04-01-2012, 03:20 PM | #1 |
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1M 18" wheels and Hankook R-S3 initial review
I swapped out my 19" wheels with Pilot Super Sport tires for a set of OEM M3 wheels with 245/40/18 and 265/40/18 Hankook R-S3s a couple days ago. My intention was to use the R-S3s as summer (and autocross) street wheels and tires, then the PSS as "winter" (I live in California, so by winter I mean rain). What I've learned so far has me re-considering that plan.
The bad: These tires have zero grip in the wet or cold. I've been driving R compounds occasionally as my street tires off and on for 15 years now (Yoko 032Rs, Toyo RA-1s, even Kumho V-710s) so I'm pretty used to tires that need some heat to work. These are very much like an R compound in that respect, but probably worse. On cool 50F mornings these will comfortably spin the RPMs off the dial in 1 and 2nd easily and even 3rd if you try, and that's in a straight line, in the dry... On cool (50-60F) days on the street it's difficult to get and keep enough heat in the tires to get them to work, even when you're trying. Wet: We had a cold, wet autocross yesterday, 50F and rain. Last week I was within a second of my friend who took TTOD on the Pilot Super Sports. This week, similar conditions, I was over 6 seconds back, meaning I lost at least 5 seconds to these tires. That's 10% slower, and frankly it felt like more. It wasn't a matter of hydroplaning, the compound simply has no grip in the cold and wet whatsoever. The good: If you can get them warm, dry grip is great, as you'd expect. They don't seem to be particularly great at putting power down in a straight line, but cornering or cornering plus throttle is impressive even coming from the PSS. What was more interesting though was how much more talkative and toss-able the chassis became in all conditions. Even in the wet the car is far more controllable than the PS2s, this despite the fact that the PS2s have more wet grip. I tried autocrossing in the wet with the MDM on, off, etc, and eventually just drove it like a drift car- sideways everywhere, all the time. And despite some absolutely ridiculous slip-angles the car was always controllable to the point that I felt in no danger of spinning or hitting cones despite some very nervous looking corner workers. In the dry this control ability over the limit seems to carry over, though I haven't been able to test fully at ridiculous slip angles yet. More unexpected was how much more feedback the chassis gives with this wheel/ tire combo. With the 19s I'm used to limited warning before the rear breaks loose when exiting a corner under power. It may be very catch-able after it breaks away with the Pilot Super Sports, but judging how close you are to that breakaway isn't easy. With this combo, however, something interesting happens: as you roll into the power on corner exit you can clearly feel the car moving from understeer to oversteer before the tires let go. It is very perceptible that the back is slipping more that the front (or vice-versa) and you are carrying some slip angle before anything actually breaks away. This sensation gives you much more feedback from the car and frankly makes driving much more involving and enjoyable. Where the stock car is stuck, stuck, stuck until it's not, on these tires the car is moving around the whole time, even when it's not actually sliding around. I must say I really like that extra feedback, and combined with the way the car handles the bumps better (even vs the PSS, which is already better than the PS2) it makes driving my favorite back road significantly sweeter. One other surprising thing was turn-in; when warm they seemed to turn in slightly better than the PSS (though not as well as the PS2s), even with the 18" wheels vs 19s. Must be tire construction... So overall if it wasn't for the issues with the cold/ wet I'd happily drive these tires all the time. The extra feedback from the chassis is what's really compelling more that the grip. Unfortunately the issues with cooler temperatures and how bad they are in the wet make me unsure I can live with them day to day. I can see having nightmares about sprinklers wetting the roads, etc, that just aren't issues when running Pilot Super Sports. I currently doubt I'll get another set of these for street use. The interesting question here, however, is how much of the extra feedback from the chassis is due to the tires, and how much is due to the smaller 18" wheels? Would 18" wheels with Pilot Super Sports really be the best of both worlds for street rubber? That's certainly the question I'm currently asking. I'm intrigued, so I'm not yet sure how long I'll wait to find out...
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04-01-2012, 04:15 PM | #2 |
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Oh it would be great if you find out before us I seriously believe that the 1M will be in its best with SS on 18s, it just makes all the sense. It seems to be more difficult to find a good looking 18 wheel like the stock ones though.
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04-01-2012, 06:23 PM | #3 |
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Thinking I might try to pick up a set of those gunmetal 18s. I love the look of the 19s, but think I will enjoy the extra comfort with the 18s and tires will be marginally cheaper. Would love to see some pictures when you get a chance.
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04-01-2012, 09:10 PM | #4 |
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Grubby after the autocross, etc, I just walked outside and shot a quick one with the phone for you...
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04-01-2012, 09:42 PM | #5 |
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Looks great. I have always liked those wheels on and aw m3, looks outstanding on the aw 1m. I may look into a set of square arc-8s as an alternative to these.
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04-02-2012, 12:00 AM | #6 |
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Thanks for the write-up!
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04-02-2012, 12:32 PM | #7 |
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Are those 18" M3 wheels not staggered? I love the idea of that set up as well. That should allow for more tire options from Hoosiers on to fit. Please let me know the sizes and if any spacers or anything were needed or used.
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04-02-2012, 12:44 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
18x8.5 et29 and 18x9.5 et23 are the specs (did a quick google search). I know some m3 guys would make a square setup with the rears. Unless you get a really good local deal or something though it really doesn't make sense over an apex setup IMO. |
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04-02-2012, 12:50 PM | #9 | |
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04-02-2012, 04:04 PM | #10 |
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thanks for the data points... I had heard that the RS-3s were bad in the wet.... however... like you... I would like to have a set of autocross tires that I can MAKE it to the autocross with safely if it rains.. ugh every thing keeps coming up with the fact that I really need three sets of wheels... street.. track... autocross.. (sigh)
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04-02-2012, 04:47 PM | #11 |
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do you know what the style number is for the OEM 18" M3 wheels
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04-02-2012, 06:16 PM | #12 |
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219M I believe...
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04-04-2012, 09:08 PM | #13 |
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Perhaps wider wheels and tires will help in the traction problem you are experiencing. Is there a reason to use narrower wheels other than cost?
RS3 is a summer tire, ~50F and rain is not where it shines. In our experience RS3 requires much less heat to work than R-comps. On a warmer day there is no need to build heat into this tire at all. If you are tracking your car, RS3's will give you even more bite and click off quicker lap times when shaved. |
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04-04-2012, 10:02 PM | #14 | ||
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Quote:
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With a little more experience so far I'm finding 50F is downright ridiculously low grip, 70 is poor, 90 (surface temp) is getting good...
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04-21-2012, 06:21 AM | #15 |
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Hi ! For the same reasons, I'm also running (for street use) 18in M3 wheels on my 1M.
I got those 2nd-hand, so the PS2's on them are now 4 years old and must be replaced. Basing my choice on the tyre test in Evo magazine, I'll choose between Goodyear Eagle's and Hankook Ventus S1, who got best results together with Continental's CS3. See this link for the pics: http://forum.motorsport-passion.com/...-sa-grem-line/ |
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04-22-2012, 09:40 AM | #16 | |
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04-22-2012, 09:14 PM | #18 |
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Thanks, yep, still stock.
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04-22-2012, 10:14 PM | #19 |
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Great write up. I have RS3's on my car year round. These tires are very loud on the street.
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04-22-2012, 10:47 PM | #20 |
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Update on these tires in the dry: Last Saturday my friend and I went to another Porsche autocross with the 1M, and placed 2nd out of the door slammers. The car ahead was a well driven 2008 GT3 on Pilot Super Sports, and my stock 1M was actually .1 seconds faster on scratch time, just nicked a cone. Again the RS3s were very slippery on the first run when cold (ambient in the 60s), and my friend actually spun my car on the first corner because of this. When warm, though, they gripped well and have a great, progressive breakaway that lets you drive the car totally sideways all the time if you choose.
We had data in the car, but grip levels are always unrealistically low at this venue due to the poor pavement. I can say I feel they must be slightly stickier than the PSS in these conditions, as I don't feel we could have been quicker than the GT3 car/ driver combination without a grip advantage.
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Last edited by Pete_vB; 04-23-2012 at 07:27 AM.. |
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04-22-2012, 11:53 PM | #21 |
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I'm far from an experienced driver but your write up resonates because I too have found that the 1M on stock 19" PS2s will bite you hard with little warning before the rear breaks loose. In that regard I miss my WRX's handling which was progressive and relatively predictable.
The $1 x 10^7 question on my mind is whether 18" PSS would be the magic bullet for street use +/- trackdays... |
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05-07-2012, 08:22 AM | #22 |
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I find the RS3's track quite a bit compered to the PS2's. Any slight groove in the road and they follow it. Hopefully after they are worn in a bit this will diminish.
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