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      02-29-2012, 01:16 AM   #1
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Advans or.... not.

Hey guys. Looking at Advan Wheels (RZ-DF), which I really like because of the lip and because they are forged



The problem is, I want 18" and the only available ones are 8,5J and 9,5J which as you know a bit narrower rather than stock 19"

Would it still handle same tyre width without loss in grip (basically same amount of tyre surface that contacts with road)? or not?
Thanks.
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      02-29-2012, 10:16 AM   #2
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I wouldn't go skinnier. Just keep looking, in my opinion.
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      03-01-2012, 12:01 AM   #3
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Thanks Fundahl!
I do keep looking though it's just not out there ...yet any suggestions by anyone?
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      03-01-2012, 11:55 PM   #4
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Raze gave me a clue, found a solution
http://www.forgeline.com/products/co...ries/ga3r.html

Tnx for help anyway///
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      03-03-2012, 03:07 AM   #5
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Go 19's you'll be happy you did.
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      03-06-2012, 08:36 AM   #6
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The advans look like a cool wheel... if they are available in 19.... definitely go that way.
No sense in DOWN sizing when buying street wheels. If it was for track, that's one thing....
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      03-06-2012, 10:06 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
The advans look like a cool wheel... if they are available in 19.... definitely go that way.
No sense in DOWN sizing when buying street wheels. If it was for track, that's one thing....
So, I would have agreed with this once, but I'm planning to get a set of 18s to test with street rubber (PSS). I'll probably convert the 19s to Hoosiers for A stock.

What changed my mind was the following article written by Steve Sutcliffe of CAR magazine- he's got a long term test 1M. BTW, Steve's not your ordinary hack. He's the guy that went within a half second of a pro driver in his first outing in an F1 car, much respect:


Anyway, he wrote the article below, which made me re-think and want to test the 18s on my car. Yes most suggest you give up on looks, but... I'm looking for a good set of 18s to find out.

Winter tyres: not just great in winter

Took the precaution of having some winter tyres fitted to the BMW 1M just before Christmas, and although I was somewhat disappointed to discover how puny the car looked – what with the new 18in rims and 235 tyres not even half filling its huge wheelarches – I was nothing short of amazed at how different it felt to drive; by how much better it felt on the road.

And the biggest difference of all was the ride. On the original equipment 19in tyres the 1M’s ride was at best hard, at worst pretty awful, and even when I switched to a set of Pilot Supersports the situation was improved but hardly eradicated.

On its new 18in winter rubber, however, the 1M’s ride has improved beyond recognition. And its steering has got lighter and sweeter, too. The whole car feels as if it’s been unlocked somehow, and now that the secret’s out I’m not sure I’m ever going back (to 19in tyres and the bouncy-bouncy ride that goes with them).

As to whether the winter tyres are actually any better at performing their primary role – ie providing better traction, grip and braking performance when the temperatures drop into low single digit degrees – I’ve got absolutely no idea, I’m afraid, because down south where I live the conditions have been rather peachy of late. Which does make something of a mockery of the whole ‘do we really need winter tyres in the UK’ debate.

Fair enough, if you are heroic enough to live in the Outer Hebrides then a 4x4 fitted with chains and winches and flagons of anti-freeze (to drink) are entirely appropriate. But for the rest of us this winter has proved, thus far, that winter tyres are actually a bit of a ruse. Which makes the discovery of how much better a 1M behaves on thinner, taller profile, smaller, but less sexy-looking rubber merely an ironic side issue overall.

It does prove once and for all, however, that style now rules over function when it to comes to car design – because no sane BMW engineer would ever agree to sign off a 1M on 19in tyres when it drives so much better on 18ins. Unless the designers and the marketing people insisted upon it, of course, which is exactly how it happens nowadays. Even at BMW GmbH."
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      03-06-2012, 10:16 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpiligrim View Post
Raze gave me a clue, found a solution
http://www.forgeline.com/products/co...ries/ga3r.html

Tnx for help anyway///
Yea, the forgelines are very good- I've got a set of 18s and 19s for my other car and can recommend them.
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      03-07-2012, 07:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
So, I would have agreed with this once, but I'm planning to get a set of 18s to test with street rubber (PSS). I'll probably convert the 19s to Hoosiers for A stock.

What changed my mind was the following article written by Steve Sutcliffe of CAR magazine- he's got a long term test 1M. BTW, Steve's not your ordinary hack. He's the guy that went within a half second of a pro driver in his first outing in an F1 car, much respect:


Anyway, he wrote the article below, which made me re-think and want to test the 18s on my car. Yes most suggest you give up on looks, but... I'm looking for a good set of 18s to find out.

Winter tyres: not just great in winter

Took the precaution of having some winter tyres fitted to the BMW 1M just before Christmas, and although I was somewhat disappointed to discover how puny the car looked what with the new 18in rims and 235 tyres not even half filling its huge wheelarches I was nothing short of amazed at how different it felt to drive; by how much better it felt on the road.

And the biggest difference of all was the ride. On the original equipment 19in tyres the 1Ms ride was at best hard, at worst pretty awful, and even when I switched to a set of Pilot Supersports the situation was improved but hardly eradicated.

On its new 18in winter rubber, however, the 1Ms ride has improved beyond recognition. And its steering has got lighter and sweeter, too. The whole car feels as if its been unlocked somehow, and now that the secrets out Im not sure Im ever going back (to 19in tyres and the bouncy-bouncy ride that goes with them).

As to whether the winter tyres are actually any better at performing their primary role ie providing better traction, grip and braking performance when the temperatures drop into low single digit degrees Ive got absolutely no idea, Im afraid, because down south where I live the conditions have been rather peachy of late. Which does make something of a mockery of the whole do we really need winter tyres in the UK debate.

Fair enough, if you are heroic enough to live in the Outer Hebrides then a 4x4 fitted with chains and winches and flagons of anti-freeze (to drink) are entirely appropriate. But for the rest of us this winter has proved, thus far, that winter tyres are actually a bit of a ruse. Which makes the discovery of how much better a 1M behaves on thinner, taller profile, smaller, but less sexy-looking rubber merely an ironic side issue overall.

It does prove once and for all, however, that style now rules over function when it to comes to car design because no sane BMW engineer would ever agree to sign off a 1M on 19in tyres when it drives so much better on 18ins. Unless the designers and the marketing people insisted upon it, of course, which is exactly how it happens nowadays. Even at BMW GmbH."


Hmmm.. this really could be an issue of switching from Michelins to Brand X. I would not be surprised to find that Michelin Supersports and the OE PS2 have a similar ride...

I would be a little more convinced if he had used another brand of 19s on the car.. or even experience with another set of 18s.

Keep us apprised on your decision and opinions..... I actually may be able to tell you myself... thinking of replacing my contis with a dedicated autocross tire.. just not sure which I would rather a-x with.. 18s or 19s .
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      03-08-2012, 11:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
just not sure which I would rather a-x with.. 18s or 19s .
Yea, that's a fair question. I'd put my money pretty heavily on the 18s for the following reasons:

Generally, when I can't change gearing, I inform tire OD by the speed in gear (2nd) for the courses I run (65-70 mph). With the 1M's wheelspin issues there is no real advantage to go shorter, however, so I'd want to stick with something relatively tall.

After gearing I generally look at the issues with the car I'm trying to correct, be it turn in, precision, etc. With the 1M the issue clearly seems wheelspin and oversteer.

I'd make the argument that taller sidewalls have advantages putting power down in general. Obviously construction has an awful lot to do with it, but a taller sidewall is softer by 10-15% per every 5 points of sidewall height (so a 265/40/18 will be ~14% softer than our 265/35/19s). The softer sidewall allows more flex, bad for precision but good for putting power down and less abrupt breakaway, two areas where the 1M needs help. Lower mass and rotating inertia are bonuses. Consider that many race cars deliberately engineer for taller sidewalls to put power down- a GT3 cup car uses a 9.7 cm sidewall while a more powerful RSR uses a taller 12.7 cm sidewall to help put power down. Obviously drag cars make use of the concept too (with tires engineered for the purpose, but still).

I run a set of 17s as well as 18s (front) and 19s (rear) on my 911, BTW, so I have some back to back experience. I generally think the 17s are the better solution for the car, though of course it's a special case. Given that I can't get the same types of tires on both rims I can't do an apples to apples, but the 17s are far more progressive in breakaway with any tires I've used, which seems to support the theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Hmmm.. this really could be an issue of switching from Michelins to Brand X. I would not be surprised to find that Michelin Supersports and the OE PS2 have a similar ride...
Having had both on the same car, I can say the PSS doesn't have as stiff a sidewall as the PS2, but it's still stiffer than something like a Goodyear F1 Asymmetric or Continental. So I agree you could get some of the feel of an 18 like he's talking about with a different tire, but all else being equal I'd rather use the PSS, and the soft sidewalls do tend to encourage pinch-flats. What continentals did you AX on, and how did they change the feel?
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      03-11-2012, 08:53 AM   #11
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Yea, the forgelines are very good- I've got a set of 18s and 19s for my other car and can recommend them.
Sweet! Thanks for posting your baby
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      03-11-2012, 08:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
So, I would have agreed with this once, but I'm planning to get a set of 18s to test with street rubber (PSS). I'll probably convert the 19s to Hoosiers for A stock.

What changed my mind was the following article written by Steve Sutcliffe of CAR magazine- he's got a long term test 1M. BTW, Steve's not your ordinary hack. He's the guy that went within a half second of a pro driver in his first outing in an F1 car, much respect:


Anyway, he wrote the article below, which made me re-think and want to test the 18s on my car. Yes most suggest you give up on looks, but... I'm looking for a good set of 18s to find out.

Winter tyres: not just great in winter

Took the precaution of having some winter tyres fitted to the BMW 1M just before Christmas, and although I was somewhat disappointed to discover how puny the car looked what with the new 18in rims and 235 tyres not even half filling its huge wheelarches I was nothing short of amazed at how different it felt to drive; by how much better it felt on the road.

And the biggest difference of all was the ride. On the original equipment 19in tyres the 1Ms ride was at best hard, at worst pretty awful, and even when I switched to a set of Pilot Supersports the situation was improved but hardly eradicated.

On its new 18in winter rubber, however, the 1Ms ride has improved beyond recognition. And its steering has got lighter and sweeter, too. The whole car feels as if its been unlocked somehow, and now that the secrets out Im not sure Im ever going back (to 19in tyres and the bouncy-bouncy ride that goes with them).

As to whether the winter tyres are actually any better at performing their primary role ie providing better traction, grip and braking performance when the temperatures drop into low single digit degrees Ive got absolutely no idea, Im afraid, because down south where I live the conditions have been rather peachy of late. Which does make something of a mockery of the whole do we really need winter tyres in the UK debate.

Fair enough, if you are heroic enough to live in the Outer Hebrides then a 4x4 fitted with chains and winches and flagons of anti-freeze (to drink) are entirely appropriate. But for the rest of us this winter has proved, thus far, that winter tyres are actually a bit of a ruse. Which makes the discovery of how much better a 1M behaves on thinner, taller profile, smaller, but less sexy-looking rubber merely an ironic side issue overall.

It does prove once and for all, however, that style now rules over function when it to comes to car design because no sane BMW engineer would ever agree to sign off a 1M on 19in tyres when it drives so much better on 18ins. Unless the designers and the marketing people insisted upon it, of course, which is exactly how it happens nowadays. Even at BMW GmbH."
I agree on the article, same feeling. Got 18's now 235 wide, which made me sad at some point, but all the advantages are correct, therefore willing to go to those forgeline wheels which I can use both on the public roads and the track with tyres like advan 08, federal 595 rs-r etc... Also there is a price of tyres to be considered (which is not the most important considering the price of wheel set but still ). There is always an issue with availability and road quality. If you get your tyre somehow damagedm buying 19" without a set sometimes becomes a problems unless you buy at least too.
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      03-23-2012, 06:23 PM   #13
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So I'm going to do a little testing on this 18 vs 19 thing.

I just mounted a set of Pilot Super Sports in stock sizes on the 19" rims. Already I can feel an improvement vs the PS2s- less abrupt breakaway, better ride, more grip. Considering I'm still wearing the mold release off I'm again impressed with this tire.

I also have a set of 18s in the car, stock M3 sizes, with new Hankook R-S3s in stock M3 sizes. This should be an even stickier, softer sidewall configuration. I know it's not apples to apples with the different tire types, but I'm curious to see how they compare.

I was going to run them both back to back at the autocross tomorrow, but they are predicting 1" of rain and a high in the mid 50s, meaning I doubt the R-S3s would stand a chance vs the PSS.
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      03-23-2012, 07:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB View Post
So I'm going to do a little testing on this 18 vs 19 thing.

I just mounted a set of Pilot Super Sports in stock sizes on the 19" rims. Already I can feel an improvement vs the PS2s- less abrupt breakaway, better ride, more grip. Considering I'm still wearing the mold release off I'm again impressed with this tire.

I also have a set of 18s in the car, stock M3 sizes, with new Hankook R-S3s in stock M3 sizes. This should be an even stickier, softer sidewall configuration. I know it's not apples to apples with the different tire types, but I'm curious to see how they compare.

I was going to run them both back to back at the autocross tomorrow, but they are predicting 1" of rain and a high in the mid 50s, meaning I doubt the R-S3s would stand a chance vs the PSS.
Your experience is in the same line with mine with the PSS, just impressive tire but I also think that the real definitive solution could be 18 with PSS. 19s are still making it hard for the tire and for the rest of the car especially for people who live in places that road conditions are very far from perfect.

What size you think would be ideal for the 18s? I am feeling that the rears could use as large as possible to put the power down better.
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      03-24-2012, 02:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpiligrim View Post
Thanks Fundahl!
I do keep looking though it's just not out there ...yet any suggestions by anyone?
You take a look at volk re30's? http://www.rays-msc.com/wheels/index.cgi?d=77

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      03-25-2012, 07:21 AM   #16
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2011 1M  [4.60]
19's will give you a few issues unless you want to go with the streched tire look:






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      03-25-2012, 09:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
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What size you think would be ideal for the 18s? I am feeling that the rears could use as large as possible to put the power down better.
Depends what you're after. For dry performance wider would certainly be stickier, though I suspect feel and precision (turn in, etc) will suffer a little, and breakaway over the limit will become slightly more abrupt. For the street I went with stock sizes to maximize feel and drive-ability. If I was competing (autocross, etc) in the dry I'd max out the tire width.
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      03-25-2012, 02:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Depends what you're after. For dry performance wider would certainly be stickier, though I suspect feel and precision (turn in, etc) will suffer a little, and breakaway over the limit will become slightly more abrupt. For the street I went with stock sizes to maximize feel and drive-ability. If I was competing (autocross, etc) in the dry I'd max out the tire width.
Since I am not a track addict and use my car as a DD, stock M3 sizes make perfect sense to me, I am gonna check what exactly were the tire and rim sizes for a stock M3, I guess 245/40 and 265/40 in 18s, I am not sure from memory if there is PSS available at that size, hope it is, can't imagine any better tire for the 1M unless the person just uses the car exclusively in competition and so, then they might be a little short of perfect.

A question comes to mind that when switching to 18s if there is anything to do with the suspension setting? Since the car is calibrated only for 19s from the factory, there is a distant possibility that there can be some minor issues but then the recommended winter packages were 18s, so maybe nothing to worry about.

Please post your impressions with the 18s especialy if that will be with the PSS set.
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      03-25-2012, 07:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
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19's will give you a few issues unless you want to go with the streched tire look:






please post more pics of your wheels those Advans looks amazing
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      03-25-2012, 07:46 PM   #20
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if that 1M had the fitment on the ground i would be in love....
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      03-25-2012, 07:57 PM   #21
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if that 1M had the fitment on the ground i would be in love....
I was just thinking the same thing.
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      03-26-2012, 08:18 PM   #22
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Thanks very nice!
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