

Just got a response back from Road and Track. They will be researching this further:
Hi Joe,

I’ve contacted BMW PR and they were unaware of any issues regarding this, but will investigate and respond. My contact wasn’t answering his office line, but answered his cell. He’s got the flu and will research the matter when he gets well and back in the office Monday. I should have an answer or information for you by end of next week.

Best,
-Shaun
Shaun M. Bailey
ASSOCIATE ENGINEERING EDITOR
Road & Track
1499 Monrovia Avenue
Newport Beach, California 92663

NYC6 · 01-20-2012, 01:46 PM

GeeRam · 01-20-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Also when you have a low tire the TPMS will now point to the low/flat tire.

Hmmmmm........

Does anyone know from when new build cars left the factory with this new DME software..?

My car is a May 2011 build, and when I got a nail in my rear tyre after having the car only 2 months, the TPMS system activated, but didn't show that new icon as to which tyre had lost pressure...... I had to physically check all of them to see which has lost pressure.

I'm guessing then I've got the old DME, but I haven't had any recall.

Dackelone · 01-20-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeeRam

Hmmmmm........

Does anyone know from when new build cars left the factory with this new DME software..?

My car is a May 2011 build, and when I got a nail in my rear tyre after having the car only 2 months, the TPMS system activated, but didn't show that new icon as to which tyre had lost pressure...... I had to physically check all of them to see which has lost pressure.

I'm guessing then I've got the old DME, but I haven't had any recall.

I think BMW's SW started around Feb/March, 2011 - for service (in the field) SW updates. That was when I started noticing some of the guys on the e90 forum talking about this new TPMS (pointing)feature. I had my SW updated in March I think - at my dealer. Even they did not know about this new feature.

I don't know when they started loading new car's with this SW. Maybe we can get some 2011 owners to let the air out of one of the tires and they can report back here.

doublevanosrc · 01-20-2012, 02:54 PM

Another victim, I would go back and raise hell. Talk to your SA and be really upfront but nice, tell him you are pissed and want something done. Not sure what they can do besides give you the PPK for free. It's the only thing that will bring the car back. Good job on contacting BMWNA not that they will do anything but at least there's a record on file. Here's a link of my thread:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594712

jobe1k · 01-20-2012, 03:05 PM

Here's a job invoice of what was completed...Not much in the way of describing what was actually done on the car......

doublevanosrc · 01-20-2012, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canyon Carver

Well, damn - this is a bit concerning...I've got an appointment tomorrow morning to take my car in for a scheduled service. I definitely do NOT want them de-tuning my motor. I assume this is a mandatory SW update? I'm going to ask the service advisor to refrain from altering or modyfing the DME and see if he mandates it.

Dude just deny the software update all together, make sure you repeat yourself and stand your ground.

Dackelone · 01-20-2012, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jobe1k

Here's a job invoice of what was completed...Not much in the way of describing what was actually done on the car......

Here is what I have on SIB 122210 update. It only effects N55 built for a year or so. Maybe this SIB has been expanded now?

This Service Action involves E82, E88, E90, E92, and E93 vehicles with the N55 engine produced from

9/09/2009 to 9/16/2010.

here is the pdf...

jobe1k · 01-20-2012, 04:54 PM

Ok, so I got in touch with the local service department trying to sort this out and he told me he doesn't know exactly what the DME reprogram did to my car and got a suspicious feeling he was trying to sidestep my inquiry. So I can assume two things:
A. The service representative really does not have a clue as to what the recall is all about (which I have a hard time believing).
B. There's something BMW is not telling us......

I hate being a conspiracy theorist but this is super annoying..........

01-20-2012, 08:33 AM	#1
jobe1k New Member 5 Rep 16 Posts Drives: 2011 Space Gray 135i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	Power loss after DME Reprogram on N55 2011 135i Hey guys, I took my car in awhile ago for a recall campaign SIB 12 22 10 where the Digital Motor Electronics (DME) was reprogrammed (no reason given for the recall, and the service rep didn't provide any info). After the reprogram, I have been noticing that there is a noticeable turbo lag (when you first punch the gas), loss of low end power and the exhaust was muted (both during idle and start-up). Overall, the car feels much slower after the update. It is my opinion that the vehicle was “detuned” with this latest recall. Has any of you been experiencing similar issues? The car is missing the power it had before the update and kinda negates the reason why we all bought these cars in the first place. I've notified BMW Customer Relations (customerrelations@bmwusa.com) to have them investigate and I recommend you do the same if you are experiencing similar issues. Needless to say, this is horribly disappointing...... Thanks
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01-20-2012, 08:48 AM	#2
Dackelone European Editor 10633 Rep 22,992 Posts Drives: N54 e82 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bayern, Germany iTrader: (1)	Unfortunately, with BMW's latest SW update they have reduced the way our 135i car drive when we first bought them. I think this is borderline criminal. Some have said the SW update for the N55's is perfectly fine. I know Doublevanosrc was one of the first with a N55 to report that his SW update gave gis car alot of "turbo lag". That is extactly how I felt when I had my SW updated on my N54. Gone was the instant throttle response and power. Instead I got a quieter engine(at idle and startup and driving) and a detuned turbo! I was NOT happy. Here are some threads you should read. Basically your only option now is to pay for a PPK SW upgrade or get a good tune(I would suggest a flash tune). Go with a PPK if you want to retain your BMW warranty. You might be able to talk your dealer into another update and have them enable the WG fix, which does not leave them open (and hence your lag now) but most dealers don't seem to know/want to do this re-flash. I'd say PPK.1 is your best bet. A question about BMW re-programming our cars http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=contacted+BMW and this 220+ plage thread on the "lag" issue. Has anyone contacted BMW regarding 29.2 and lag? http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147781
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01-20-2012, 09:31 AM	#3
NYC6 Banned 72 Rep 2,070 Posts Drives: '10 135i PPKI/06 C6 Z51 Vette Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: LI/NY iTrader: (0)	Sorry to hear about this issue you guys are experiencing. I would be awfully pissed if it were mine also. Is there a way to determine if ones engine was 'detuned' by BMW? Seems also criminal they could do this. What about PPK, I had that installed recently. What would prevent them from altering that tune as well?
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01-20-2012, 10:08 AM	#5
jobe1k New Member 5 Rep 16 Posts Drives: 2011 Space Gray 135i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	Thanks Dackelone for the info. I agree with NYC6, it is downright criminal if BMW is indeed "detuning". From what I've been reading through various posts/forums, there is no definitive proof of this "detune". But if you're a driving enthusiast and/or mildly aware of your car's conditions, you will definitely notice the changes after the reprogram. For those of you haven't gotten this reprogram, rev your engine at idle and listen to the exhaust and note the throttle response and then do the same after you take the car in. The exhaust is much more subdued, and there is an increased hesitation in throttle response when you rev the engine. I know this isn't scientific or based on concrete data, but there's something to say about a person intuitions and gut feeling. Also, I love my car the way it was when I picked it up, as a principle I refuse to pay for the PPK so I can get it back to where it used to be. P.S. Contacted BMW Customer Relations, Car and Driver, Motortrend and Road and Track to see if I can get a better answer to what's actually going on.
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01-20-2012, 10:21 AM	#6
Dackelone European Editor 10633 Rep 22,992 Posts Drives: N54 e82 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bayern, Germany iTrader: (1)	I hated BMW new SW so much to pushed me over the edge to get a flash tune. When the guy uploaded the new SW onto my car's DME and he started the engine up... I knew right away my old N54's (performance) was back! The car's idle sounds very different with BMW's SW update and w/o it. The engine is more louder w/o the update. But I don't care about some ticking noises - to me thats just normal part of any direct injection motor. What I bought my car for is its engine - all 300 HP!!! While BMW's new Sw update does retain close to that 300 HP, it always felt "different" to me. It felt less snappy and like I have said before, you needed to press down further(more than 1/2!!!) on the gas pedal to get the same performance as before with just a 1/4 throttle opening. It was really dramatic to me. Perhaps my butt dyno is just more sensitive than others. I don't know. I do know, I missed my old engine's performance. And I am so happy a flash tune returned my engine to the way it drove before BMW's update. Plus when I really want some extra go... I have it in spades. All 380 PS, now.
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01-20-2012, 10:56 AM	#7
Focusedintntions Colonel 107 Rep 2,696 Posts Drives: 2011 135i M-Sport :D Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NoVA iTrader: (1)	What i find interesting is when i took my car in for service in December...there were no updates to my car's software available. I still have the old TS symbol. __________________ Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death… – Hunter Thompson
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01-20-2012, 11:11 AM	#9
jobe1k New Member 5 Rep 16 Posts Drives: 2011 Space Gray 135i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	Sweet, yea thanks Canyon. Definitely pay attention to the exhaust note on startup and when you hit the throttle on idle...If your vehicle was updated with the same firmware, you'll notice the hesitation and muted exhaust note...
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01-20-2012, 01:26 PM	#14
jobe1k New Member 5 Rep 16 Posts Drives: 2011 Space Gray 135i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	Just got a response back from Road and Track. They will be researching this further: Hi Joe, I’ve contacted BMW PR and they were unaware of any issues regarding this, but will investigate and respond. My contact wasn’t answering his office line, but answered his cell. He’s got the flu and will research the matter when he gets well and back in the office Monday. I should have an answer or information for you by end of next week. Best, -Shaun Shaun M. Bailey ASSOCIATE ENGINEERING EDITOR Road & Track 1499 Monrovia Avenue Newport Beach, California 92663
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01-20-2012, 01:46 PM	#15
NYC6 Banned 72 Rep 2,070 Posts Drives: '10 135i PPKI/06 C6 Z51 Vette Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: LI/NY iTrader: (0)
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01-20-2012, 02:54 PM	#18
doublevanosrc Loves his G20 265 Rep 2,507 Posts Drives: 2020 330ix M sport Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Austin. Tx iTrader: (1) Garage List 2013 BMW [0.00]	Another victim, I would go back and raise hell. Talk to your SA and be really upfront but nice, tell him you are pissed and want something done. Not sure what they can do besides give you the PPK for free. It's the only thing that will bring the car back. Good job on contacting BMWNA not that they will do anything but at least there's a record on file. Here's a link of my thread: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=594712 __________________ 2020 330ix-Msport Past- 2013 135i 2011 135i Last edited by doublevanosrc; 01-20-2012 at 03:00 PM..
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01-20-2012, 03:05 PM	#19
jobe1k New Member 5 Rep 16 Posts Drives: 2011 Space Gray 135i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	Here's a job invoice of what was completed...Not much in the way of describing what was actually done on the car...... Attached Images
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01-20-2012, 04:54 PM	#22
jobe1k New Member 5 Rep 16 Posts Drives: 2011 Space Gray 135i Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	Ok, so I got in touch with the local service department trying to sort this out and he told me he doesn't know exactly what the DME reprogram did to my car and got a suspicious feeling he was trying to sidestep my inquiry. So I can assume two things: A. The service representative really does not have a clue as to what the recall is all about (which I have a hard time believing). B. There's something BMW is not telling us...... I hate being a conspiracy theorist but this is super annoying..........
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