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01-21-2013, 02:48 PM | #133 | |
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The indy I go to won't install parts from ECS/pelician/etc. No OEM, only OE (as in from a BMW dealer like getbmwparts or bmwpartsstore) because he's tired of having issues with the parts and having his labor blamed for it. They're cheaper for a reason. Sometime they work flawlessly and you get a good deal. Other times there's an issue.
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01-21-2013, 03:27 PM | #134 | ||
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the definition of a factory second is a lower quality part that is sold at a lower price to recoup costs what i wrote: "they're 100% guaranteed not 'factory seconds', they're parts that otherwise would have been installed on an M3, no cherry picking, no defects." (at least no more defects than their could be in purchasing directly from BMW) read through the thread, TRW and all the other vendors, as mentioned, guaranteed they were fully up to spec not defective items, as they do not cherry pick... They're off the same production line destined for M3's, just not actually installed in them.. if you read the posts containing emails, you'll find if they willingly sell defective products without stating that they are in fact factory seconds, that's somewhat illegal.. as there are certain safety issues, and lawsuits that would ensue They're sold OEM for profit reasons, not loss-mitigation.. they can guarantee to sell X for M3's straight to BMW, that's good guaranteed profits.. but if you could also sell Y to the aftermarket, and repairs.. It's poor business not to.. Especially as you're probably making a larger profit per sale on the directly sold components. yeah, the occasional arm could be defective but so could one installed on an M3, or sold directly by BMW. Add to that, the TRW items are fully warranted like anything else. Quote:
that's just like saying 'nah i wouldn't purchase the struts from bilstein because they're OEM not OEBMW" when you know it would be perfect from bilstein... or 'nah i wouldn't purchase the calipers and rotors directly from brembo because theyre OEM' they're properly silly statements to make lol Last edited by flinchy; 01-21-2013 at 03:46 PM.. |
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01-22-2013, 10:27 AM | #135 | |
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Believe whatever makes you happy. If they worked out, then you won the OEM parts lottery this round and got a good deal.
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01-22-2013, 04:06 PM | #136 | |
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the only reason the control arms have the ///M logo is they're cast, it's not economical to have 2 casts, one for aftermarket (which TRW does LOT of in general btw).. one for OE. So if bilstein sells them not-rejected, but has to scratch out the BMW logos because it's not legal for them to sell with it? :/.. If bilstein sold defective units (you know, not meeting TUV approval etc.) they would be in SO much trouble, and it's the same deal with TRW. if they were defective by law there has to be a 'for offroad use only' or something to that effect. i don't understand why anyone would think the same companies products would potentially suck simply because you're buying them directly, rather than a third party (which is worse to me actually) as far as i know ECS hasn't had any returns yet? and they've sold a solid volume of them. It's really not hard to believe that OEM = the same parts as OEBMW or OEMB or anything like that.. without a sacrifice in quality if you're talking an aftermarket OEM, i could understand where the hesitation would come from (say.. meyle or lemforder or something, while they DO make OE parts for other cars/makes/models, they don't for BMW so FITMENT could be an issue for example) |
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01-22-2013, 04:53 PM | #137 | |
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The OE (BMW) vs OEM (aftermarket) argument is something I brought up pages ago. There is a difference. What that difference is... we will not know until these parts get some miles on them and wear out or fail.
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Generally speaking... Lemforder is of better quality than say Meyle. But a BMW (dealer) sold suspension part is of better quality. EVEN if it is made by one of those companies! Like I said... there IS a difference. I really do not know what the difference is with these TRW parts. I am curious to see someone run them for say 40K miles and report back!
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01-22-2013, 05:12 PM | #138 |
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I installed these recently. No complaints. Time will tell if they are as good quality as OE.
I think the seconds argument is plausible but there are other plausible explanations example BMW negotiated exclusivity with TRW for x number of years. How long have these TRW arms been available? I think the bottom line is nobody really knows except TRW. |
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01-22-2013, 05:34 PM | #139 |
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e92 M3 has been built since July, 2006 acording to RealOEM.com
And... BMW.
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01-22-2013, 10:50 PM | #140 |
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I don't know for sure if these parts are factory seconds, but I'm fairly certain they are the same part.
I did some searches on TRW and they are legit company http://www.trw.com/who_we_are TRW Automotive is among the world's largest automotive suppliers and is one of the top financial performers in the industry, with 2011 sales of $16.2 billion. We are passionate about delivering the safety that everyone deserves. supplies more than 40 major vehicle manufacturers and 250 nameplates holds leading positions in all of its primary product categories I don't think a company raking in $16.2 billion in a single year is going to shaft us with factory seconds. Just my 5 cents. |
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01-23-2013, 12:05 AM | #141 | |
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Meyle HD makes.. i believe sway bars or tie rods or something?.. another company may make the same part, but i would prefer the OE BMW supplier, unless i could guarantee the other manufacturing to be superior. Last edited by flinchy; 01-23-2013 at 12:12 AM.. |
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01-24-2013, 07:34 PM | #143 |
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01-24-2013, 09:46 PM | #145 |
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There are kits out there that now have "with hardware supplied". I'm assuming this has new nuts and bolts for all new suspension install. But yeh, a vendor did tell me I can just reuse the nuts and bolts holding the stock parts in.
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01-25-2013, 09:48 AM | #146 | |
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The missing nut is for the headlight height regulator linkage - and not a stressed suspension component like a control arm or tension rod.
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01-27-2013, 06:52 AM | #147 | |
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01-31-2013, 05:10 PM | #148 |
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I've had the front control arms in for a few days now. I'm not sure how to describe it accurately but there is a marginal improvement. I think I'll be able to appreciate it on the track, on the street it's very hard to tell. The workshop did an alignment as well and now I'm scrubbing in the fronts, but it sounds like it's coming from the inner guard area.
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01-31-2013, 09:37 PM | #149 | |
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02-01-2013, 10:09 AM | #150 | |
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02-02-2013, 12:30 AM | #151 |
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02-04-2013, 07:46 PM | #152 | ||
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BMW86...what was your alignment adjusted to? I feel a huge difference but also requested my alignment to be adjusted to -1.5 camber in the front and rear...which is exactly what I got. I've only run it around town thus far but I use every opportunity I get to rail a corner (2nd gear @ about 4K)...the car definitely dives in to the corners and tracks better from a front end perspective. The rear feels like it dances a bit but actually hooks up pretty well. Still need to do rear bushings and shocks/struts, but it was a pretty big improvement and I don't get much if any understeer...or I haven't pushed it far enough yet. Still progressively increasing my aggressiveness with it. Oh, and by the way..about the factory seconds debate. Another variable that hasn't been discussed yet...production efficiency. There are only a limited number of M3s produced...if you're a manufacturer and you spend the time to set your line for a particular product...does it make more sense build and sell 5000 units, or 10,000 units? If BMW didn't sign a rock solid exclusivity agreement....I'm building 10,000 if there is demand...simple economics.
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02-04-2013, 08:41 PM | #153 | ||
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02-04-2013, 10:14 PM | #154 | |
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No fibration issues here and I've done a few onramp logs doing 30-110-70 in pretty short distances. My setup has been getting progressively better with each upgrade. While the E93 FSB helped level things out a bit, I'd say this was a bigger improvement. Whether or not the same could be achieved by dialing in the negative camber with the stock arms (if you can go that negative), I don't know as I never tried. Pretty cheap upgrade though if DIY'd.
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