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09-13-2012, 12:35 AM | #1 |
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Autocross: First Mod?
Hi All,
Just did my first autocross this past weekend (Got 1st place in Class and 2nd place overall for "Novice" WOO!!!) and i am HOOKED! Up-to this point i have done nothing to improve the handling of my 1er, only the power - In light of my new addiction i now want to make my car purpose built to Autocross while still being my DD. With that - I just bought a new set of Wheels/Tires 225's in front and 255's in back to get rid of my stock RFT's and help stick to the road a bit better. What would be the suggestion for my first mod to help the car handle better when im out Auto-xing... Or in what order would you piece together the suspension and with which parts to build the best platform on our cars to Auto-x. I was thinking - DUH - Coilovers are your first mod, but as i read through all these threads, i am not so sure any more.... and if Coilovers are the first mod.... WHICH ONES??? Sorry for the long post - and thank you in advance for all of your help!!!
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09-13-2012, 01:59 AM | #3 | |
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Front sway bar is generally a mod that all clubs allow to run in a low class and not compete with people that have totally tricked out their rides. or... Tires! Direzza star specs, Bridgestone RE-11's, or Yoko AD08's! |
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09-13-2012, 03:46 AM | #4 |
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Hankook RS-3 tires is the best for their price! for coilover, kw v3 is good, if you have the money, kw club sport is even better; however, they are 2 way adjustable, so you need to learn how to set up your shock. moreover, I think LSD is better choice to improve the handling.
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09-13-2012, 04:23 AM | #5 | |
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$1500 for non adjustable? Ugh |
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09-13-2012, 07:43 AM | #6 | |
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First best thing you can do is get a square setup on tires vs the staggered setup you have now. Add in real camber plates and you're on a really good start. You'd be amazed how much those two things will improve the handling of the car.
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09-13-2012, 01:21 PM | #7 | |||
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Go to Mighnight Oil Motorsports on Miramar (tell them Andre sent you) or Oceanside Motorspots and ask them to do an aligment. A proper "go-fast" alignment will do wonders for turn-in. Step 1: Light weight wheels & sticky tires!!! Either go 17" (cheaper/faster) with Kosei K1 wheels and 235 NT-01's or Hankook RS-3. Or go 18" Apex EC-7 or ARC-8 with 235/245 RS-3's or Dunlop Star Specs. A square setup is much preferred and also reduces cost since you can rotate tires back<->front and make them last a bit longer. If you don't want to switch wheels just yet or have a second set of wheels, just get Dunlop Star Specs or Michelin PSS tires. They work well for auto-x and can still be daily driven without problems. Step 2: Camber plates Just adding camber plates will allow you to run more negative camber up front which really helps with turn-in. Step 3a: Springs If you don't want to do coil-overs right away, go with springs first. Step 3b: Coilovers Not really all that necessary at first. Quote:
That said, camber plates and decent rubber make a huge difference on our cars. They're also quick & easy upgrades that don't break the bank. Go for it! If I'm not running in TM next event, your biggest competition will be in a N55 135i with just camber plates, springs & good tires. I think you'll need to find 2-3 seconds if you want to beat him. If I am running in TM and don't get FTD, you'll have more work to do Hope to see you in October! Find me and say Hi! If you have any more questions, I'll be glad to help you out. |
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09-13-2012, 07:25 PM | #8 |
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Please look at what is allowed in each class and decide what class would make sense for you. Based off you winning your class with a 100% stock car I assume you are in SCCA and D stock so I am writing this with the SCCA in mind.
In stock classes you can change wheels (if within 5 mm offset of stock and same size as original stock wheels), any tires including r comps, front sway bar, shocks, and break pads and fluid. So, if you want to stay stock I would do an alignment and shocks. Hold off on r-comps for at least season as it would be beneficial to learn to feel your car and your mistakes where r comps will hide errors. You can also dd street tires. Most of the national winners on street tires were on Dunlop Star Specs. Nationally integras have owned this class for a while. For Street Turing Ultimate you can only have street tires but for the most part any suspension mod as long as you don't change mounting points or replace rubber parts with metal ones. All exhaust mods as long as you have one cat I think. Intakes and tunes that don't change boost are okay. I am pretty sure you can do roll cages, harneses and racing seats. I race in STU and am competitive locally with my mods but not nationally. I have very nice coilovers, the front m3 bits, camber plates, and lightweight wheels with as much rubber as I can fit without rubbing. I would advise against kw unless you go up to KW Clubsports and for that much you have better options in my opinion. The KW 1, 2, and 3 all have progressive springs which are made more for the street than the track. While square tires is an easy way to give you a more neutral balance they will decrease grip. You are probably better off dialing out understeer in other ways and getting a bigger rear wheels. I don't wear through my tires unevenly side to side so it does not save money to rotate other then the smaller tires being cheaper. If you don't have camber plates plan or chewing through front tires at an alarming rate as they will roll over the edges and you may get camber sheer. I may not win nationally but I am building my car how I want it. I suggest you do the same. In that case I recommend decent tires, shocks or coilovers if you can afford them, camber plates, and as much seat time as you can get. If you want it to be easy to rotate the back of the car then maybe a square set up makes sense for you, just be aware you are not getting 1000 points with it. Make sure to focus on what you want and not nessisarily what will cut the time because you are going to enjoy your car not to win a key chain.
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2011 BMW 135i DCT M Sport, black sapphire metallic,Coral red tint, black line tail lights, back grils, BMW Performance spoiler, Apex ARC8, 235/265 Dunlop ZIIs, Ohlins coilovers w/ Swift springs, M3 front bits, Whiteline rear sub frame bushings, Vorshlag camber plates, Stoptech pads, stud conversion, spacers, bms intake
Last edited by Clovef; 09-13-2012 at 10:26 PM.. Reason: I am a dumb jerk so I often need some editing. Sorry |
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09-13-2012, 08:59 PM | #9 | |||||
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He raced with the BMW CCA. Quote:
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Anyway, while I like a good discussion, let's not confuse the OP. My recommendation remains the same: Alignment, tires, camber plates is all you need initially. That's a great setup to have fun. |
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09-13-2012, 10:04 PM | #10 | |
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Andre - I defiantly value your opinion, i was eyeballing your car the whole time and yours is the car i plan to chase down in our class as soon as possible - but with an 8 second gap in our times, i have a lot of work to do!!! I was hoping you would chime in actually because i am very curious as to what set-up you have (Saw the write-up in Farhen Affairs) I will most certainly be registering for the October Event as soon as it opens, so i will see you there for sure if not before... I might have to ask you to meet for a coffee or something to talk me through all of this and get some driving tips!! Regarding Class - I am currently only planning on doing the BMWCCA Auto-X events for now and given my tune, etc i am in the Turbo-Modified class... no restrictions in this class as far as i am aware regarding TIre compund, susp. mods, etc... So alot of great info has lead to MORE questions... The Wheels/Tires i have are what they are - A square set-up is not likely to happen before i choose to do other things to the car. I dont think i mentioned i got Hankook Ventus V12's so hopefully they will work out a little better than the stock tires. ---- If not, would i be better off getting another set of tires for Auto-X only and putting them on my Stock 264's and using the ones i just ordered for street driving only? Maybe keep running the stock tires? Alignment - Do i do this Pre-Camber plate install or post? I won a GC to Midnight Oil so i will defiantly use them - What should i be asking for? Camber PLates - What exactly do they do and why is there such heavy emphasis on these? Do i only get these for the front or is there rear camber plates also? Is there a recommended brand/set-up? Springs - Of course, not being one who will play around very much with the Rebound/Compression YET, springs are much more appealing given the cost - Which ones/Rates would be best knowing i intend to Auto-X as much as possible and take the car out to the mountains on a bi-weekly basis - Also with the springs, should i buy new shocks at the same time to pair them with?? (I dont care to lower the car at all if i can avoid it - an inch is ok but much more, ehhhhh) Lastly - What about everything i have read about getting M3 Bushings, Arms, Sway Bars, etc...??? Is that stuff best kept for WAY down the line or just not as impactful as the things mentioned above?? Again - I really appreciate you guys lending your time and experience to help me out! Everyone was a noob with this stuff at one point or another right??
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09-13-2012, 10:44 PM | #11 | |||||||
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This will do 2 things: 1. Your car will turn-in much quicker and handle better 2. Your tires will wear more evenly and you won't ruin the shoulders on your tires. It quite transforms the handling of the car. Mine are from TC Kline (who've just released a new model that looks interesting): http://www.tcklineracing.com/webdocs...Details811.cfm But most here recommend Ground Control: http://www.ground-control-store.com/.../II=842/CA=206 Quote:
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I'm very happy to help out. |
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09-13-2012, 10:53 PM | #12 | |
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Perfect - I definatly still have time to change my tires... The set isnt due in until 9/27 so i can change the order... I will see what else the company offers. Camber plates - DONE - I saw the vorshlag ones, looked very easy to adjust, but if the ones above come recommended, i will have them before the next event What about springs... Eibach Pro kit, H&R Super Sport?? When i change the springs should i also change the shocks??
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09-13-2012, 11:10 PM | #13 | |||
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Hankook RS-3 Michelin Pilot Super Sport Those would be my top 3 recommendations. Either one is good. Quote:
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Maybe save your money for now and don't get shocks and get coil-overs later? |
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09-15-2012, 12:10 AM | #14 |
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Ok - so in light of the advice I have the following:
New rims and tires on the way, staggered. Hankooks v12 New springs: eibach pro kit Camber plates: Ground Control I think the October Autox it should be a lot better! That'll be it for now - until I get a few more under y belt an some solid seat time with that set up... So with the camber plates - what should I run when I'm driving daily? I know go all the way to -3deg at the events, but what on the street??
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09-15-2012, 12:51 AM | #15 | ||
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I thought you could still change that?
Oh well - better than nothing Quote:
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My tires show no abnormal wear on the street. In fact, my tires wear more evenly now. And this way you don't have to keep adjusting back/forth. |
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09-15-2012, 02:02 AM | #16 |
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So i am clear.... Camber plate are only for the front... right???
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09-15-2012, 08:47 AM | #17 |
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